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Exactly. But the problem is that's not what we get from people like PR5Owner. It's the same tired "Apple is overpriced, Macs don't play games/Blu-Ray, I can build a system cheaper, there aren't enough choices with Apple, etc" argument, which is irrelevant, because all the information is plainly obvious to anyone who's purchased a computer in the last 12 years. We know. We get it. You don't like Macs. That's fine. Don't buy one then, and be happy.

It's the friggin' same crap every thread.
It's nonetheless rather frustrating to be eternally stuck in a holding pattern for a Mac that Apple will never make though.

I want to give Apple my money but they don't want it. It gets old after awhile.
 
Windows 7, might be the first decent OS MS has produced since Windows 2000, that perhaps comes close to OS X in usability and aesthetics. But all of that remains to be seen. The most interesting part of all this, is that MS has nearly all their eggs in the Windows 7 basket. If that isn't up to par, that is - if it isn't ridiculously good (even MS' best work never is), then it's open season. It'll be anyone's game after that.

Doesn't matter how bad it is, it'll be installed on 99.9% of PCs by default, so it will make loads of money for Microsoft and perpetuate the status quo, causing untold misery for millions and hindering the technological progress of mankind in the process.

Not that I mind... one of my best clients is an IT security company. Go Microsoft, build another OS as good as your last one!
 
I love the new ads.

I do too - the "Laptop Hunters" series is clever and entertaining.


and your on here pretending like apple is the second comming of christ, your a fanboy!

I'm glad that you didn't use a similar misspelling for "coming"....


It's nonetheless rather frustrating to be eternally stuck in a holding pattern for a Mac that Apple will never make though.

Don't worry, Steve is gone and passed the baton to a bean counter. A mini-tower will be out shortly.
 
Microsoft has done more for Mankind than Apple - Microsoft created the Internet

... so it will make loads of money for Microsoft and perpetuate the status quo, causing untold misery for millions and hindering the technological progress of mankind in the process.

(...wait while the fanbois start foaming at the mouth because of the title...)

Seriously.

Although TBL invented the web in the early 90's, it was basically a curiousity used by a few people with incompatible servers and browsers running on the 2^12 different versions of UNIX and other proprietary systems (like NeXT) on the nascent Internet.

When Windows 95 launched with native TCP/IP networking, suddenly there were millions and millions of users with compatible (still proprietary rather than standard, but compatible) browsers. e-Commerce was possible - a business could reach most computer users in their homes without lots of specialized coding.

Apple would have closed its doors if Microsoft had not created Internet Explorer for the MAC.
 
I can, easily. Of course I don't expect you to be able to say that, because you're a Mac fanboy and your fanboyism doesn't allow you to say that. I think the "You find it, you keep it" ads promotes PCs strengths very well (although, they still have a few things they can hit that would really take aim at Apple). They don't try to bash Apple. They don't write off the computers as being bad, but overpriced or not capable of doing what they want at a reasonable price.

Take the first "You find it, you keep it" ad, where they start off with a 1000 dollar price point IIRC. That ad really targetted Apple's price. Apple really doesn't offer a laptop under 1000 bucks (ok, the Macbook, but after taxes, it's over 1000 bucks, and even before taxes, it's 1 dollar below the price point). You may not like that they criticized Apple's price, but it certainly is a valid point to bring up.

The second ad with the price point of 1500 bucks emphasized the variety of options you get with PCs. You have a multitude of sizes, from under 10" with netbooks to over 17" with PCs. There are many PC laptops that offer more power at a lower price than what Apple offers. ASUS offers a 15.4" notebook with a 9650M GT and I think a 2.5 Ghz C2D processor as well as 4 gigs of RAM at around 1300 USD, or for the same price, you can get all the same specs with a 9800M GS. For 900 bucks you can get a 2.0 Ghz C2D processor, 4 gigs of RAM and a 9650M GT, or for 1000 bucks you can get the same computer with a 2.4 Ghz C2D processor. And it's not like ASUS is a bad brand. If they were, would Apple use them as a ODM? It's that type of variety that I think the Windows commercial emphasized at that price point.

The third size was 2000 bucks IIRC, and again, the subject of price came up.

I really think the ads are capitalizing on the current economic situation, and unlike the Apple comercials, they're not stooping to Apple's level of running a smear campaign (which is what their commercials are). They do concede that their computers look nice. They don't try and say that Apple makes bad computers (because they don't).

