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One better than what ? Sandboxing has been around for decades. It's not a novel concept. BSD Jails ? HP-UX SRPs ? Solaris Zones ? Heck, plain old chroot jails ?

Welcome to yesterday's security measures.

Some times you don't have to reinvent the wheel, you just have to implement it in the right way.

Again though, it shouldn't be an issue as this is only for MAS apps. Developers can still use every avenue that existed prior to the MAS, right?
 
It's not only apps that require global hotkeys that are affected by the new sandboxing requirements.

All kind of window management applications (moom, bettersnaptool, optimal layout etc.) also are not sandboxable.
All kind of apps that need to send mouse movements or mouseclicks to the system are not sandboxable.
All kind of apps that need to control arbitrary applications in some way are not sandboxable.
All kind of apps that need to send keyboard shortcuts (e.g. for pasting text or s.th. like this) are not sandboxable.
Apps that make use of the media keys on the keyboard are not sandboxable (or will lose this functionality)

This list can be continued for quite a while...
But at least Apple has decided to leave the current versions of those Apps in the App Store and allow the developers to release bugfix updates.
 
I think I understand this in theory, but do any posters have an actual real-world example of a program they use with this?

EDIT: Ok, I guess, but isn't this the same as Command-tab? I guess I'm just having trouble figuring out who is really hurt by this change.

I use some of these apps. The best is keyremap4macbook http://pqrs.org/macosx/keyremap4macbook/ It lets you change any key or combination of keys to anything else. One place where I use this is for a keyboard that didn't have media control keys. It was easy to remap keys to play/pause, forward, back, etc. Also, the current MacBook keyboards don't have an eject key anymore, but I like the shift-control-eject shortcut to put the screen to sleep. I can't find any way to map this function to other keys in any of the Apple preferences.

They might also block BetterTouchTool and MagicPrefs from the MAS which are great programs to do fancy multi-touch commands from trackpads and the Magic Mouse.

Most of these programs are already available in two versions: one through MAS and one through their own website since Apple is already rejecting apps that they think intrude. As others have said, if they ever try and lock the Mac down to just MAS - like the iPhone/iPad - it's Linux time!
 
I think I understand this in theory, but do any posters have an actual real-world example of a program they use with this?

EDIT: Ok, I guess, but isn't this the same as Command-tab? I guess I'm just having trouble figuring out who is really hurt by this change.

Running right now for me... Fantastical, LaunchBar, Typinator, Tags, Appigo ToDo, TuneInstructor.

Apps like TUAW mentions: productivity apps like OmniFocus, The Hit List, Things. Media control apps (like I Love Stars or SizzlingKeys). Utilities like Moom or Keymo. Even Twitter apps have a keyboard shortcut to bring themselves to the front.

This feature is everywhere, and it's important.
 
You don't need an app for hot keys; you can configure them with Automator. People don't need to make a big deal over this

Automator is slow as molasses and impractical for setting up global hotkeys. I use Alfred (with PowerPack which you CANNOT get from the App Store) and it's lightening fast.

I just hope to God Apple never forces all 3rd party devs to use the Mac App Store or I will be forced to leave the Mac altogether. And I love my Macs. (Albeit a little less these days since upgrading to Lion.)
 
No big deal...

I'm not seeing this as a big deal. Power users don't really use the MAS anyway (we all are familiar with non-mas versions of apps having more features than the mas ones..) I see what Apple is trying to do, prevent dumb a$$es from messing up their own computers with malware and shitz. This doesn't affect anyone who knows what they are doing.

Productivity tools like these are for power users; and for them, everything is the same as pre-MAS days. Noobs use the MAS, everyone's happy.

The problem with this model of course is, who gets malware from the MAS anyway? As long as gatekeeper and the like are under user control, all this complaining is pointless IMHO.
 
I think the sandboxing requirement makes sense, and I'm OK with it so long as it's only for the app store... if they somehow stripped that kind of functionality from the OS, it would stink.

On my older Mac I use Enjoy to map gamepad controls. I don't think Enjoy is on the app store, but so long as I can use it, I'm happy.

I suppose limiting app store availability might be a disincentive for some developers... but sandboxing seems to make a lot of sense when you're trying to ensure users' security.
 
Can somebody explain what the risk is of allowing hot keys? I understand it goes against the principle of sandboxing, but why can't macosx provide a safe way to call a specific app when a hot key is pressed??
 
I'm not seeing this as a big deal. Power users don't really use the MAS anyway (we all are familiar with non-mas versions of apps having more features than the mas ones..) I see what Apple is trying to do, prevent dumb a$$es from messing up their own computers with malware and shitz. This doesn't affect anyone who knows what they are doing.

Productivity tools like these are for power users; and for them, everything is the same as pre-MAS days. Noobs use the MAS, everyone's happy.

The problem with this model of course is, who gets malware from the MAS anyway? As long as gatekeeper and the like are under user control, all this complaining is pointless IMHO.

