I like funkywhat2's lineup. Killing the ibook would be insane, it's probably the best-selling Mac.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Decision: iBook vs Powerbook?
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
This is the most depressing thing I have read this week. 
The only way I can see them doing this is if they offer a wider range of specs using the current 12" PB casing. Just make it very configurable. Maybe you should be able to get an 867MHz, 1GHz, and 1.3GHz 7457 newer G4 model with configurable graphics cards, HD capacities, and Combo and Superdrive configurations that differentiate the price enough to appease those who would prefer to purchase an iBook. If they had a 12" PB minimum configuration with a $999 price tag, I'm sure most people would be happy.
I like the Alu casing more than the iBooks, but only because the iBook casing looks so wimpy. However, the sturdiness of the iBook plastic is appealing to me. I'd rather have an iBook, but I guess it may make more sense for Apple to just have 3 laptop models. I think what I just said in the previous sentence is absolute bullcrap, but that's the only reason Apple would do this --- it makes sense for them.
The only way I can see them doing this is if they offer a wider range of specs using the current 12" PB casing. Just make it very configurable. Maybe you should be able to get an 867MHz, 1GHz, and 1.3GHz 7457 newer G4 model with configurable graphics cards, HD capacities, and Combo and Superdrive configurations that differentiate the price enough to appease those who would prefer to purchase an iBook. If they had a 12" PB minimum configuration with a $999 price tag, I'm sure most people would be happy.
I like the Alu casing more than the iBooks, but only because the iBook casing looks so wimpy. However, the sturdiness of the iBook plastic is appealing to me. I'd rather have an iBook, but I guess it may make more sense for Apple to just have 3 laptop models. I think what I just said in the previous sentence is absolute bullcrap, but that's the only reason Apple would do this --- it makes sense for them.
Killing iBooks?
When Apple first released the PowerBook G4 12", they probably dubbed it an iBook G4. There could have been a last minute change in Marketing decided it better fit the PowerBook line. And now they may have to backpaddle.
This signifies the G5 powerbook is still a gleam in Steve's eyes, but it does give Apple the chance to redesign the consumer line in line with the new aesthetics. Drop the iBooks completely, and then rename the PowerBook G4 12" as the iBook G4, and make a 14" version, same architecture. Then make significant upgrades to the 15.2" and the 17". Apple has a golden opportunity here. So the iBooks won't be dropped, just transformed, as they were probably going to do.
Jaedreth
When Apple first released the PowerBook G4 12", they probably dubbed it an iBook G4. There could have been a last minute change in Marketing decided it better fit the PowerBook line. And now they may have to backpaddle.
This signifies the G5 powerbook is still a gleam in Steve's eyes, but it does give Apple the chance to redesign the consumer line in line with the new aesthetics. Drop the iBooks completely, and then rename the PowerBook G4 12" as the iBook G4, and make a 14" version, same architecture. Then make significant upgrades to the 15.2" and the 17". Apple has a golden opportunity here. So the iBooks won't be dropped, just transformed, as they were probably going to do.
Jaedreth
iBook is safe for now... just needs a Gobi to help it along once the PB gets the "new" G4 processor.
Re: Re: Re: Make Dell happy, kill the iBook
The PowerBook 12 is a dead ringer for the G4 iBook everybody has been waiting for -- though it does lack the plastic case people would expect. Feature wise it's spot on in layout and features for a fancy G4 iBook.
Which means it's occupying the G4 iBooks niche.
It's people that have trouble seeing the PB12 as the G4 iBook that would think the Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, and Town Car are three different vehicles and wouldn't think twice about buying a Town Car but would never buy a Crown Vic because Fords suck and have reliability issues.
Just because you slap a different name on something, doesn't magically change the machinery inside.
Jadreth hits the point.
The PowerBook 12 is a dead ringer for the G4 iBook everybody has been waiting for -- though it does lack the plastic case people would expect. Feature wise it's spot on in layout and features for a fancy G4 iBook.
Which means it's occupying the G4 iBooks niche.
It's people that have trouble seeing the PB12 as the G4 iBook that would think the Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, and Town Car are three different vehicles and wouldn't think twice about buying a Town Car but would never buy a Crown Vic because Fords suck and have reliability issues.
Just because you slap a different name on something, doesn't magically change the machinery inside.
altivec
I would guess the real issue is that Apple need to get their whole processor line onto altivec asap so that they can convince developers to write as much of their software as possible for it. If apple can't get the powerbooks onto G5's fast enough I would guess that would be a reason for them to look at dropping the iBooks.
Like other people have been saying, the current 12" powerbook inards seem to be made to drop into an iBook type shell. New powerbooks will probably add l3 cache, better screen, etc.
I would guess the real issue is that Apple need to get their whole processor line onto altivec asap so that they can convince developers to write as much of their software as possible for it. If apple can't get the powerbooks onto G5's fast enough I would guess that would be a reason for them to look at dropping the iBooks.