My whole problem with Apple's campaign is that much of it is perpetuating a fear of viruses and that Mac OS X is flawless. The truth is, if you're smart, you won't get Viruses. All it takes is safe browsing (don't go to sites you don't trust) and running anti-virus software. There are many anti-virus suites that don't slow your computer up and there are quite a few that are free. Often times, people who get viruses aren't a victim of security holes and vulnerabilities, but rather a victim of themselves. They simply don't know any better.

Another part of their campaign is them slandering Vista, when in truth, it's not a bad OS and that, contrary to what Apple presents, the "problem" with Vista wasn't MS's fault, but rather hardware vendors slacking off and not providing drivers for Vista. The UAC was another source of criticism, and it's one of the few claims that Apple does have a valid point in making. It certainly can get annoying, but it's pretty easy to disable if you're one who doesn't want annoyances.

They also claim that Windows is a victim of frequent crashes and freezes. Honestly, the last time I think I had a BSOD was a year ago and it turned out to be a Nvidia driver for my network adapter caused the crash. I was alerted that there was an update available as well. And before that, I can't recall of any. Many of the claims weren't the fault of Microsoft, but rather the PC manufacturers who put a bunch of pre-loaded crap on the computer, but currently, that's gotten much better, and it's all really easy to remove. The Apple commercial that brought up the money it cost to "fix" Vista was really a bunch of bull crap, as there was nothing wrong with Vista. The same question could be asked about the money it took to fix Leopard, which still doesn't work right for me on my MBP because of Apple's crap drivers.



Which is the same rhetoric we've been hearing since day one. Nothing new there, and of course, they blow it out of proportion.



Adds to the cost? You mean like free Anti-virus software that's easily found on the Internet (Avast, AVG, Avira, Win-Clam AV, and I'm sure there are a few others). The best spyware utility that I know of is spybot, which is free (and the only "spyware" that I ever get detected is tracing cookies, which affect all operating systems).



This was probably the best commercial. This is one of the fews I didn't hate. It actually promoted something they offer and told the viewers what they do better than MS.

However, Microsoft does offer a lot of decent programs via their Live services that are good for the price (free). But I personally don't use any of that junk like iPhoto, Garageband, ect. In fact, I don't use any of the iLife suite, but that's just me personally.



Hm... I've never had a computer freeze in the past or so years... Again, just more FUD from Apple's FUD department. Really, it shouldn't be a problem anymore for ANY OS now that they've ditched Coopertive multi-tasking (relies on the programs to give other programs controls, which can easily cause poorly programmed programs to hang). With Pre-emptive multi-tasking and its refinement, it's really not a problem any more. Early OSes that used Pre-emptive OSes weren't very good at it (like Windows 95), but it was still better than Coopertive multi-tasking.

I just put my troll armor on to come in and say I agree 100%. I was going to type out a similar post until I read yours. And before someone starts calling me a fanboy I'll squash that one. I'm just stepping back and looking at the big picture. I'm not drinking anybody's koolaid here, unlike a lot of you.
 
But that is the experience of many consumers watching these ads. Malware has ruined many a non tech-nerd's day.

Well, we just had that recent OS X trojan. I personally can not WAIT for the day OS X becomes more popular and starts having the same malware issues. It's already starting folks. Maybe it will knock some people off their high horse.
 
Well exactly. The Mac ads are merely reinforcing public perception of Windows, which has been the same for well over a decade:

Windows is virus-ridden
Windows is unreliable
Windows crashes
Windows causes grief and frustration
It's a pain in the ass at work, and at home, too

Much of that is still as true today as it was years ago (Vista.) But its truth doesn't matter, it's what everyone has grown to believe based on MS' horrible reputation. Bad reputations are quite tough to live down, and can taint your long-term prospects. It's like luggage, you don't really ever get rid of it.

Except.... its not. Windows is only virus-ridden if you're a complete idiot, if people were educated on smart internet practices it would cut down on a lot of virus issues. Actually, the biggest weakness in ANY OS is the user, and that is how a lot of virii get in place.

Windows is just as reliable as any other OS. I go for months without rebooting on Windows just as I do on my OS X and Linux boxes, no issues, no crashes, no grief and frustration.
 
Except.... its not. Windows is only virus-ridden if you're a complete idiot, if people were educated on smart internet practices it would cut down on a lot of virus issues. Actually, the biggest weakness in ANY OS is the user, and that is how a lot of virii get in place.

