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bennetsaysargh

macrumors 68020
Jan 20, 2003
2,367
0
New York
they have to go with faster G3s. if they do anything, they should lower the price of the 12" PB.

they would loose the consumer laptop market right there.
 

neutrino23

macrumors 68000
Feb 14, 2003
1,879
386
SF Bay area
The State of Maine just bought iBooks for every 7th and 8th grader and now Apple will discontinue them because they are so unpopular?

Perhaps the iBooks are about to get a major makeover sometime in the next year or so and MacBidouille got wind of current iBooks being discontinued because of that. More likely they have completely wrong information.
 

Freg3000

macrumors 68000
Sep 22, 2002
1,914
0
New York
Sure...this is must be a hard internal"debate" at Apple. Lose one of our best selling products or.....um....lose the consumer notebook market? Too easy.
 

xdfgf

macrumors newbie
May 13, 2003
5
0
Umm No

Not yet at least I do believe that the iBook will eventually transition into some sort of ultra low power Pseudo-tablet/strange-little-sony-laptop, but thats still a few years out.

ALL IMHO :)
 

AppleMatt

macrumors 68000
Mar 17, 2003
1,781
20
UK
Not a chance, the minimum spec iBook has such a massive price gap between it and the PowerBook, and the iBook offers a 14" screen on a budget (compared to 15" PB).

I'd say they're more likely to update the PowerBook 12" to bring it more in line with PowerBook standards (DESCENT SCREEN PLEASE APPLE), and continue the iBook incremental updates. Perhaps a new case? (only perhaps, minor revisions maybe)

AppleMatt
 

DGFan

macrumors 6502a
Mar 28, 2003
531
0
bump them!!

The problem is that the 15" is and will continue to be too expensive for people wanting a cheap laptop with a good sized screen. The 12" is just too small for many uses so lowering its price won't help.

Discontinuing a successful product like the iBook would be bad bad news.
 

Aciddan

macrumors member
Jun 4, 2002
90
1
Australia
Discontinuing - rather consolidating

The way I read this, they're not removing a consumer laptop, but rather considering:

1) Merging the Professional and Consumer lines as ther differences become more 'blurred' (ie dropping price of the 12" PB into a lower consumer price point) - ie merging iBook/Powerbook lines into one laptop line (with a range of performance price points based on model)

OR

2) Going 'Bugger it' and throwing higher performance G3s into the iBook range

Personally, I think option 2 is the best option - why? because necessity is the mother of innovation ;) if the iBooks creep into the Powerbook range performance wise you either have to:
a) Cripple them (very bad - I am totally against deliberate crippling on any platform)
b) make the Powerbooks better (good :D )

having higher performance iBooks is a good thing because:
1) consumers get a zippy machine at low cost
2) acts as a catlyst to increase the performance of the pro line (ie step up moves to develop higher performing G*s)

What I don't understand is everyone complaining about how increasing the performance onf the consumer line will hurt sales. Honestly, I question the performance of the Pro machines if their consumer little brothers can mix it with them! Besides, a higher performance machine at the lower end will put more 'Butts on Seats' so to speak - because not only can Joe Avg use his email, but Joe Jr. will be playing UT2k3 etc.

Competition (even internal Consumer/Pro competition) is always good - it's like gravity, the more Apples are out there, more and more people will switch...

-- Dan, who will now end his zealous rant :D
 

AppleMatt

macrumors 68000
Mar 17, 2003
1,781
20
UK
Originally posted by Glossybear
??? What is wrong with the 12" screen?

I think A DVI port, some L3 cache, and more o-the-board RAM and the 12" will REALLY turn heads.

Yes yes yes, I completely agree with you on these improvements (especially L3 cache, that was a crippling oversight), aswell as an improved graphics controller (or better drivers for the current one), and a faster hard-drive (can see more heat issues there however). Also faster start-up time and FW800/possibly USB 2.0.

But something that bothers me and many others is that the PowerBook 12" is a TFT XGA screen, whereas the 'old' 15" PowerBooks are TFT screens. When you are using them for extended periods of time, the sharpness and clarity of the 15" really shines through. It's annoying that the PowerBook is pitched as a 'Pro' line, and they used the same screen as in the iBook.

