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Apple Confirms Tattoos Can Interfere With Apple Watch
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So you're saying this is not a real issue but rather Apple chose not to spend the money to make it work? What's your source for that?
I'm assuming that a sensor that can compensate for tattoo ink will cost more. If you have information that it will cost the same or less and work as well, post it and I'll revise my assumption.
Apple will replace the sensor in future models if they think it is worth it. If they don't replace the sensor, we will know that selling to people with wrist tattoos is not a good business strategy in terms of ROI.
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My source is Apple's acknowledgement of the issue, and the fact that they did not indicate they are working tirelessly to make the sensor work with tattoos.
Why would I have that information? You're the one making the claims about cost. I assumed you had that information since you said it would cost more. It's not like I claimed it would cost less or be the same. I made no claims at all.
Bolded: Is there some rational behind this thought? There's no straight line logic behind it. Apple could also not replace the sensor because none are available that solves the issue. That has nothing to do with business strategy or ROI.
I think our conversation is focusing too much on tattoos. Besides, it's not like wrist tattoo'd people can't buy the watch. The current sensor also has problems with motion as well. I would think this is a bigger issue than the tattoo since rhythmic movement is part of a lot of exercises. An improved sensor is in Apple's best interest.
that is true but the percentage of people affected is tiny and Apple can and will live with it. what this isn't is any kind of -gate. The main point here is that tattoos are an entirely elective procedure. bad for people with heavy tattoos on their wrists but anybody getting them bears full responsibility if what they choose to do with their bodies interferes with some consumer gadget. Another poster mentioned that tattoos can interfere with MRI. does it mean that this is MRI machines fault and they are badly designed? no. of course people with tattoos should be warned about possible MRI dangers but that's all.
likewise the only thing that Apple needs to do here is warn people about this issue which they have now done.
That's not how it works. It is a problem for Apple. It's a user experience issue and one that can impact sales. Your comparison is not a good one at all.
I have a tattoo. Not in the area in question.
. I guess I'm ignorant to the FACT that there are metals apparently in certain inks. Why the hell would I cry my eyes out about placing metals on my skin and a device not work as advertised for MY OWN irregularity. OMG the people here crying like "I'm entitled to everything in life as a result of MY preferences"....
Nowhere does it say that the watch doesn't "work".
If somebody cares SO much about their lives then I'd suggest you think twice about doucing your body in mass with INK METALS on your skin ESPECIALLY IN AREAS WHERE THE SKIN ITSELF IS SO THIN -- Start there when crying about feeling discriminated against - not to mention the FACT that the people I know that have full arm tattoos go to GREAT LENGTHS to conceal them in order to get certain levels of EMPLOYMENT and face a SELF IMPOSED DISCRIMINATION AS IT IS-- #!
In reading that TATTOO REMOVAL statistically is up 440% on average is indicative of a problem that bears NO responsibility of Apples. That's the fault of TRENDS.
Here we are arguing about a certain small micro segment of world society being shut out of A FUNCTION of a device BECAUSE of their own CHOICES -- and -- that a company that's falling over themselves publicly trying to be as INCLUSIVE as it can be is inadvertently being assailed by a totally elective procedure to place inks based with metals that nets a result of potential inaccuracies of that function. ???
Seriously. Call out the lawyers. Get going on the class action. Call in the ACLU. This is so discriminatory #
Society in general should be waking up today far more worried that the STABILITY of our societies are at risk because of discriminatory actions against people of color that weren't able to CHOOSE to alter skin color just to avoid discrimination and as we are seeing in the media everyday lately -- DEATH.
Get some perspective people. RELAX. Most of YOU with tattoos in that area will be seeking removal of those tattoos at some point in your life and most of you will be expecting that society in some way help YOU pay for it. Bet me.
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Exactly... while they are temporarily sorta... in a fad kinda way... becoming 'mainstream', tats are a choice and people with enough ink in the right places to cause issues are in the minority.
Apple's offering a full refund, or alternatively, they have suggested workarounds if you're in that position.
S*x for people with tats but they are like any other consumable. For example Nest is useless to me because I don't have a thermostat (I have an IR remote for my aircon unit.) This doesn't mean that Nest is a piece of junk, nor does it create an 'aircongate' scenario. All it means is that Nest won't work for me (so instead... I bought a raspberry Pi, plugged a USB IR transmitter into it and made my own app that allows me to automate my aircon using iCal on my iPhone 6.)
People make their choices with consumables. Apple is not responsible for the ink that Smoky Joe's tattoo parlour uses. It's simply incompatible with Apple watches... so people who purchase Smoky Joe's ink can't use Apple Watches. Unlucky!
No product suits everybody and when you sell milions of devices, SOMEBODY's gonna have a situation where they want the product but it doesn't work for their special situation. Some people are allergic to peanuts... this does not mean that it's reasonable for them to demand that the peanut companies create a new peanut that they are not allergic to. It means they are better off buying almonds... or some other nut that they are not allergic to.
