Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Excellent idea! I’ll just shop around the marketplace of smartphone ecosystems and choose one that best suits my needs!

Oh, there’s only two? And iOS suits my needs better than Android? But I need to use a different app to communicate in a modernized fashion with friends who don’t use the same phone brand? Well that sucks — guess I’m gonna complain about it!

Seriously, why not just say “give up everything you like about iOS and switch to Android if you have this one complaint”? It’s that simple!
exactlyyyyy. the fanboys have no ability to engage with nuance. if you criticize any aspect of their favorite 3 trillion dollar corporate behemoth, they get mad and insist you switch platforms. i think they’re afraid if we complain too much tim apple will take the nice phone away :’(
 
Samsung, xiaomi, huawei, oppo, etc. yep only two. You are certainly welcome to use any platform independent ecosystem you choose. Google comes to mind. There may be more.
Platform, not brand. If you use an iPhone, you need to use a non-default messaging app if you want to use not-90s-era tech to message Android users.

It’s a legitimate wishlist item. I am not denying that. I am against government regulating a closed ecosystem as other than excessive regulation I don’t think anything good can come of it.
Where do you see this going? If governments around the world force Apple into allowing sideloading and cross-platform iMessage, what’s next?
 
Apple cares about privacy? I have confirmed Apple is using the microphone, camera and imessage on my iphone XR and iphone 12 to sell ads. I was talking about disney cruises with my wife in the car in a store parking lot and sure enough when I come home i see disney cruises play on youtube ads on the apple tv. I was texing my wife about changing car insurance plans at home and sure enough I’m getting youtube ads about car insurance. I was drinking beer and just happened to point my phone camera over a beer can and sure enough several youtube ads about beer companies. Tested in my home and car with everything off except my iphone. Removing facebook and youtube and other apps I thought were spying on me and came to the conclusion that Apple has a back door in the software where they can secretly record what you say, type or see with the camera and then sells the info. It’s either that or I have telepathic powers.
I guess it’s time for you to start your tarot card reading business because what you’re describing is simply not happening, especially not by Apple sharing recordings with Google, of all things.

Do a Google search, and you’ll see many people who think the same thing and studies done on this phenomenon.

The truth is that you (and I, for that matter) are just boringly predictable, and there’s a lot of other tracking in play (if you don’t take precautions).

From a technical level, it wouldn’t even make sense to record everyone all the time, even if you think Apple would be willing to share your recordings with the likes of Google.

The bandwidth and computing power needed to go through billions of people’s daily recordings sourced from microphones and cameras in the hopes of finding that one nugget of consumerism information that then happens to match with an ad in an ad network’s ad library is beyond imagination even when you’d have trillions of dollars to burn on it.
Not to mention the chunky batteries needed to sustain all that.

What is super easy, however, is to look at your demographic cohorts (e.g., age, gender, location), mix it perhaps with some of your purchasing habits, some in-app tracking if you haven’t turned off the ATT, and combine it with the search history of the people you’ve been with and crank out a couple of ads you’re most likely to be receptive to.

In a way your examples prove how easily your behavior is predicted, if you’re willing to at the proper order of cause and effect.

You’re interested in Disney cruises and would you look at that, Google knows it too so they’re showing you an ad for Disney cruises.

You’re a beer drinker and Google figured that out too so you get beer ads.

You’re a car owner and haven’t searched for car insurances in a while, so Google thought it would be a great idea to tempt you with an ad for car insurance.

I couldn’t help but notice that other than Disney cruises (arguably the most well known cruise company), your beer ads weren’t for the specific beer company whose beverage you were enjoying and your car insurance ads weren’t specific to the company you were talking about.

You’d think if they’d go through the expensive effort of monitoring you 24/7 they’d at least bother to advertise the exact company you’re talking about each time (or not bother advertising it to you at all since you’re already on the cusp of spending your hard earned moneys on those products).
 
Is it just me or did anyone else get a ton of iMessage spam over the last few days while this was live? I'm glad Apple shut it down, for that reason alone.
I haven't received a one, though I do get them occasionally at other times.
 
….

The result in the US is that most people are still used to using their stock messaging app to communicate, and the result elsewhere is that people barely touch their stock messaging app other than to retrieve their 2FA token.