AppleMatt
 

thabih

macrumors newbie
Jul 21, 2003
10
0
As long as they keep a sub-$1000 notebook around, this is fine.

Here is what I believe Apple's product lineup should be (in case anyone gives a ****):

cheapMac
399
15inch CRT
1 GHz G3
256 MB RAM
20 GB HD
CD-ROM

coolMac
799
15 inch LCD
1.2 GHz G5
512 MB RAM
40 GB HD
Combo Drive

coolBook
799
12 inch LCD
1 GHz G3
256 MB Ram
20 GB HD
Combo Drive

powerMac
Starting at 1599
Dual 1.6 GHz G5
1 GB Ram
80 GB HD
Combo Drive

powerBook
Starting at 1599
15 inch LCD
1.2 GHz G5
512 MB Ram
40 GB HD
Combo Drive

I believe this is an elegant arrangment do-able for December. I think by getting rid of the clutter and lowering prices a bit, they can double market share to the elusive 5% in one years time.
 

Sun Baked

macrumors G5
May 19, 2002
14,883
77
Re: Make Dell happy, kill the iBook

The question of PowerBook vs iBook it isn't.

The iBook no longer fits in with the consumer product matrix, and is adequately represented in it's niche by the PB12.

The question is whether Apple will keep around the iBook as an education machine, like the old CRT iMac.

And whether the eMac will go along with it.

OS 9 booting seems to be important in the education market.

Of course they can always make Dell happy and kill off all the OS 9 machines.

NOTE: The last time I brought this up, people said universities and colleges don't need OS 9 -- but I'm refering to the k-12 crowd.
 

plinkoman

macrumors 65816
Jul 2, 2003
1,144
0
New York
Originally posted by mislabeledstar
I think it might be ideal to drop the ibook down to one size.

why? they can't get rid of the 12", it's small, and inexpensive and alot of people wan't that, they can't get rid of the 14" because alot of people want a bigger screen but can't afford a pb, it doesn't make sense to cut either of them
 

NNO-Stephen

macrumors 6502
Jun 9, 2003
278
0
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Originally posted by plinkoman
why? they can't get rid of the 12", it's small, and inexpensive and alot of people wan't that, they can't get rid of the 14" because alot of people want a bigger screen but can't afford a pb, it doesn't make sense to cut either of them

why not bump the 12" Pbook to a 14" screen with some L3 Cache and solve this whole mess?
 

Aciddan

macrumors member
Jun 4, 2002
90
1
Australia
Perhaps we're thinking of this wrong...

Maybe they're aiming to position themselves better against equivalent competitors:

(from Slashdot - they call it a potential 12" killer):

http://reviews.designtechnica.com/firstlook24.html

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/07/21/2310222&mode=thread&tid=137

Maybe they're looking to fine tune the line to make the portables more attractive given new up-and-coming offerings by competitors

Now, before we start talking about Win vs OSX or intel vs Moto/IBM - the consumer sees a 'laptop' - and feature wise there are competitor notebooks out there that have caught up over the past 12 months to apple features (DVD-R, firewire, battery, slimline etc).

I put to you this may be a possible move to have a single product in each market sector (to be more competitive):

1) Subnote (<= 12")
2) Notebook ( <= 15")
3) Desktop Replacement (>= 17") :D

perhaps they're looking at this model rather than consumer/pro but rather a single line arranged in a way that there are cheap/expensive versions of all the sizes, but a single competitive wedge to drive into the market.

-- Dan, still ranting/raving :D
 

DGFan

macrumors 6502a
Mar 28, 2003
531
0
Re: Re: Make Dell happy, kill the iBook

Originally posted by Sun Baked
The question of PowerBook vs iBook it isn't.

The iBook no longer fits in with the consumer product matrix, and is adequately represented in it's niche by the PB12.

The 14" iBook screen as quite large compared to the Powerbook's 12" screen. The 14" iBook also happens to be cheaper and isn't a frying pan.

So how exactly is that niche filled?

As to your terminology: consumer product matrix.

The iBook IS the consumer product matrix. The powerbook is a pro model.

