Apple Criticized for 'Fundamentally Misguided' Approach to Stage Manager in iPadOS 16

[Unregistered 4U]

I think Apple have seen DeX and are trying to figure out how to gradually sneak-in a similar user-experience without getting their asses sued.

Samsung Dex hasn’t actually “taken off” in any significant way, so I doubt they’re trying to copy that.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Yup. However, the iPad and Mac versions would need to be 100% compatible, unlike today.

Yeah, try telling Adobe to “have full feature parity between versions on the day we ship this”.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Unfortunately, I think it's mindsets like this that have lead us to where we are with Apple software.

It’s more that the Agile Development Methodology have led us to where we are with ALL software.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Hardware, too. Apple is becoming Dell Computer. The excitement and anticipation has left this company…

Every release is essentially “a box with a screen (or can be connected to a screen) and keyboard that’s a little faster than a the last box of a similar type”. There’s no excitement and anticipation inherent in the release. The excitement and anticipation comes from the minds of those that are seeing their first two or three versions of that faster box, not even fully understanding what options could possibly change. After 6 or 7, they know all the things that can possibly change and can guess what the next one will have and be pretty much spot on.

It’s human nature, things people are excited by change over time as they understand more about how the world works. There’s someone right now excited about the next MacBook Air, but in 8 years, they won’t be THAT excited about the next MacBook Air.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Yes, the current gear is great — but it’s the same gear. I keep hoping to see Tim Cook’s successor come up on stage and show us something new. Something innovative. Something that changes how we do something. Something that makes us — “think differently”.

Any example of “innovative” laptops? Or, is the laptop industry just not innovative as a whole?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Of all Apple users, those using iPads continue to be the most frustrated and fragmented.

Apple will not put macOS on iPad because they know most iPad's are for light duty, general use, by causal users. They will not abandon Stage Manager because some vocal minority of iPad users aren't satisfied with it, and will never be no matter how they modify it. Get a Mac if you don't like the iPad. Stop being frustrated.

Well, the ones here are, but the customer satisfaction numbers for the iPad, in reality, are high. Some may see themselves left behind seeing all the people (twice as many units per year) starting with and sticking with the iPad. And, they use forums like these to find others that are ALSO having a similar feeling. For example, if 4 other people (out of the 40+ million that will buy iPads this year) ALSO want macOS on the iPad, it makes them feel better because it obviously MUST be a good idea and eventually they’ll see it and they’ll “fit in” with this new form factor. I feel the reason why Apple still makes Macs just for those folks, but that won’t stop them from still desiring the iPad.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Apple does not want to put macOS on the iPad because they fear it would cut into their Macbook sales. Apple wants you to buy an iPhone, an iPad, and a Mac because it's more profitable for them.

Apple may WANT that, but it’s up to every individual to figure out what they, personally, need. In reality, the iPad is currently cutting into their MacBook sales. If Apple weren’t selling iPads, they might even be selling FAR more MacBooks (as they sell roughly twice as many iPads as MacBooks). Cutting into that more… folks buying a different Apple device instead of the same Apple device… has been Apple’s MO for awhile. The iPods are dead because the iPhones cut into their sales, etc.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

They lost the most talented visionary for UI UX that day.

Yeah, the company he started after leaving Apple developed some of the most revered UI/UX concepts that are essentially the basis of all UI/UX education today. /s

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Also, interesting to note that NO OTHER TECH COMPANIES (Besides Snapchat) have gotten Scott to work for them.
That has to say something.
If he was truly the next Steve Jobs, he would've had the ambition to go work for another company, or create his own.
Nothing stopping him, but he didn't.

And even Snapchat had him as an “Advisor”. They knew enough about him to NOT give him an actual position with the company. And to add to what you said, not only did Steve Jobs leave and start his own company, he took several folks with him. It’s said that Scott Forstall took ALL the employees that liked him when he left… and that was zero.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

My understanding was that Scott Forstall was forced to leave because he didn’t get along with the other Apple executives. So in this context, it didn’t matter how talented he was. He represented a net detriment to the long term success of the company.

His main claim to fame was being Steve Jobs’ friend. If it weren’t for that, he would have never made it to Apple… OR NeXT!

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Multiple audio, for instance, can't happen because iPadOS allows only one app to really be active at once. All other apps are put to sleep in order to save power. They'd have to fundamentally change that entire concept. I'd love to have multiple audio sources, but I can recognize the difficulty in doing so from a programmer's point of view.

