Apple Cutting Off Mac App Store Hotkey Apps as Sandboxing Requirement Goes Live on June 1? [Updated]

[WestonHarvey1]

I think I understand this in theory, but do any posters have an actual real-world example of a program they use with this?




EDIT: Ok, I guess, but isn't this the same as Command-tab? I guess I'm just having trouble figuring out who is really hurt by this change.

There are lots of great apps that become far less useful without this. OmniFocus, for example. Any time you think of a task that needs to be done, you hit the hotkey and enter a quick note into the box that pops up. You don't have to fumble around and open the app and look for the button on the interface.

Without that one feature, I wouldn't use the app.

Thankfully, you can always download apps with these features directly from the developer's site.

 

[w00master]

Can somebody explain what the risk is of allowing hot keys? I understand it goes against the principle of sandboxing, but why can't macosx provide a safe way to call a specific app when a hot key is pressed??

It's not necessarily "just hotkey apps." Sandboxing (as it currently stands) doesn't allow an easy way for apps to share information with each other. All apps are in silos. It's one of my few issues with iOS.

For apps to share information with each other, they have to create APIs for other apps to utilize. An example would be DropBox on iOS vs. DropBox on Mac OS X (as it currently stands). Apps using DropBox on iOS has to support it where as on OS X (currently) it works automatically.

w00master

 

[firewood]

Again though, it shouldn't be an issue as this is only for MAS apps. Developers can still use every avenue that existed prior to the MAS, right?

Right! Any true power user can download Xcode from the MAS, install command-line tools from Xcode, then write or checkout source code from github, and compile apps to do anything they want on their own Mac.

Apple needs to take several steps back. They need to support Classic, Rosetta and drop these requirements that are destroying the useful software.

The evidence says quite the opposite. Since dropping Rosetta, both Mac market share and Apple profits have gone up.

 

[z3r0]

Does this mean totalterminal or visor will no longer function?

http://www.addictivetips.com/mac-os/totalterminal-replaces-visor-in-mac-system-wide-terminal-with-hotkey/

I want a system wide hotkey to activate and slide my terminal up (ctrl `)

 

[dolphin842]

I use quite a few MAS apps where hotkeys are essential to their usefulness (xScope, QuickCal, Skitch, Screeny), not to mention outside apps like Quicksilver. It's a shame that Apple is keeping genuinely useful apps out of the app store; all it does is encourage users to look outside of Apple's walled garden.

Apple's awkwardness with getting these sandbox regulations off the ground seems to suggest that they're not quite sure about what developers need, and would be open to their suggestions. I expect the #1 thing Apple staff will hear about from developers at WWDC will be sandbox issues, so they may even postpone the regulations again while they wait to get that feedback in June.

 

[sniffies]

Would this affect my beloved app Alfred?

 

[WestonHarvey1]

Right! Any true power user can download Xcode from the MAS, install command-line tools from Xcode, then write or checkout source code from github, and compile apps to do anything they want on their own Mac.

I think he meant that software developers can continue to offer software outside the scope of the MAS and sandboxing. Most people know how to download things off a website, since that's still the predominant distribution method.

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Apple's awkwardness with getting these sandbox regulations off the ground seems to suggest that they're not quite sure about what developers need, and would be open to their suggestions. I expect the #1 thing Apple staff will hear about from developers at WWDC will be sandbox issues, so they may even postpone the regulations again while they wait to get that feedback in June.

I see one of two possibilities:

1. Apple hates apps that use hotkeys, and generally anything else that mucks about with OS X APIs they'd rather developers not touch. They're happy now that their vision for how computers should work is coming true.

OR

2. Apple will provide sandboxed apps with new APIs that restore these features, in a controlled and secure way. They're just not ready yet.

 

[w00master]

Would this affect my beloved app Alfred?

Yup.

 

[baryon]

Does this have anything to do with preventing key-loggers? If an app can listen for keystrokes even when that app is not active, it could potentially steal your passwords, etc… I imagine…

 

[knightlie]

Great news! I'm so happy Apple continues to lead the way in promoting world class security features across its technology platforms.

You sound like a fool.


So: Alfred? Window Magnet? SnapNDrag? The three most used apps on my system are no longer welcome on the App Store. I guess I'll be spending my money elsewhere, and I certainly won't be selling my apps on the MAS.

 

[iVoid]

And Apple tightens the screws yet again.

 

[knightlie]

So I guess they are trading in hotkeys for gestures? But using an application like pixelmator with out hotkeys would honestly kill productivity.

This isn't app hotkeys like Cmd+D, this is about global hotkeys, like Option+Space for Alfred or the hotkeys for WindowMagnet.

 

[iBug2]

I'd rather be educated and careful and have an actual system I can use for something. Otherwise, I'd own an iPad.

That's not called educated. Computers are tools for the majority. Ideally, other than the most basic OS operations, people shouldn't know anything about the OS itself unless it's their job to know.