Google saw this and introduced their version of iMessage on Android that they conveniently market as "RCS," people now think that is what RCS is.

Giving SMS’s security problems kind of ridiculous the a security action , ‘retrieve 2 step ( not really 2FA ) token’ , is the “useful” value for SMS . ( NIST recommended to stop using SMS as a transport over 10 s years ago ; 2016 ) .


The core root cause problem here is that all the cellular service carriers need to move on. SMS is mostly a happens-to-work hack itself.

There SHOULD be a common conduit for 2step tokens that isn’t based on flakey transport .



Google running the RCS backend for USA ( and other) is what is pragmatically moving RCS forwards . The standard sat there for years with only at best quirky adoption where it mattered.

1G and 2G and 3G cells systems being retired …. SMS should have been dumped at the same time.
 
Last edited:
exactlyyyyy. the fanboys have no ability to engage with nuance. if you criticize any aspect of their favorite 3 trillion dollar corporate behemoth, they get mad and insist you switch platforms. i think they’re afraid if we complain too much tim apple will take the nice phone away :’(
I can’t speak for others, but as far as I’m concerned, you can criticize all you want.

The problem is, however, that with any relationship, if something is such a dealbreaker to you to the extent that you keep complaining about it, it might be time to end the relationship and seek a new one.

There’s no use in trying to make someone change something, especially if the terms were made clear before you initiated the relationship.
Similarly, the notion that you can get everything you want the way you want it is simply unrealistic.

I get that you and others like you want their cake and eat it, too, but that’s often an unrealistic wish.
In the real world, there are always trade-offs.

And I think it’s fair for people to say that they’re sick of hearing you complain about something when there’s an excellent alternative available for you to switch to.

To me, all of the above is very nuanced, and the “want my cake and eat it too” approach is void of nuance, but I'm sure you’ll see it differently.
 
This was all a PR move for Beeper.

Now everybody knows who they are, what their app does, and that they are talented enough to Reverse engineer the biggest company in the world.

I cannot reasonably think they thought the hack would last.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Harthag
I guess it’s time for you to start your tarot card reading business because what you’re describing is simply not happening, especially not by Apple sharing recordings with Google, of all things.

Do a Google search, and you’ll see many people who think the same thing and studies done on this phenomenon.

The truth is that you (and I, for that matter) are just boringly predictable, and there’s a lot of other tracking in play (if you don’t take precautions).

From a technical level, it wouldn’t even make sense to record everyone all the time, even if you think Apple would be willing to share your recordings with the likes of Google.

The bandwidth and computing power needed to go through billions of people’s daily recordings sourced from microphones and cameras in the hopes of finding that one nugget of consumerism information that then happens to match with an ad in an ad network’s ad library is beyond imagination even when you’d have trillions of dollars to burn on it.
Not to mention the chunky batteries needed to sustain all that.

What is super easy, however, is to look at your demographic cohorts (e.g., age, gender, location), mix it perhaps with some of your purchasing habits, some in-app tracking if you haven’t turned off the ATT, and combine it with the search history of the people you’ve been with and crank out a couple of ads you’re most likely to be receptive to.

In a way your examples prove how easily your behavior is predicted, if you’re willing to at the proper order of cause and effect.

You’re interested in Disney cruises and would you look at that, Google knows it too so they’re showing you an ad for Disney cruises.

You’re a beer drinker and Google figured that out too so you get beer ads.

You’re a car owner and haven’t searched for car insurances in a while, so Google thought it would be a great idea to tempt you with an ad for car insurance.

I couldn’t help but notice that other than Disney cruises (arguably the most well known cruise company), your beer ads weren’t for the specific beer company whose beverage you were enjoying and your car insurance ads weren’t specific to the company you were talking about.

You’d think if they’d go through the expensive effort of monitoring you 24/7 they’d at least bother to advertise the exact company you’re talking about each time (or not bother advertising it to you at all since you’re already on the cusp of spending your hard earned moneys on those products).

THIS happens to me all the time, I can probably point to an example almost every single day. I will be conversing with a patient, family member, friend, acquaintance, etc and a few hours afterwards to the next day, sure enough, I will see lots of ads or news articles outlining what we were talking about, quite specifically. I'm talking stuff that is often very specific and at times really out of left field and not something that could really be extrapolated from whatever user portfolio of myself that exists out there. I see it happen equally when using an iPhone or Android phone, so can't really blame either of them. I have checked a thousand times for microphone access, advertising opt outs, and anything else that might be the culprit.

