Apple Criticized for 'Fundamentally Misguided' Approach to Stage Manager in iPadOS 16

[tobybrut]

Yes, the current gear is great — but it’s the same gear. I keep hoping to see Tim Cook’s successor come up on stage and show us something new. Something innovative. Something that changes how we do something. Something that makes us — “think differently”.

Something like Steve Jobs would do…

That day is coming. It's just slow getting here. Apple, in particular, is putting their eggs into the AR basket. Pretty soon, iPhone sales will plunge after they introduce Apple Glasses, which will start by pairing with an iPhone, but will eventually miniaturize enough to stand on its own. That is the day phones will die. Google, Samsung, and Meta are doing the same as well as other manufacturers. It takes a lot of time to come up with a revolutionary change. I would love to see that day come.

TV's will some day get micro-LED, which solves all the problems of brightness with OLEDs and we'll see a sea change in that industry.

Maybe Apple Car will do something revolutionary for the car industry where are cars are truly turning into rolling computers. I like watching videos of concept cars and some of them are just amazing with Level 4 or 5 self-driving and spacious cabins that resemble living rooms, complete with coffee tables and rotating seats so you can either look out at the simulated environment on the screens or face your passengers in the "back" seats. Reminds me of the Jetsons, which I used to watch when I was a kid.

Perhaps some day someone will also perfect data transmission via light instead of electricity that could be sold for consumer prices. That would totally eliminate heat problems. I wouldn't be surprised to see lots of ideas we, as consumers, have never even thought about, being worked on in the various labs of all the tech companies. But until someone produces something revolutionary, we'd have to settle for incremental.

 

[tobybrut]

Good grief. Would you have to do that continuous and every time? And why would you need it hidden behind another app that's useless. Just copy Android 12L and be done with.

I think Android 12L copied iPadOS. The task bar at the bottom is essentially the Mac/iPad dock and the multitasking is essentially iPadOS with only three apps instead of two in split view where one app takes up half the screen while the other two share half the screen. The fourth app floating in mid screen is essentially Quick Notes. I'm interested in trying it out.

I changed my mind about the Fold. I swore I'd never get a foldable phone, thinking I'd only get a large folding tablet that's at least 11". I decided to get a Z Fold 4 after all, but only because they offered $1000 trade-in on an old scratched up iPhone X that was just sitting in a drawer, plus some other incentives. I would never buy one at full price, but at more than 1/2 off, it's worth a try. I've been watching tons of Fold 4 videos and keep thinking that the Fold's multitasking looks just like the iPad's. I'm interested in finding out if that third app is worth it, taking up such a tiny space. I also can't imagine that many Android apps are compatible with Flex Mode.

BTW, it'd be worth picking up an iPhone X off of eBay for less than $200 and trading it in on one of those if you're interested in a folding phone. I already had one, but if something like that comes up in the future, that's what I'd do.

 

[Chriss_m]

It’s becoming more difficult to deny that Apple is a company in creative decline. Each new iteration of the iPhone brings less than the last, each iOS update more problems than solutions, and their outdated approach to working from home flies in the face of the norms of the tech sector and has cost the company high level execs and staff discontent.

A company that once set the standard now finds itself stuck in the past.

 

[spinedoc77]

I don't argue from a financial point of view. I couldn't care less if Apple makes another buck or two or doesn't. This is about what makes a good tablet. A hybrid is not a good laptop. Microsoft's repeated failures with hybrids should have warned them long ago their attempts were not getting them anywhere. Remember I also said that Surface Pros achieve their battery life by crippling their hardware. That makes it a poor laptop and horrendous tablet. I like the Surface Laptops. Those are nice machines. But the Surface Pros are trash.

It's not about cannibalizing hardware either. Apple's said over and over they don't care if they cannibalize themselves. They just don't want anyone else to do it. They cannibalize their sales all the time of other products. The iPhone wouldn't exist if they were afraid of cannibalizing iPod sales. They're working today on Apple Glass, which will end up cannibalizing iPhones. I've had a lot of experience with hybrids, and they're all bad. I don't want to see the iPad wrecked by a fool's attempt to make a hybrid.