It can happen, the developer just has to provide an option (Like GarageBand and VocaLive does) to enable background audio. If the developer doesn’t offer it, then the app can’t do it.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Now... convergence is inevitable in the future. I can foresee the time when the iPhone you carry round in your pocket is so powerful its your one computing device.... if you want a desktop then when you arrive at your desk you dock the phone (or at that time just a proximity sensor will make the connection) and then your desktop screen with mouse and keyboard will spring into life and display a macOS like desktop... Same goes for an iPad style device if you want to carry round a bigger screen with you. Even at this point MacOS and iOS would still be distinctly different paradigms but the convergence would be smooth and natural feeling.

Isn’t that going on an assumption that the interface most folks prefer is a macOS/Windows interface, though? For a lot of people under 10 today, their first interface, and the one they’re be most comfortable with, will be touch. So, for these folks a macOS like desktop would be the furthest from what they would want.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

There is no way an M1 Ultra can fit in a laptop without it violating all sorts of laws of physics.

My mistake. Should have mention the M1 Max and not the M1 Ultra, but I do believe that we will see something equivalent to a M1 Ultra in a laptop eventually. But you speak in absolutes… we will never see this or that. I don’t follow that logic… because who would have thought that the Apple Silicon can produce the performance and power it does (especially the battery life).

There are Intel processors that pull far more power than the Ultra and they fit in laptops fine. More efficient or performant cooling systems would not violate the laws of physics.

 

[planteater]

Well, the ones here are, but the customer satisfaction numbers for the iPad, in reality, are high. Some may see themselves left behind seeing all the people (twice as many units per year) starting with and sticking with the iPad. And, they use forums like these to find others that are ALSO having a similar feeling. For example, if 4 other people (out of the 40+ million that will buy iPads this year) ALSO want macOS on the iPad, it makes them feel better because it obviously MUST be a good idea and eventually they’ll see it and they’ll “fit in” with this new form factor. I feel the reason why Apple still makes Macs just for those folks, but that won’t stop them from still desiring the iPad.

Yes, I agree, my comment would have been better served by limiting the range of users as you noted. Thanks.

 

[KevinN206]

I don't know what you're talking about. If the dock wouldn't be on screen, there would just be empty and unused space. Also, don't like overlapping windows? Just resize them.

View attachment 2044894

Good grief. Would you have to do that continuous and every time? And why would you need it hidden behind another app that's useless. Just copy Android 12L and be done with.

 

[KevinN206]

Splitscreen sucks in portrait; Stagemanager solves that.

Stage Manager is not needed for portrait mode split screen. They just need to change it to actually allow such mode in the current split screen methods. Samsung Android has been doing portrait split screen for eons on phones and tablets.

 

[darngooddesign]

Stage Manager is not needed for portrait mode split screen. They just need to change it to actually allow such mode in the current split screen methods. Samsung Android has been doing portrait split screen for eons on phones and tablets.

Whether they could is irrelevant, Apple has never done portrait spliscreen in the seven years that feature has been around so SM is needed for it.

 

[Mainsail]

Whether they could is irrelevant, Apple has never done portrait spliscreen in the seven years that feature has been around so SM is needed for it.

Here is portrait split screen using Safari and Notes apps on my iPad Air. It won’t do 50/50…..more like 2/3 and 1/3.…but definitely a split screen. Why do you need SM for this?

 

[darngooddesign]

Here is portrait split screen using Safari and Notes apps on my iPad Air. It won’t do 50/50…..more like 2/3 and 1/3.…but definitely a split screen. Why do you need SM for this?

View attachment 2045660

That's not what I'm talking about.

My original comment was that SM is need to have horizontally split windows, instead of these tall, skinny windows.

 

[KevinN206]

That's not what I'm talking about.

My original comment was that SM is need to have horizontally split windows, instead of these tall, skinny windows.

I think our point is that Apple could have simply extended the original split screen concept to include portrait mode without needing Stage Manager in the same manner as Android. The default in portrait is stacked apps. The default in landscape is side-by-side. You just tab the middle divider button and pop up an option to swap positions. It's really straightforward on Android. And Android 12L makes it even better on tablets.

 

[Mainsail]

That's not what I'm talking about.

My original comment was that SM is need to have horizontally split windows, instead of these tall, skinny windows.

Oh, got it. I missed that original comment, so I was kind of confused when you said "Apple has never done portrait spliscreen".