I get that it's total conspiracy theory-land, no argument there, but at the same time I cannot explain how this happens at all. I totally get that the algorithms data collection uses are really specific and incredibly precise these days, but many of these things are just unexplainable as to how they would be associated with my profile because they are so far out of left field. Although I recognize my experience as most likely conspiracy theory, sometimes conspiracy theories are true. Haven't we seen a $*#& show of privacy abuses the past decade?
 
Giving SMS’s security problems kind of ridiculous the a security action , ‘retrieve 2 step ( not really 2FA ) token’ , is the “useful” value for SMS . ( NIST recommended to stop using SMS as a transport over 10 s years ago ; 2016 ) .


The core root cause problem here is that all the cellular service carriers need to move on. SMS is mostly a happens-to-work hack itself.

There SHOULD be a common conduit for 2step tokens that isn’t based on flakey transport .



Google running the RCS backend for USA ( and other) is what is pragmatically moving RCS forwards . The standard sat there for years with only at best quirky adoption where it mattered.
I'm not entirely sure what you’re trying to say, nor what the purpose of your reply is.

I'm not saying that 2FA via SMS is excellent; I'm just conveying the reality regarding how the stock messaging app is used overseas.

Other than that, I agree that the carriers who designed the RCS standard for them to implement in the first place should actually implement it as the natural evolution away from SMS/MMS.

As for Google’s proprietary RCS implementation, while it might be a pragmatic push towards RCS, it's also very handily a push for their monopoly on messaging (if only pesky Apple would be willing to hook iMessage into Google’s Jibe backend).
So you’ll excuse me if I can't find the world’s smallest violin because Google cannot pressure the only company stopping them from gaining a complete monopoly on messaging.
 
I didn't download this app but considered it because Apple after all these years still can't fix group messaging where a group member no longer has an iPhone. I've been off of an iPhone for months. I followed all of Apple's deactivations support documents, including on the iPhone and my MacBook Pro. I even erased my Messages in iCloud data. I still after months have several groups that were iMessage groups that people send messages to and I never receive them and neither does the group get any kind of notification that I'm not longer an active iMessage user. And those are the group messages I'm aware of.

At least once a week I try the deactivation page and it says my phone number is not in their system.
 
Last edited:
  • Wow
Reactions: josselinco
"Anticompetitive" in what way? Apple built and maintains a service that costs them money. They pay for it by selling other products and services. Have these clowns offered to pay Apple for the use of their servers? (That's not even getting into the security issues.)

No, but neither does apple offer the option for them to pay for the use of their servers. I’m sure they’d pay if apple offered that option to open up imessage to other platforms, but they don’t. They want imessage only for apple users.
 
THIS happens to me all the time, I can probably point to an example almost every single day. I will be conversing with a patient, family member, friend, acquaintance, etc and a few hours afterwards to the next day, sure enough, I will see lots of ads or news articles outlining what we were talking about, quite specifically. I'm talking stuff that is often very specific and at times really out of left field and not something that could really be extrapolated from whatever user portfolio of myself that exists out there. I see it happen equally when using an iPhone or Android phone, so can't really blame either of them. I have checked a thousand times for microphone access, advertising opt outs, and anything else that might be the culprit.

I get that it's total conspiracy theory-land, no argument there, but at the same time I cannot explain how this happens at all. I totally get that the algorithms data collection uses are really specific and incredibly precise these days, but many of these things are just unexplainable as to how they would be associated with my profile because they are so far out of left field. Although I recognize my experience as most likely conspiracy theory, sometimes conspiracy theories are true. Haven't we seen a $*#& show of privacy abuses the past decade?
I'm not faulting you for thinking this; hell I know how most of this works and have monitored network traffic from my iPhone to confirm only to find nothing, and even I sometimes catch myself wondering the same things because it also happens to a lesser degree to me, despite taking almost all the available precautions.

The truth is that they're just getting better and better at targeting, mixed with a little bit of coincidence here and there.

One of the more famous examples from a decade ago was how Target was (and still is) able to predict pregnancies based on nothing more than shopping habits.

Technology has since come a long way, and data is now more than ever correlated to target ads.