Edit - Android/Windows devices have been out for 2-3 years now (if not longer) and apparently NOBODY noticed this issue. Why is it always APPLE alone that faces the scrutiny? I'm starting to think that it's either sabotage from other companies or Apple create their own 'gate' scandals with every product so that they make headlines. It's getting boring... Apple releases a product and we get the same headlines:
1) It sold amazingly well and had massive crowds of people lining up.
2) Some innocent dude breaks one and it's not his fault... he's outraged and takes it to the press. Apple then come back with an explanation about how strong it is and despite blanket coverage of the 1 breakage, there's lots of articles about how amazing the engineering is, and how the breakage probably involved some tampering.
3) Some guy sniffs a chance to get famous and makes videos of himself intentionally breaking the device (the device will inevitably get put through the 'will it blend' test amongst other ridiculous tests which would clearly void your warranty and demonstrate a special kind of stupidity.) These all hit front pages of newspapers and get millions of hits though.
4) Enter the next 'innocent dude' who just wants a feature to work, but it doesn't work for him under his situation. That closed/obscure situation suddenly becomes the gold standard for testing all other devices and everybody instantly becomes an expert about how devices SHOULD perform in those circumstances.
5) Apple haters write a bunch of stories about how they've been lifelong Apple fans but this device is the last straw.
6) Sales/profits go through the roof, for the majority the device works as expected (with ~1 to 5% recalls due to manufacturing errors) and life goes on.
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Apologies. Nothing in your quote, beyond the 3 words I bolded, has anything to do with what I wrote. Never mentioned any -gate. Never even mentioned tattoos. I simply disagreed with the assertion that it's not a problem for Apple. My statement is relevant to any business selling to consumers. If the goal is to sell your product to as many consumers as possible, anything that can possibly impede the sale is a problem for the business. Whether it's wrist tattoos and rhythmic motion in your watch, low MPG in your SUV, inconsistent flow in your fountain pen, or toner streaking from your printer, it's still a problem for the business. I didn't say a big problem. Just problem. Whether that problem is worthy of remedy is up to the business.
I'm really not sure when I said Apple would make wrist tattoos a priority. I just said it's a problem.
I have a tattoo. Not in the area in question.
OMG the people here crying like "I'm entitled to everything in life as a result of MY preferences"....
Nowhere does it say that the watch doesn't "work".
If somebody cares SO much about their lives then I'd suggest you think twice about doucing your body in mass with INK METALS on your skin ESPECIALLY IN AREAS WHERE THE SKIN ITSELF IS SO THIN -- Start there when crying about feeling discriminated against - not to mention the FACT that the people I know that have full arm tattoos go to GREAT LENGTHS to conceal them in order to get certain levels of EMPLOYMENT and face a SELF IMPOSED DISCRIMINATION AS IT IS-- #!
In reading that TATTOO REMOVAL statistically is up 440% on average is indicative of a problem that bears NO responsibility of Apples. That's the fault of TRENDS.
Here we are arguing about a certain small micro segment of world society being shut out of A FUNCTION of a device BECAUSE of their own CHOICES -- and -- that a company that's falling over themselves publicly trying to be as INCLUSIVE as it can be is inadvertently being assailed by a totally elective procedure to place inks based with metals that nets a result of potential inaccuracies of that function. ???
Seriously. Call out the lawyers. Get going on the class action. Call in the ACLU. This is so discriminatory #
Society in general should be waking up today far more worried that the STABILITY of our societies are at risk because of discriminatory actions against people of color that weren't able to CHOOSE to alter skin color just to avoid discrimination and as we are seeing in the media everyday lately -- DEATH.
Get some perspective people. RELAX. Most of YOU with tattoos in that area will be seeking removal of those tattoos at some point in your life and most of you will be expecting that society in some way help YOU pay for it. Bet me.
Wow. You're telling others to get some perspective and relax? The irony of your post is not lost on me.
fwiw, you may need to get a new keyboard. Seems the CAPS LOCK function is misbehaving badly.
I think the poster mis-typed that but it makes sense to me. The tattoo in that analogy is not the side effect, ineffectiveness is the side effect, the tattoo you could say is a "condition affecting the efficacy" or something like that. But overall it still works.
For a specific example along the same lines, people who take Lipitor for high cholesterol shouldn't drink grapefruit juice because it affects the efficacy of the drug. It's their choice whether they want to drink it but they need to live with the consequences, or choose another pill that does a similar thing but lets them drink their grapefruit juice (in this analogy that other drug might be a Samsung, LG, Pebble, etc).
IDK, it seems like it's such a ridiculous minority of people with sleeve tattoos. I don't know if it's worth researching how to get around tattoos just so you can market to the few thousand people with sleeve tattoos.
