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Android is open-you don't have to go through the market, while you do on iOS.

And anyway, charging for something done through a program would be like Buick skimming off the top from Krogers because I put my groceries in the back seat.

The difference is, my dear Watson, that once you purchase a Puick, the Puick manufacturer does not incurr in any more expense. Got it?
 
Exactly, HOWEVER! Sending Apple a .app file and having them host it costs a lot less tha paying a printer, paying fed ex, and paying Albertsons. The old fashioned way probably was 30% of the value. With the App store if Apple took 20% I'd say hey thats pretty damn fair. Apple is trying to get the same margins companies are paying now, but with less over head. I just don't see how anyone can really defend it. Two big businesses trying to rip each other off all it does is hurts the consumers.

It never hurts the consumer unless the consumer has a sheep brain. The consumer does not have to buy it. If paperback is cheaper then you buy that until the price goes down on the medium you want. That is how I see things, no one told me when I was born I was going to get my way all the time.
 
But if, for example, MLB or Netflix start selling one tier that works on smartphones/tablets OTHER than iOS, and another, more expensive tier that works on iOS devices, Apple will drop the hammer on them.
So, if Apple sells one tier that works on iOS devices only and sell that only via in-app purchases/subscriptions and sells another tier that works only on Android devices and sells that only via the Android market place, Apple would disallow this?
You mean any given game for example could not be sold at a lower price on Android than on iOS?
 
I don't see current app developers complaining about the 30%. The reality is the App Store is much more than just "billing". It's a retail store similar to Walmart and the profit you are giving up is similar. And it's most important function is the marketing (and sales) it provides. Calling Apple's App Store just a billing solution for software developers and magazine publishers is like calling Walmart or Barnes and Nobles just a "billing" solution for software developers and magazine publishers.

i think it really depends - if you are a small time dev house or publisher, App stores offers the value of both ease of billing and exposure to their closed marketplace. If you are a big player (with an existing subscriber based or following and distribution mechanism) then of course Apple's value to you diminishes (and the 30% will seem steep).

On the consumer side, some consumer's want the convenience of a single billing mechanism (even at a cost), others may want to save money or their own control/freedom by going directly to a website or the publishers App or other clearing house - at the cost of send out (and managing) their billing info to various sources.


P.
 
this is rather shady of apple, they know most people when presented with a $9.99 book through an in-app purchase vs. having to go to amazon.com, as an example will go through the app.

i understand with music/movies/apps that apple hosts on its servers they need to cover costs, but with something like kindle where apple does nothing and administrative costs are zero they're just grabbing 30% for nothing, that's not cool.

I think Kindle and Netflix will bring plenty of people via their websites.

I wonder how will retail sites work for in App purchases tho. If I use Amazon's app to buy a book, is that an in app purchase.
 
It never hurts the consumer unless the consumer has a sheep brain. The consumer does not have to buy it. If paperback is cheaper then you buy that until the price goes down on the medium you want. That is how I see things, no one told me when I was born I was going to get my way all the time.

Consumers are stupid. Look at the crap we watch on TV, food we eat, and products we buy. I mean really, do you need a 800 dollar cell phone?
 
This means that Netflix could still offer their existing subscription, with the full snailmail rental ability and all, and then offer a cheaper subscription for the in-app subscription that lets you do digital only. This means that people who pay Netflix directly get the added bonus of getting physical rentals as well, but they pay a bit extra to do it.

Netflix already offers that. And they can't suddenly let Apple take a 30% cut randomly for no reason.

Geez, this whole thing is scary. iOS is half broken, but I still like it better than Android...but I hope Amazon, Netflix, and other companies don't cave to this nonsense. Pull your programs or go to court. I'll go buy a device from someone else if need be.
 
This is incorrect.

If that were true they'd be trying to charge you when you copy files over the USB cable. That's not something they're doing because "being on the device" is not what they're after.



I don't believe they do. That's the point. Part of the benefit for the 30% is 'exposure and marketing.'

You were saying "where's the marketing?"

I was pointing out where it was.
Does this marketing also apply to Kindle books or Netflix instant watch content? I don't ever remember seeing Apple offer a way to see that stuff in the App Store.

I think they are greedy all around when it comes to content. All Apple is doing right now is driving up the cost of content. All these people going "Go Apple! I am a shareholder because I have 5 shares yey!" Have no clue what this is going to do to us... the people that buy content.