They certainly should be careful though.

 

[iBug2]

Apps using keys to do other things besides what the frontmost app is doing. I use XKeys to launch apps. Extremely useful. I abandoned Lion because it won't run XKeys which needs Rosetta. Apple's destroying functionality and losing customers. Now I won't upgrade my hardware or any of the other 17 Macintoshes that I lord over. Apple loses.

It's probably irrelevant that they lose customers, as long as they gain more new ones. No company can probably hold on to each and every single one of their customers throughout their existence.

 

[Stella]

Utter crap, utter crap. Apple really want OSX to be as dumbed down as iOS.

There are many applications that depend on global hot keys to be useful. Apple could really accommodate global hotkeys if they wanted to.

As to a previous poster - yes, this will affect 1Password. You will no longer be able to use its hot keys. Now, all its in browser functionality will have to be invoked via the mouse. A lot less convenient.

It's probably irrelevant that they lose customers, as long as they gain more new ones. No company can probably hold on to each and every single one of their customers throughout their existence.

In this case, Apple can accommodate.

 

[iBug2]

Utter crap, utter crap. Apple really want OSX to be as dumbed down as iOS.

There are many applications that depend on global hot keys to be useful. Apple could really accommodate global hotkeys if they wanted to.

As to a previous poster - yes, this will affect 1Password. You will no longer be able to use its hot keys. Now, all its in browser functionality will have to be invoked via the mouse. A lot less convenient.

Jeez... If only people could read. It's about these apps not being sold through MAS. 1password will keep working exactly as it's working right now.

 

[w00master]

Jeez... If only people could read. It's about these apps not being sold through MAS. 1password will keep working exactly as it's working right now.

I think many who are against this (myself included) are really commenting on the future. Yes, you can get this outside of the MAS, but how long will this last? Many of us who are against this are fearful of the day when Apple completely shuts down the ability to download/install apps outside of MAS.

w00master

 

[Stella]

Jeez... If only people could read. It's about these apps not being sold through MAS. 1password will keep working exactly as it's working right now.

1Password is being sold through the App Store. 1Password MAS users will lose ( very useful ) hot key functionality should they upgrade in the future after sandboxing as been fully implemented .

I think many who are against this (myself included) are really commenting on the future. Yes, you can get this outside of the MAS, but how long will this last? Many of us who are against this are fearful of the day when Apple completely shuts down the ability to download/install apps outside of MAS.

w00master

Apple are compromising useful functionality for the sake of security - the balance has been tipped. Its all one way traffic.

 

[Renzatic]

YEAH!!! EVIL STUPID APPLE.
How DARE they make the OS more secure!

Or do you think that they should simply carve out great big holes in the only security measure (Sandboxing) that is proven effective in fighting malware?

The 99% of us who want a secure system frankly don't give a rat's ass about mildly inconveniencing a few lazy users. Sorry for the devs, but times move on.

LOL! I know what you mean! These troglodytes and their stupid functionality, all whining because they can't accept a little change! If all these "hotkeys", and other things that make your life (supposedly) easier were actually important, Apple wouldn't feel the need to get rid of it, now would they? Some people here need to get with the times, right?

 

[MikhailT]

Let's wait until Apple confirms this, the original source of this is just a developer saying something. This seems like a rule related to the "user must permit the data file location outside of the sandboxed container" that applies to MAS apps.

In other words, apps have to prompt the users to allow the hot keys rather than activating it without the user's consent. So, Apple is blocking any apps that does this without user's consent.

Sandboxing is not only about restricting everything in a container but also to get consent to exist the container for certain tasks.

It is also possible Apple will introduce new APIs to allow hot keys.

Till than, I don't think it is a big deal.

 

[snowmoon]

Has anyone, besides some un named and disgruntled MAS developer, been able to verify these claims of policy change with Apple?

 

[MikhailT]

Has anyone, besides some un named and disgruntled MAS developer, been able to verify these claims of policy change with Apple?

Nope. That's basically it and every news report is sourcing from the same report, I wish new sites would stop doing this until they verify through another source.

 

[rhett7660]

It's not necessarily "just hotkey apps." Sandboxing (as it currently stands) doesn't allow an easy way for apps to share information with each other. All apps are in silos. It's one of my few issues with iOS.

For apps to share information with each other, they have to create APIs for other apps to utilize. An example would be DropBox on iOS vs. DropBox on Mac OS X (as it currently stands). Apps using DropBox on iOS has to support it where as on OS X (currently) it works automatically.

w00master

So if Apple offers API's to do this, would that be same?

 

[yonis]

 

[Fuzzi]

just tested RegisterEventHotKey() and it's working in the Sandbox (at least here on 10.7.3, not updated yet). So I tend to think TUAWs information is wrong.

But still the sandbox stops many great App Store utilities from being updated.