 

[tobybrut]

My mistake. Should have mention the M1 Max and not the M1 Ultra, but I do believe that we will see something equivalent to a M1 Ultra in a laptop eventually. But you speak in absolutes… we will never see this or that. I don’t follow that logic… because who would have thought that the Apple Silicon can produce the performance and power it does (especially the battery life).

As Apple Silicon progresses, their chips will get more powerful. You're right that something with the power of an Ultra will be in a laptop someday, but when that day comes, the Ultra of that day will be far more powerful than the one today and will run as hot. You think I want the status quo. I don't. I want the iPad to progress as a tablet, not as a laptop.

I'm old enough to see the beginning of the personal computing age, so of course technology will progress, but the power curve will go up over time. But what has remained constant is that top end laptops will never catch top end desktop, and though tablets are only a bit over a decade old, a top end tablet will never catch up to the power of a top end laptop until the day when laptops and tablets disappear to be replaced by some other technology, e.g. Minority Report. But even then portability and size will always limit maximum capability. Tech companies will dream up all sorts of capabilities for tablets in the coming years, and I look forward to them. But once they stop being tablets, what's the point in having them?

If the iPad can use a keyboard and pointing device that makes it a laptop… right? Whether or not you agree, the Surface Pro is a hybrid… people use it as a tablet, I think you need to understand people outside your circle use Windows devices and actually likes them. The Surface Pro has had 7 generations… if it was a bad hybrid. Microsoft would have scrapped it completely.

No. An iPad can do everything it can do without a keyboard or pointing device. The same cannot be said of a laptop. And I don't agree. The Surface Pro is trash. The existence of Windows 11 is Microsoft's admission that their hybrids sucked as they take yet another failed stab at making a hybrid.

 

[tobybrut]

Conversely, I've never understood those with your point of view. Just like the Surface Pro and Windows laptops exist, there will be Mac users who prefer one over the other. Certainly a MacOS tablet would cannibalize MacBook sales, and that's your financial answer, but not your functional answer.

Just my personal opinion, but I don't particularly see the use case to keep iPadOS at all in 2022. Battery life? Surface Pro's are not that far off at all than iPads in battery life in particular if used as dumb tablets, we're still talking 10ish hours of screen time give or take depending on what you feed it. Apps? Windows has millions of legacy programs and a robust app store, but that's moot because Apple already allows access to the app store on MacOS for the M1/2 devices. Touch capabality? MacOS can be touch capable, Windows did it, and I call BS on the FUDers who say it's not usable on a tablet.

It's just the same old issue that Apple wants you to buy 2 devices, and consumers keep getting fooled. Which is ok, hey your money is your money, but please don't make believe like there isn't a good use case for having MacOS on a tablet.

I don't argue from a financial point of view. I couldn't care less if Apple makes another buck or two or doesn't. This is about what makes a good tablet. A hybrid is not a good laptop. Microsoft's repeated failures with hybrids should have warned them long ago their attempts were not getting them anywhere. Remember I also said that Surface Pros achieve their battery life by crippling their hardware. That makes it a poor laptop and horrendous tablet. I like the Surface Laptops. Those are nice machines. But the Surface Pros are trash.

It's not about cannibalizing hardware either. Apple's said over and over they don't care if they cannibalize themselves. They just don't want anyone else to do it. They cannibalize their sales all the time of other products. The iPhone wouldn't exist if they were afraid of cannibalizing iPod sales. They're working today on Apple Glass, which will end up cannibalizing iPhones. I've had a lot of experience with hybrids, and they're all bad. I don't want to see the iPad wrecked by a fool's attempt to make a hybrid.

 

[tobybrut]

His only argument is that Windows "sucks" but doesn't really detail functionally the issue, it's just FUD from a disgruntled user. I don't have an issue believing that he is unhappy with Windows and his Surface Pro, nothing wrong with that at all, it's just the level of vehemence he has towards a neutral technology is suspicious. I'm also not following on his reasoning, he's just using his personal use case to blanket all consumers, but as you point out many consumers go outside of these boundaries.

I love Windows. I have 14 Windows PC's in my house right now. I used to run Windows servers. I have no issue with Windows PC's, having built well over 100 of them over my lifetime. Don't tell me what my motivations are. Windows doesn't suck. Windows hybrids suck. There's a huge difference.

 

[tobybrut]

It’s more that the Agile Development Methodology have led us to where we are with ALL software.

I'll absolutely agree with this. A lot of software companies adopt Agile and I have no idea why. I guess too many HR people get these newfangled ideas like TQM and Agile and try to stuff them into processes where they don't belong. Most engineers I've talked to hate it, but management almost always loves the idea.