I myself sometimes get ads for things I’ve had on my mind but haven't even talked about with anyone.

So I can't blame anyone for thinking they're being spied on (they are, just not in the way they often think), but it's important to stay level-headed.
 
exactlyyyyy. the fanboys have no ability to engage with nuance. if you criticize any aspect of their favorite 3 trillion dollar corporate behemoth, they get mad and insist you switch platforms. i think they’re afraid if we complain too much tim apple will take the nice phone away :’(
And what of the critics? They criticize everything deserved or not. I mean good for apple shutting this down. I’m sure at some level this was criminal.
 
Instead Apple’s likely going to kick Beeper off the App Store, terminate the developer account, remote erase and brick the devices logged in with Apple ID associated either device and ban them from owning Apple device for life, and potentially turn on the KILL SWITCH to remotely delete the app from all the installed devices. (No refunds for paid users)

Basically, you break Apple’s rule, you pay the price by not only being banned from App Store, they ban you from ever owning Apple devices and ecosystem for life.

Does beeper even have an apple developer account to begin with? the apps they offer are only for android users, so they’d be in the google play store, not apple’s appstore.
 
This was all a PR move for Beeper.

Now everybody knows who they are, what their app does, and that they are talented enough to Reverse engineer the biggest company in the world.

I cannot reasonably think they thought the hack would last.
Nah. If that were the case, the app would've just been free from the getgo. Would've had way more installs that way. They legitimately thought they could build a business around a stolen API.
 
And rightfully so. No matter how you call it - reverse engineering, hacking, finding loopholes etc., at the end of the day basically that company steals an Apple service in order to gain profit.

Apple could charge for letting them do it legally or create an app of their own, but they don’t want to do that. It’s like they’re in a baseball game where they won’t pitch, they won’t catch and they won’t let anyone use the bat.
 
I guess it’s time for you to start your tarot card reading business because what you’re describing is simply not happening
oh brother 🤦‍♀️🙄
The truth is that… [I am]… boringly predictable
now this i agree with 👍

i don’t get the immediate condescension and dismissal of this theory that some people do on the grounds that housing everyone on earth’s 24/7 recordings would take up too much space and bandwidth. as if that’s the only way this form of data harvesting could be done. i don’t believe this is happening to the scale often described, i don’t think companies are literally recording and analyzing every conversation, but i don’t doubt some degree of this is happening. it wouldn’t be that hard. and you absolutely don’t know it’s not, you’ve read the same articles (that could have been paid for by a tech company using this practice) as everyone else, so dismissing this is completely speculative on your part.

you’re not an insider, this confidence you feel is completely unfounded. you don’t know what’s going on at all. but if you need to feel like you do to make sense of the world, then that’s okay, but maybe rather than doing the nauseatingly typical thing with the dismissal and condescension, you could acknowledge to yourself that you don’t actually know, but you have your opinions you feel are sound.

but let’s be real, tarot and not trusting technological advances has been around for a very long time so obviously there’s something there that resonates with people. you’re not above it.
 
I can’t speak for others, but as far as I’m concerned, you can criticize all you want.

The problem is, however, that with any relationship, if something is such a dealbreaker to you to the extent that you keep complaining about it, it might be time to end the relationship and seek a new one.

There’s no use in trying to make someone change something, especially if the terms were made clear before you initiated the relationship.
Similarly, the notion that you can get everything you want the way you want it is simply unrealistic.

I get that you and others like you want their cake and eat it, too, but that’s often an unrealistic wish.
In the real world, there are always trade-offs.

And I think it’s fair for people to say that they’re sick of hearing you complain about something when there’s an excellent alternative available for you to switch to.

To me, all of the above is very nuanced, and the “want my cake and eat it too” approach is void of nuance, but I'm sure you’ll see it differently.
i guess if you want to define things by those terms then fine, but i’m honestly not following you here. and i’m not trying to be antagonistic, i just don’t get the idea. i would ask how this is wanting your cake and eating it too, but honestly, we’re already lost in the weeds and i don’t really see the point.
 
You tell me and let’s be exact and discuss if the vendor customized the operating system in any way for their own ecosystem.
hahaha wow look at how much you need to dictate the terms of the discussion to defend your argument in order for it to be valid at all.

it’s almost like you’re wrong 🤯
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.