Yeah, honestly I think you guys should wait until there are hints that Apple will actually make it like iOS where you have to go to the Mac App store to get your programs. I mean I'm one of the users that probably this stuff doesn't affect too much but even I'd be upset if they did that. It's very obvious that by doing that they will severely limit what the Mac can do (even if they didn't have this sandbox thing). IT's fine for my little devices like my phone and the ipad (which is more of a toy to me) but I don't want my computer limited that way.

Of course one could argue I already limit myself by using Mac over Windows since Windows has more developer support so just for that it has a lot more options but it's getting better at least (You're seeing a lot more interest in Mac software development). Going to a Mac app store where apple holds all approval would reverse that :(.
 
Why I don't buy new Mac's.

This is why I have stopped buying new Macintosh computers and stopped upgrading my MacOS. Apple is taking away the useful functionality I need to do my work. I don't use a computer in order to use a computer. Using the computer is not the end all and be all. The computer is a tool to let me do my work. When the computer gets in the way of getting my work done then I won't use the computer. Apple is being arrogant and it is costing them sales.

Apple needs to take several steps back. They need to support Classic, Rosetta and drop these requirements that are destroying the useful software.

Apple loses.
 
They could fix their Aperture shortcuts that keep taking priority over my iTunes play / pause, backward, forward keys for a start...

Will they fix it for Aperture too? Or just updates?
 
This is why I have stopped buying new Macintosh computers and stopped upgrading my MacOS. Apple is taking away the useful functionality I need to do my work. I don't use a computer in order to use a computer. Using the computer is not the end all and be all. The computer is a tool to let me do my work. When the computer gets in the way of getting my work done then I won't use the computer. Apple is being arrogant and it is costing them sales.

Apple needs to take several steps back. They need to support Classic, Rosetta and drop these requirements that are destroying the useful software.

Apple loses.

Classic ? I kind of understand the lack of Rosetta but it was an interim bandaid.

I'd suggest telling the software vendor of the classic apps to get up to par.
 
Would this affect programs like Butler or Quicksilver? Losing the ability to call up search engine shortcuts, custom AppleScripts and iTunes files with abbreviations would be a huge problem.
 
Can someone explains what hotkeys are?

Apps using keys to do other things besides what the frontmost app is doing. I use XKeys to launch apps. Extremely useful. I abandoned Lion because it won't run XKeys which needs Rosetta. Apple's destroying functionality and losing customers. Now I won't upgrade my hardware or any of the other 17 Macintoshes that I lord over. Apple loses.

While I agree that this is pretty lame, keep in mind it only affects the Mac App Store.

Today. And tomorrow they will block your being able to install any software except that which you buy through the MacAppStore. They did it with iOS. They'll do that with OSX. Just watch. Solution: Don't buy new Apple products. I figure I can keep the hardware I've got which isn't crippled like this going for another 20 years. Hopefully by then someone will replace Apple with better, open source, products. This is a perfect example of why monopolies are bad. Apple's getting too big for its britches.

You can still download apps from outside of the MAS. Everyone can calm down.

Not for long. Better scream while you can.

So you'd be happy if Apple removed the TCP/IP stack to make the system more secure?

Yup, that's probably on the list in the interest of security. Just like the Patriot Act, NAIS, REALID, etc.
 
Classic ? I kind of understand the lack of Rosetta but it was an interim bandaid.

There was a tremendous amount of educational software produced during the 1990's that only runs under Classic. When Apple removed Classic they destroyed all that software. Nobody's producing replacements that are anywhere near as good. Apple's rich. Apple has the resources both in manpower and in processing power to easily emulate 68K, Classic, PPC/Rosetta, Windows, etc. If Apple's not going to support Classic or Rosetta then they should release them into the public domain with full documentation. Time for a class action lawsuit and a change of law regarding this issue. If manufactures won't support products then the products should go into public domain.

----------

So I guess they are trading in hotkeys for gestures? But using an application like pixelmator with out hotkeys would honestly kill productivity.

No comparison. I have well over 100 custom hotkey combinations that let me do my work far faster than without them. The gestures just aren't there.
 
This is the beginning of the end.

We all know which direction this is going. iOS on our macs, we see it slowly going that way, adapting feature after feature from iOS. Soon enough, we will be locked down to a crippled user experience due to lack of customization and freedom to do what we want.

Imagine only being able to only install applications on your computer (or maybe i should say iBook) from the Mac App Store bowing to Apple's every liking and disliking. We should have the right to get software from ANY distribution source we want!

They are going to enforce their power on a platform that has always been open, free and great. Some things are better left alone. The day that Apple enforces this policy is the day i make the switch back to Windows or Linux on a good ol "free" PC. I don't want to live under an iron fist.

I love OSX, but i've never used the Mac App Store and never will as i prefer to get the software directly from the creator, hopefully making them a bit more money so apple doesn't get their 30% share, as if they need it.

Let's just hope it doesn't go that way, and they think before they risk losing customers!
 
One better than what ? Sandboxing has been around for decades. It's not a novel concept. BSD Jails ? HP-UX SRPs ? Solaris Zones ? Heck, plain old chroot jails ?

Agreed. I can think of one modern implementation that works extremely well from a developer's standpoint. Intents anyone?
 
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