Windows is just as reliable as any other OS. I go for months without rebooting on Windows just as I do on my OS X and Linux boxes, no issues, no crashes, no grief and frustration.

Most people *are* idiots - not because they're necessarily stupid when it comes to tech, but because of busy lives, not enough time to learn, etc. Well-egnineered technology (consuemr technology) shouldn't have steep learning curves. In fact, the more idiot-proof it is, the better. Now, having said that, clicking on obviously dubious links shoud be clear to anyone, even Mac users. But alas . . .

So yes, people shold be more open to education about tech, but at the same time, if tech doesn't follow the KISS principle to some degree, it certainly doesn't help.
 
Well we do the same thing. Who's right? Who's wrong? Well, that's up to everyone else to decide. All I know is this:

We don't run or need to run any antivirus software
We don't need to do any maintenance to the OS to keep it from grinding to a halt
We have a much more stable system
No compatibility issues
Best in class software
Better looking software in terms of design/UI integration
Unix
Better-designed OS - certainly much cleaner code
Better looking OS
etc., etc . . . the list goes on and on

I wouldn't trade in my Mac for anything. I even hang on to my old Macs from years ago. They have quite a resale value, anyway. It's really all about the way you feel about the tools you use on a daily basis. I actiually LIKE doing work on my Mac. It's that simple.

The only reason you don't have to run AV software is because you're not popular enough yet, but don't worry, if you have your way, your day is coming. For the record, I don't run any AV software on Windows, of course I'm intelligent enough to realize when something isn't something I should be opening.

I don't do any maintenance except for occasional clean ups of my crap, and updates. The same as I do on my OS X box.

OS X isn't any more stable than Vista in any way that I have seen. Both stay up until I reboot them, often for several weeks or a few months on end.

Compatibility issues? None here, a few ancient programs won't run, then again, a few ancient Mac programs won't run on OS X either.

Better looking? blah blah blah, it is all personal preference. There are pros and cons to OS X as well as Windows as far as UI goes.

Unix? Great. I don't do much that requires Unix on my main machines, I tend to use Linux servers for that crap.

Better-designed? Cleaner code? You've worked for both companies and see what is ticking under the hood? DIDN'T THINK SO.

Better looking? You mentioned the same thing twice... are you running out of FUD?

Resale value is driven by Apple due to the high cost to buy a new one. Same reason why a Mercedes has a higher resale value than a Toyota. Doesn't mean much for quality/etc, just means it costs more. If you LIKE doing work on your Mac, enjoy it. But don't think you're some great person "educating" people on the problems with Windows when you don't even use it yourself.
 
Most people *are* idiots - not because they're necessarily stupid when it comes to tech, but because of busy lives, not enough time to learn, etc. Well-egnineered technology (consuemr technology) shouldn't have steep learning curves. In fact, the more idiot-proof it is, the better. Now, having said that, clicking on obviously dubious links shoud be clear to anyone, even Mac users. But alas . . .

So yes, people shold be more open to education about tech, but at the same time, if tech doesn't follow the KISS principle to some degree, it certainly doesn't help.

Yes, the user is the weakest link. The same link that is present on Macs and PCs. So blaming Windows for the malware doesn't even make sense.
 
Windows 7, might be the first decent OS MS has produced since Windows 2000, that perhaps comes close to OS X in usability and aesthetics. But all of that remains to be seen. The most interesting part of all this, is that MS has nearly all their eggs in the Windows 7 basket. If that isn't up to par, that is - if it isn't ridiculously good (even MS' best work never is), then it's open season. It'll be anyone's game after that.

It is ridiculously good. I've never used a beta OS that was this stable and this well put together. Vista's betas were a nightmare compared to 7. I think Microsoft finally got it right with this new OS, and I look forward to both the RC next month and the final release. I think that having Snow Leopard and Windows 7 on the same machine will make me quite happy, computer-wise.
 
And some people prefer "PCs." And, get this, Vista isn't as bad as the majority of you think. Now I wonder why some people can't accept that and move on?

Where do you want us to move to? This is a Mac site, we come here because we like Macs.

Well, we just had that recent OS X trojan. I personally can not WAIT for the day OS X becomes more popular and starts having the same malware issues. It's already starting folks. Maybe it will knock some people off their high horse.