The financial question IS what is paramount, that's what drives Apple and almost certainly why they wouldn't put out a MacOS tablet. But from a functional point of view there is nothing stopping them.

A hybrid is a great laptop, but again just my personal opinion and judging by the $2 billion+ sales MS has had (not even counting the other oems) a lot of other consumers share this opinion. Microsoft has NOT failed at anything, you keep bandying that about like its a fact, but it's just made up FUD when the numbers tell a much different story. Another point of FUD is the battery life, the Surface Pros get in the same vicinity of iPad battery life when used in similar fashion. The throttling on the Surface Pros doesn't diminish their every day functionality, I stress my Surface Pros hard and they don't slow down at all. Users regularly use heavies like Adobe Photoshop, Image editing, CAD, etc and there are no issues with the power, especially if you set your expectations correctly and purchase the right hardware, which may be a laptop with a dedicated GPU or a desktop. Again it's a matter of setting your expectations, but at least I can run the desktop versions of all that software on my tablet.

I disagree on the cannibalizing part, but I don't have any evidence to back that up, just my personal opinion. I'm not sure about your iPhone and iPod comment, the iPhone is the reason the iPod disappeared. I think you meant iPad, and that's a much different comparison. An iPhone is not going to replace an iPad or cannibalize its sales, so the comparison is moot (unless we're talking about a folding iPad, but that's another conversation). Apple Glass isn't going to be viable for mom and pop consumers for a LONG time, and even then the paradigm around it will need to catch up, think 10+ years easily where a lot of years will be spent coupling an iPhone with whatever AR Apple puts out. But again that's another conversation.

You know how much experience I think you have with hybrids? Squat. I think you just like to spread FUD because you have some odd white knight syndrome against the Surface Pro devices. Maybe you were jilted by customer support, maybe you dropped it on your toe, who knows. I say this because your lack of how they function, battery life, touch support, etc just seems so lacking or stuck at 10 years ago.

 

[spinedoc77]

I love Windows. I have 14 Windows PC's in my house right now. I used to run Windows servers. I have no issue with Windows PC's, having built well over 100 of them over my lifetime. Don't tell me what my motivations are. Windows doesn't suck. Windows hybrids suck. There's a huge difference.

Ok corrected, your only argument is that "Windows hybids suck."

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I'm not sure about your iPhone and iPod comment, the iPhone is the reason the iPod disappeared.

When speaking of products, what do you think cannibalizing means? Because, the iPhone cannibalized the iPod. People that might have bought iPods bought iPhones instead and Apple didn’t mind because it’s still a sale for them, just trading one product for another.

 

[DanVM]

No. An iPad can do everything it can do without a keyboard or pointing device. The same cannot be said of a laptop. And I don't agree. The Surface Pro is trash. The existence of Windows 11 is Microsoft's admission that their hybrids sucked as they take yet another failed stab at making a hybrid.

I wouldn't say that the Surface Pro is trash. I had a Surface Pro 4 and while it has it's issues, it was a nice device. I didn't notice any difference between my iPad and SP4 for browsing, social media and watching TV / movies. What I think is clear is that the iPad is a better tablet. But when you attach a keyboard, the Surface is a better device.

 

[DanVM]

It's not about cannibalizing hardware either. Apple's said over and over they don't care if they cannibalize themselves. They just don't want anyone else to do it. They cannibalize their sales all the time of other products. The iPhone wouldn't exist if they were afraid of cannibalizing iPod sales. They're working today on Apple Glass, which will end up cannibalizing iPhones. I've had a lot of experience with hybrids, and they're all bad. I don't want to see the iPad wrecked by a fool's attempt to make a hybrid.