Numbers I found for tattoos... they don't mention sleeve tattoos specifically so it's hard to tell how many people have them. Based on 21K parlors and a few people with sleeve tattoos per parlor, I would expect the number to be in the low hundreds of thousands. Perhaps 0.01% of all of the internet connected people in the world.
http://www.statisticbrain.com/tattoo-statistics/
I should probably amend that quote. The tattoo issue has obfuscated the actual problem. Sleeves aren't an issue per se. It's just the area of the wrist where the sensor reads. The real issue (and I'm not saying it's a big issue, just an issue) is the sensor has some "blind spots" with some inks and certain motion. When I say Apple will be looking to improve the sensor, I mean overall and not just for ink detection. My quote doesn't reflect that. Apologies. Even without the tattoo/motion problem I think Apple will be looking to improve the sensors because their competition will be looking to do the exact same thing.
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Thanks for coming to my rescue, but Gasu E. was right. My quote was a hot mess of commas and misdirection. You are right about my intent though. The meaning you got was the meaning I meant to convey. Kudos for deciphering my gibberish.
no. stop it.
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drugs with side effects for a low minority of people is a "User Experience" issue, and will impact sales for that specific drug. not much at all, but that's the point of making anything for 'the general public'.. "generally" most people can use it.
i fail to see how you argued his point in any way.
Apple can surely estimate how many sales will be lost because people with certain kinds of tattoes on the wrist where they would wear a watch can't get some sensors working.
They can also estimate how much effort it would take to make the sensors work, and they can estimate what other improvements they could make with the same effort, which might get them more sales.
That's something that any clever company would do: Not just look at whether something could improve sales, but whether something else could improve sales _more_ for the same investment.
That woman from down the road often goes shopping on a bad hair day without any makeup on, and nobody comments.
If Natalie Portman gets spotted with her mascara smudged then its all over the gossip mags for a week.
Apple have created a huge media profile, and every product launch is treated as headline news. That's great for sales, but the karmic flipside of this is that every minor fault also makes headline news.
Well, if must you draw it on your body, use henna or something that isn't going to be with you to the grave.
You assume that it can be somehow "accounted for" - How do you measure someone's pulse by shining light through their skin if they've injected opaque ink into their skin that blocks the light?
Meanwhile - I'll have to try an iWatch sometime and see how it deals with my atrial fibrillation (my inflatable-cuff BP/pulse meter says in the small print that it may be unreliable with arrhythmia - I just have to take readings until I get one that sounds plausible, not very scientific*). That could affect a hell of a lot more people than tattoos (and maybe one of many reasons they dropped things like blood pressure readings).
(*I'm sure the professional ones the doctor's use don't have this problem... yes, I'm sure. Absolutely sure. They'd have thought of that....)
I can think of so many things more important that Apple should be working on. I would assume people who get tattoos are aware of the potential side effects and deal with them.
I believe you've said it very well.
The fact that Apple either failed to consider those with Tattos, or deliberately decided to ignore these potential customers is a bit concerning.
I've been a huge Apple supporter and shareholder for years. I don't have tattoos, yet I respect those who do. It's the freedom of choice and progressive freedom I celebrate.
Once again, we witness Apples rather severe case of hypocrisy at work.
Brilliant, admired, frequently quoted Steve Jobs, had all kinds of popular slogans about taking risks, challenging the norm, remaining open minded etc. Very little if any of that thinking remains at Apple today.
Having built, along with Steve Wozniak and others, this amazing world class company, they drew in a huge group of avid followers that helped Apple grow to massive proportions. A very impressive accomplishment.
Fast forward to today, Apples begun to lose its edge. Conservative, old, and almost stodgy, they're sole focus on being a mainstream, conventional corporation, with profits over customers strategy is becoming harder and harder for them to hide.
Tattoos have been around for centuries. A very rich history of artistic expression. With modern inks, open minded youths and a resurgence of tattoos as socially acceptable expression, Apples ignorance is stifling.
Are there really people calling for Apple's blood about this? I see a lot of comments from people saying "people need to stop being so scandalized about this" or "deal with it" or whatnot... but are people actually that upset about it? Or are people from the opposite camp jumping to extremes?
Personally, I think it's something that people should be aware of ahead of time if they want to purchase the Watch. I do not keep up with these things enough to know what method the heart rate is acquired (now I do!). A small disclaimer in the heart rate section would be perfectly acceptable. And it appears that has been added on the Apple website, so all's well.. right?
I really don't think anyone is completely up in arms or preparing to boycott Apple because this wasn't immediately disclosed, I just think that it would be nice to know going into the purchase.
I just don't think it warrants people calling people "trash" or "fanboys" or any other names. Can't we just all be friends?
Personally, I think it's something that people should be aware of ahead of time if they want to purchase the Watch. I do not keep up with these things enough to know what method the heart rate is acquired (now I do!). A small disclaimer in the heart rate section would be perfectly acceptable. And it appears that has been added on the Apple website, so all's well.. right?
I really don't think anyone is completely up in arms or preparing to boycott Apple because this wasn't immediately disclosed, I just think that it would be nice to know going into the purchase.
I just don't think it warrants people calling people "trash" or "fanboys" or any other names. Can't we just all be friends?