You'll have a long wait; Apple's market share is unlikely to increase into double figures.

The only reason you don't have to run AV software is because you're not popular enough yet, but don't worry, if you have your way, your day is coming.

Only if Apple starts building boring boxes aimed at the corporate market. And then... well, they wouldn't be Apple, would they. So I sincerely hope they stay in their niche.

Resale value is driven by Apple due to the high cost to buy a new one. Same reason why a Mercedes has a higher resale value than a Toyota. Doesn't mean much for quality/etc, just means it costs more.

Here we go again with the same tired car analogies...
 
A pox upon the house of the next person who uses a car analogy!!!!
At least the next person who uses a German premium car in the analogy. How come there's never an American car involved? Hmm? Apple is an American company, after all. You're not ashamed of American cars, are you?

Hands off the Germans, they already have their own computer brand (Siemens), and stick to American cars manufactured in Asia. Here are some to choose from:

- Chevrolet Matiz

200px-Chevrolet_Matiz_Facelift_front.jpg


- Buick Excelle/Chevy Lacetti

250px-Chevrolet_Nubira_Kombi_Sweden_008.jpg


- Chinese Ford Focus

medium_2528470333_94aff3e60e_o.jpg


There. Pick your Mac.
 
It's nonetheless rather frustrating to be eternally stuck in a holding pattern for a Mac that Apple will never make though.

I want to give Apple my money but they don't want it. It gets old after awhile.

Well, I agree with that. If you do indeed want to use OS X, but your particular hardware need is unmet, I sympathize.

I've said before that a tower around the $1500 mark would do very well IMO, and I certainly don't oppose Apple making one.
 
The Mac vs PC debate can never be won by either side. Why? Because most arguments are subjective. However, there are certain facts that are true.

1. Malware is not a big problem on the Mac.
2. Macs require less set-up, configuration and maintenance than a Windows-PC and whatever is required is much easier on a Mac.
3. Macs run faster on the same hardware than Windows-PCs.

You can argue back and forth on UIs, software, hardware, ad nauseum, but most people who have used both systems can agree on those three points.

These are the points that Apple needs to hammer home to the masses. That's why these ads are so great. They keep hitting the same points over and over (in a clever way!) and soon, more and more people will get the idea.
 
On a side note. I'm elbow to elbow in the previous generation of Focus in the front. It's rather annoying. Unlike my my Hyundai Elantra.

I smile at the ignorance of the fanbois who bring up Hyundai as the "poster child" of cheap auto crap - like Hyundai is the "Yugo" of the day.

They obviously have not spent much time driving or looking at recent mid-range or above Hyundais - I have, and it really makes me wonder if I've thrown a lot of money away by buying European sports sedans....


3. Macs run faster on the same hardware than Windows-PCs.

Linky please - you can't make an absurd claim like that without a pointer to proof....

[touch the "Submit Reply" button with my index finger]
 
(...wait while the fanbois start foaming at the mouth because of the title...)

Seriously.

Although TBL invented the web in the early 90's, it was basically a curiousity used by a few people with incompatible servers and browsers running on the 2^12 different versions of UNIX and other proprietary systems (like NeXT) on the nascent Internet.

The only reason fanbois would start foaming at the mouth was because of your ridiculous ignorance and rewriting of history. The Internet standards in use today (DNS, SMTP, POP3 among others) were all written, standardised and in working order before Windows was even an idea in the back of Bill's head.

The Internet itself was close to 25 years old when TCP/IP finally shipped standard in Windows (which was 3.11 fyi, not 95).

All those proprietary Unix systems ? They were communicating with each other, through standard protocols. Microsoft is the one that tried to destroy the Internet with MSN back in the day and failed miserably. Vendor lock-in vs wide open network with documented protocols that are standard.
 
I smile at the ignorance of the fanbois who bring up Hyundai as the "poster child" of cheap auto crap - like Hyundai is the "Yugo" of the day.

They obviously have not spent much time driving or looking at recent mid-range or above Hyundais - I have, and it really makes me wonder if I've thrown a lot of money away by buying European sports sedans....

Sorry, I definitely have to disagree. When shopping for a car for my wife last year, we looked at $30,000 Hyundai sport utility vehicles, and they were crap. Creaky, plastic junk.

We bought a Toyota instead, and the fit and finish is definitely better. But enjoy the Hyundai; you're welcome to disagree.
 
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