Apple is free to do what they want to do in their ecosystem. I won't argue that point. I just think it is crappy.

I will be interested in seeing how this all pans out. What makes things like the Kindle so enticing is the they buy once read (almost) anywhere. If we buy content through Apple will they still honor that? The T&C makes it seem like if what you are offered is tied to a real world item then you cannot offer it via in-app purchasing.
 
I can't believe I just read through so many pages of utter drivel saying how unreasonable the 30% charge is.

Apple have invested millions of $'s in R&D and developed the best mobile eco-system in the world, with an enormous group of very happy (and fairly well off) users. If someone wants to tap into that user base, then a 30% commission is entirely reasonable. If a supplier doesn't like it, they can f/o and sort their own supply chain out. I'm sure there'll be plenty of other developers chomping at the bit.

Besides, it's supply & demand like everything else - if nobody accepts the 30% commission then they will just have to drop it......

Do you see what you have done?

You are making sense, and a lot of folks in this forum don't want any of this common sense stuff!
 
I can't believe I just read through so many pages of utter drivel saying how unreasonable the 30% charge is.

Apple have invested millions of $'s in R&D and developed the best mobile eco-system in the world, with an enormous group of very happy (and fairly well off) users. If someone wants to tap into that user base, then a 30% commission is entirely reasonable. If a supplier doesn't like it, they can f/o and sort their own supply chain out. I'm sure there'll be plenty of other developers chomping at the bit.

Besides, it's supply & demand like everything else - if nobody accepts the 30% commission then they will just have to drop it......

haha, well said same here, the children are mad they can't get it their way every time. Don't like the commission then pay google millions to advertise either way if you want to sell, at any price make sure your medium is worth the price, I am talking to you Time.

With all the things the ipad can do the only company to bring something out worth the money has been Fox or Murdocks company and that is a shame and disgrace.
 
I can't believe I just read through so many pages of utter drivel saying how unreasonable the 30% charge is.

Apple have invested millions of $'s in R&D and developed the best mobile eco-system in the world, with an enormous group of very happy (and fairly well off) users. If someone wants to tap into that user base, then a 30% commission is entirely reasonable. If a supplier doesn't like it, they can f/o and sort their own supply chain out. I'm sure there'll be plenty of other developers chomping at the bit.

In this situation the supplier has already sorted out their own supply chain. We're talking apps like Netflix, Sirius XM, Pandora, Kindle, and so forth that actually host, supply, and deliver the content without Apple at all. The only thing Apple does is host the program on iTunes for the initial download.
 
this is rather shady of apple, they know most people when presented with a $9.99 book through an in-app purchase vs. having to go to amazon.com, as an example will go through the app.

i understand with music/movies/apps that apple hosts on its servers they need to cover costs, but with something like kindle where apple does nothing and administrative costs are zero they're just grabbing 30% for nothing, that's not cool.

I don't understand your post. How would Apple make money if you bought a book off of Amazon.com?
 
Consumers are stupid. Look at the crap we watch on TV, food we eat, and products we buy. I mean really, do you need a 800 dollar cell phone?

You offend some consumers just like that, and in so doing, you identify yourself as a member of those you offend.

To get both grandmas watch their grandchildren do shenanigans live in FaceTime, this is worth the iPhone price.

Not sure is worth answering to you. Oh well...
 
With all the things the ipad can do the only company to bring something out worth the money has been Fox or Murdocks company and that is a shame and disgrace.


If you don't like it cry to Uncle Steve. He's the one holding hands with NewsCorp.

To get both grandmas watch their grandchildren do shenanigans live in FaceTime, this is worth the iPhone price.

Skype?
 
I don't understand your post. How would Apple make money if you bought a book off of Amazon.com?

That is Apple's point. They want their cut (via forcing in-app purchases). Even if (in the case of Kindle) they didn't provide anything past hosting the original Kindle.app.
 
Wow.... amazing responses.

Do people really feel it costs Apple nothing to keep the iOS eco system together? Do they not understand how distribution works?

The people that are complaining about Apple taking 30% from customers that buy through iTunes is like complaining about any retailer taking profit from anything they sell.

Apple brings access to millions of new customers. They are in the right by asking to be paid for customers that purchase through iTunes.

My goodness... this is all so basic. I just don't get it?
 