I plan to buy an Apple laptop. If my choices are only the 12" powerbook and the 15" powerbook I will not be buying one.
 

DGFan

macrumors 6502a
Mar 28, 2003
531
0
Re: Perhaps we're thinking of this wrong...

Originally posted by Aciddan
Maybe they're aiming to position themselves better against equivalent competitors:

(from Slashdot - they call it a potential 12" killer):

http://reviews.designtechnica.com/firstlook24.html

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/07/21/2310222&mode=thread&tid=137

Sure, the Sony looks nice but it's a totally different class of machine. It's smaller yet it is $300 more. It doesn't have AGP graphics (only PCI). It's nice, but not exactly *killer*
 

PowerBook User

macrumors regular
May 29, 2003
171
0
I highly doubt Apple would discontinue the iBook. I think they willl just add a better G3 processor. The iBooks are excellent laptops. Plus they only start at $999. It's a great deal for such a good laptop. I doubt Apple could get a PowerBook G4 anywhere near that cheap to replace the iBook.
 

funkywhat2

macrumors 6502a
Jul 14, 2002
669
0
Originally posted by NNO-Stephen
why not bump the 12" Pbook to a 14" screen with some L3 Cache and solve this whole mess?

I could see that, but the difference between the 14" and the 15" may not sway some. The last thing we need is the mess from the mid 90's back - LC, Performa, PM, all with no differences. (You know what I mean.)

I think the entire PB line, 12"-17" should move to widescreen. Keep the iBook, but drop the price on each model by $100-150. Keep the G3 in it, and drop the base price on the 12" PB by at least $100 ($200?), so that if you really need to burn DVD's, you can, but at a price.

This way, by the end of the year, we should have this:

iBook 12" 900 MHz
DVD-ROM
40 GB
256 MB RAM
AirPort
$899

iBook 12" BTO 1 GHz
CD-RW (or Combo for +$75)
40 GB (or 60 for +$50)
256 MB RAM (or 512 for +$50)
AirPort
$999

iBook 14" BTO 1 GHz
Combo
40 GB (60 GB for +$50)
256MB RAM (or 512 for +$50)
AirPort
$1199

PB 12" 1.2 GHz (L3)
Combo
60 GB
512 MB RAM
AirPort Extreme
USB 2.0/FireWire 400
$ 1499

PB 12" BTO 1.2 GHz (L3)
SuperDrive
60 GB
512 MB RAM
AirPort Extreme
USB 2.0/FireWire 400 & 800
$1699

PB 15" 1.2 GHz
SD
60 GB
512 MB Ram
AirPort Extreme
USB 2.0/FireWire 400 & 800
$1999

PB 15" 1.33 BTO
SD (2x)
80 GB (100 GB for +$100)
1 GB RAM
AirPort Extreme
USB 2.0/FW 400 & 800
(Insert name of good GPU here)
Bluetooth (+$100)
$2499

PB 17" BTO
1.33 GHz G4 (1.42 for +$100)
SD (2x)
80 BG HD (100 BG for +$100)
1 GB RAM
AirPort Extreme
USB 2.0/FW 400, 800
(Same GPU as before. with double the memory)
Bluetooth
$2999

All models would include a case, and a DVI port.


Seem feasable?
 

bennetsaysargh

macrumors 68020
Jan 20, 2003
2,367
0
New York
Originally posted by AppleMatt
Not a chance, the minimum spec iBook has such a massive price gap between it and the PowerBook, and the iBook offers a 14" screen on a budget (compared to 15" PB).

I'd say they're more likely to update the PowerBook 12" to bring it more in line with PowerBook standards (DESCENT SCREEN PLEASE APPLE), and continue the iBook incremental updates. Perhaps a new case? (only perhaps, minor revisions maybe)

AppleMatt

the reason they made the 12" Powerbook is so power users can have a compact laptop.

i myself would like to see (for the iBooks) a case change, same screen sizes, and a faster G3, (maybe somehow put altivec in it) bluetooth, maybe Airpoert xtreme, and a better graphics card. i want a 14" screen, that doesn't cost a lot. that's what the iBooks are for.

oh yeah, have an option for the BTO ones where you can kill OS 9.
 
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