Too late. Apple already made the iPad Pro a hybrid device. The iPad Pro have keyboard w/ trackpad, multitasking and support for external monitors. And as today, the iPad Pro it isn't that good as a hybrid. The Surface Pro is a far better hybrid device.

 

[spinedoc77]

When speaking of products, what do you think cannibalizing means? Because, the iPhone cannibalized the iPod. People that might have bought iPods bought iPhones instead and Apple didn’t mind because it’s still a sale for them, just trading one product for another.

Read my comment again, I'm clearly stating that the iPhone cannibalized the iPod.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Read my comment again, I'm clearly stating that the iPhone cannibalized the iPod.

Ah, just before that you had said you disagreed on the cannibalizing part.

 

[spinedoc77]

I changed my mind about the Fold. I swore I'd never get a foldable phone, thinking I'd only get a large folding tablet that's at least 11". I decided to get a Z Fold 4 after all, but only because they offered $1000 trade-in on an old scratched up iPhone X that was just sitting in a drawer, plus some other incentives. I would never buy one at full price, but at more than 1/2 off, it's worth a try. I've been watching tons of Fold 4 videos and keep thinking that the Fold's multitasking looks just like the iPad's. I'm interested in finding out if that third app is worth it, taking up such a tiny space. I also can't imagine that many Android apps are compatible with Flex Mode.

Something we agree on 😀, you will love the Fold. I still have my F3 that I only use as a tablet, I'd go for the F4 in a second but my family and friends have me locked to iMessages,sigh.

Back on topic a bit, compared to the atrocity that is Stage Manager you can see the care Samsung has taken with its multi screen approach, it's very slick.

 

[tobybrut]

You know how much experience I think you have with hybrids? Squat. I think you just like to spread FUD because you have some odd white knight syndrome against the Surface Pro devices. Maybe you were jilted by customer support, maybe you dropped it on your toe, who knows. I say this because your lack of how they function, battery life, touch support, etc just seems so lacking or stuck at 10 years ago.

I love how you're telling me how much time I spend on my tech. I spent a great deal of time on my Surface Pro and it's awful. I gave it to my son, who promptly stopped using it and got a real laptop. He currently sports an Asus G14, quite a nice laptop, I have to say. If I actually needed another Windows machine, I'd get one of those. You may like the Surface Pros, but your experience with hybrids means as much to me as mine does to you, in other words, nothing at all.

I bought the thing for $1200 because I was really eager to have a good hybrid. I was disappointed at every turn. Everything was incredibly slow, and I had the i5 version, not the Celeron version. Having to wait on everything was awful. That's when I realized how compromised this device was when it came to trying to make it a hybrid. In order to have any battery life at all, they had to gut the hardware to the point where it crawled in everything it did and I had very little installed on it besides the standard apps.

When I turned the device into tablet mode, I found myself unable to click on anything reliably because absolutely nothing was touch optimized. Scrolling was especially maddening. I've never dealt with MS tech support on this particular item, so again, you're spouting nonsense. It was the biggest waste of money I'd ever had, tech-wise, and I've bought quite a few turkeys. This was the biggest turkey of them all. I'm not going to spend any time telling you how you're wrong on your experience because someone always loves a bad tech item, and I'm also not going to spend any time telling you what your life experience is because it doesn't matter to the discussion.

 

[tobybrut]

Something we agree on 😀, you will love the Fold. I still have my F3 that I only use as a tablet, I'd go for the F4 in a second but my family and friends have me locked to iMessages,sigh.

Back on topic a bit, compared to the atrocity that is Stage Manager you can see the care Samsung has taken with its multi screen approach, it's very slick.

I just got my Z Fold 4 today. I'm surprised. I actually do love this device. it's taking a bit of time getting use to the quirks, but it's not altogether different from my Galaxy S10+ phone, which I got when it was new and used it for about a year before I stopped its service. I just have to get used to the weird aspect ratios and which way to turn the phone. It took me a while to figure out how to get the biggest picture from watching YouTube, for instance.