How many apps are sold for Android devices and how many for iOS devices? That ratio tilted very clearly into iOS's favour.
And what is iOS's market share in the tablet market?

Doesn't matter. The legal definition involves the ability to fix prices.

Consumors and developers are both free to run away from iOS to a variety of other platforms. If Apple charged a $10 fee for every app downloaded that would happen without a doubt.

Not a monopoly.
 
From Apple's press release:



The Kindle app currently switches to Safari to allow you to buy Kindle books from Amazon's web site. So with Apple's new policy, either the Kindle app disappears, or Amazon allows you to buy Kindle books via in-app purchase. Is this likely to happen?


The Kindle app won't disappear. Can't they just remove the buying books from within the app/link to safari feature? I'm sure most people wouldn't mind simply going to amazon.com themselves in safari.
 
Do people really feel it costs Apple nothing to keep the iOS eco system together? Do they not understand how distribution works?
How much does it cost MS to create and maintain Windows? They surely could charge you a percentage for every invoice you create and print with a Windows machine.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8C148a)

BornAgainMac said:
So 4.3 is going to be available sometime today?

No way is 4.3 coming today. Wont they have to seed a GM to devs first?
 
So the Kindle store is driving publishers into bankruptcy? Or is it only evil if Apple does it, but really good if Amazon does it?

The Kindle store is dealing directly with publishers. It's not forcing subscription agregators out of business, because it's not a subscription platform.

No content business runs with 30% gross margin.

A few do. But that is correct - only in the exact opposite direction to your claim. Most content businesses run on nothing like as high as a 30% gross margin. Netflix and Hulu don't.

Inevitably, some customers will use the Apple box that wouldn't have ticked the box on the website. So you make _more_ sales.

More sales when you are losing money on every sale means a bigger loss. That is not good news.

If a subscription costs $10, then every time someone ticks the box on the App Store, it is seven dollars straight in your pocket.

Unless you have to pay eight dollars in rights costs per transaction to third parties who you licence your content from. In which case it's a dollar out of your pocket.

And if you think that taking advantage of the App Store doesn't increase your sales, then don't offer it there.

I think as an iPhone owner, lots of businesses won't. I think we'll see a massive pull of high profile services that millions of people use. And I think that's very bad news for customers.

Phazer
 
Android is open-you don't have to go through the market, while you do on iOS.

And anyway, charging for something done through a program would be like Buick skimming off the top from Krogers because I put my groceries in the back seat.


No, it would be like krogers getting a cut of the Magazine you just bought from their newsstand..
 
If the purchaser wanted to buy the book from Apple they would have used iBooks. They bought it from Amazon in the Apple shopping centre. Do malls usually have a 30% cut of everything that is sold in them?

No, they charge per square foot per month, with the rate depending on location, and possibly with some rebate if your shop is one that attracts customers to the mall, plus water + electricity etc. If you are not selling well, it may be well over 30% of the purchase price.
 
Unless Apple says the prices has to be the same in-app and outside(don't know if they can do that though), then if the developer simply charges more to make up for the Apple tax, the developer could simply put up a link that says: "Why Pay 43% more than you need to? Go to our website to get 30% off of everything".

Apparently Apple won't allow that-it has to be the same or cheaper, so Apple's more likely to get to skim off the top.

The difference is, my dear Watson, that once you purchase a Puick, the Puick manufacturer does not incurr in any more expense. Got it?

I don't know what a "Puick" is, but Apple doesn't incur any more expense either.

Do people really feel it costs Apple nothing to keep the iOS eco system together? Do they not understand how distribution works?

And yet amazingly Windows, OS X, and Linux have all survived for decades without anyone skimming 30% off the top of programs sold for them. I guess that's not possible, and actually there have been no PCs since they were introduced and quickly died out in the 70's.

The people that are complaining about Apple taking 30% from customers that buy through iTunes is like complaining about any retailer taking profit from anything they sell.

You're not forced to buy things from Target if you don't want to, you can go over to K-Mart. You are forced to buy things from Apple if you use iOS.

Apple brings access to millions of new customers.
They are in the right by asking to be paid for customers that purchase through iTunes.

Huh? Again, why do they have this right? Microsoft, Apple, and others brought in millions of customers on their PCs, and didn't try to skim 30% off the top of their developers while doing so.

My goodness... this is all so basic. I just don't get it?

It is quite basic. Apple is astonishingly greedy.
 
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