The multitasking really isn't much different from the iPad's standard multitasking. It's basically Split View with a third app that takes up a quarter of the screen each. I'm not sure if I'd use that much since the apps are so tiny. If I use it at all, it'd be for an app I don't have to actually look at, such as my music player. I haven't found a use yet for the fourth popup app. If I start taking notes or use a calculator, that'd probably what I'd use it for.

The only thing I regret is that I'm in green bubble territory with my family. We have a permanent joint chat session in Messages, but I had to create a new one to add this phone to it since I still have my iPhone. But sadly, that forces everyone into green bubble territory. Horrors.

 

[spinedoc77]

I just got my Z Fold 4 today. I'm surprised. I actually do love this device. it's taking a bit of time getting use to the quirks, but it's not altogether different from my Galaxy S10+ phone, which I got when it was new and used it for about a year before I stopped its service. I just have to get used to the weird aspect ratios and which way to turn the phone. It took me a while to figure out how to get the biggest picture from watching YouTube, for instance.

The multitasking really isn't much different from the iPad's standard multitasking. It's basically Split View with a third app that takes up a quarter of the screen each. I'm not sure if I'd use that much since the apps are so tiny. If I use it at all, it'd be for an app I don't have to actually look at, such as my music player. I haven't found a use yet for the fourth popup app. If I start taking notes or use a calculator, that'd probably what I'd use it for.

The only thing I regret is that I'm in green bubble territory with my family. We have a permanent joint chat session in Messages, but I had to create a new one to add this phone to it since I still have my iPhone. But sadly, that forces everyone into green bubble territory. Horrors.

If you have a spare Macbook, even an older cheap one, you can setup a server and use BlueBubbles. It's a free app that lets you use iMessages on your Android device. I've been using it for over a year and with some minor caveats it's really performed almost flawlessly, highly recommended.

 

[tobybrut]

If you have a spare Macbook, even an older cheap one, you can setup a server and use BlueBubbles. It's a free app that lets you use iMessages on your Android device. I've been using it for over a year and with some minor caveats it's really performed almost flawlessly, highly recommended.

I’ve got a few spares, including a couple of unused Macs. Or is it a Windows PC I need? I’ve got a few of those, too. I’ll look into it. I’ve heard of those servers that do that, but hadn’t had a need to look into them since I haven’t had an active Android phone for a few years.

 

[spinedoc77]

I’ve got a few spares, including a couple of unused Macs. Or is it a Windows PC I need? I’ve got a few of those, too. I’ll look into it. I’ve heard of those servers that do that, but hadn’t had a need to look into them since I haven’t had an active Android phone for a few years.

It has to run MacOS so it can run iMessages, so any Macbook/Air. Even older ones work, I was initially running it off an old 2013 Macbook Air, but now run it off my MacBook Pro which I rarely use. It's slightly a PITA to setup, but keep at it and you won't be disappointed. They have a good Discord too if you run into issues.

 

[sdf]

My understanding was that Scott Forstall was forced to leave because he didn’t get along with the other Apple executives.

That's what I've heard, too. In a nutshell, he thought he was the new Steve Jobs. He wasn't.

 

[Mike Wolf]

Unfortunately this is the direction Apple seems to be going with a lot of its software updates lately. Another case in point: System Preferences in macOS Ventura beta!

Is Apple trying to do too much, too fast with its annual OS release schedule? Perhaps it's time they moved to a "tick/tock" model with major new features every 2nd year, followed by a release that focuses mainly on bug fixes, performance, new hardware support, etc? Would this give teams more time to ensure that significant new features like Stage Manager are really polished and well-thought out?

Honestly I wouldn’t mind if they did this with hardware too and only released iPhones and iPads every two years, this way they can take the time to really innovate new features and functionality (as well as gather feedback from customers) and not just push something off for the following year’s release because it wasn’t ready in time.