Like other people have been saying, the current 12" powerbook inards seem to be made to drop into an iBook type shell. New powerbooks will probably add l3 cache, better screen, etc.
Wouldn't it also be just as easy to leave the size exactly the same, and those that want the 14" PowerBook with the big brother features can turn around and buy the 15".
Otherwise what's the point of making the PB12 into a 14" machine with FW800, USB2, L3 cache, etc. when the 15" machine is nearly the same size?
If they can buy a iBook to satisfy their small compact machine yearnings when the 14" is too big, why can't they buy a PB15 to satisfy their bigger is better size fetish?
apple's product line
lets all go back to the time before Jobs' return. apple had SO many different computers in production. wasn't it over 20?
the appealing thing about killing the iBook - or rather, what would be merely an elimination of certain redundancies - is that it would halt what is becoming an increasingly diverse and bloated product matrix.
the questions become - does one need 5 different laptops in production? would having 4 or maybe even 3 really hurt sales?
i like the idea of taking one out. but i'd point quite vigorously at the 17" PB as the first to go. i do so not knowing sales figures, but it just seems so far out of whack with what people will buy. i could be wrong.
i wonder about the 14" ibook. it just seems out of place. if you rank all the books in order of 'best-ness' is it above or below the 12" pb. its speed vs screen.
if apple continues to grow its product line, it should better do so with definition. there's no question where the xserve goes, or the g5, or the imac, or the emac. the g4 is a little hazy, but still relevant i'd say. the books are where things get muddy.
apple needs to figure out whats consumer and whats pro. but right now, there's a 100 dollar difference between the 14" ibook and the 12" powerbook. there needs to be better separation. and thats what i think the rumor here is meant to address.
lets all go back to the time before Jobs' return. apple had SO many different computers in production. wasn't it over 20?
the appealing thing about killing the iBook - or rather, what would be merely an elimination of certain redundancies - is that it would halt what is becoming an increasingly diverse and bloated product matrix.
the questions become - does one need 5 different laptops in production? would having 4 or maybe even 3 really hurt sales?
i like the idea of taking one out. but i'd point quite vigorously at the 17" PB as the first to go. i do so not knowing sales figures, but it just seems so far out of whack with what people will buy. i could be wrong.
i wonder about the 14" ibook. it just seems out of place. if you rank all the books in order of 'best-ness' is it above or below the 12" pb. its speed vs screen.
if apple continues to grow its product line, it should better do so with definition. there's no question where the xserve goes, or the g5, or the imac, or the emac. the g4 is a little hazy, but still relevant i'd say. the books are where things get muddy.
apple needs to figure out whats consumer and whats pro. but right now, there's a 100 dollar difference between the 14" ibook and the 12" powerbook. there needs to be better separation. and thats what i think the rumor here is meant to address.
Keep the ibook, just make it faster and give it another firewire port. it can be 400 i dont care. but a total of 2 firewire ports would make me happy.
Re: apple's product line
Spot on. Recently I had been pricing both types of Apple 'books (12" iBook and 12" PBook) in an attempt to find exactly what I wanted for college. Instead I was left with two solutions, that at first glance seem exactly the same, barring a $100 educational price difference. The screen and specs were pretty much the same, with the same performance. How can one decide? It's a bit unclear where or how the 12" Powerbook fits with the iBooks. IMO Apple should have released the 12" Powerbook as a Special Edition iBook harking back to the days of the CRT iMacs. Or, switched the entire line of iBooks over to the G4 (albeit at lower speeds and with less tech/specs than the Powerbooks.)
Instead of deciding on what type of 'book I wanted, I was turned off by the choices given by Apple. Not in terms of performance and/or speed versus the Intel world, but in terms of Apple's own products. Two almost identical 'books? What's the point?
Spot on. Recently I had been pricing both types of Apple 'books (12" iBook and 12" PBook) in an attempt to find exactly what I wanted for college. Instead I was left with two solutions, that at first glance seem exactly the same, barring a $100 educational price difference. The screen and specs were pretty much the same, with the same performance. How can one decide? It's a bit unclear where or how the 12" Powerbook fits with the iBooks. IMO Apple should have released the 12" Powerbook as a Special Edition iBook harking back to the days of the CRT iMacs. Or, switched the entire line of iBooks over to the G4 (albeit at lower speeds and with less tech/specs than the Powerbooks.)
Instead of deciding on what type of 'book I wanted, I was turned off by the choices given by Apple. Not in terms of performance and/or speed versus the Intel world, but in terms of Apple's own products. Two almost identical 'books? What's the point?
Originally posted by Abstract
This is the most depressing thing I have read this week.
The only way I can see them doing this is if they offer a wider range of specs using the current 12" PB casing. Just make it very configurable. Maybe you should be able to get an 867MHz, 1GHz, and 1.3GHz 7457 newer G4 model with configurable graphics cards, HD capacities, and Combo and Superdrive configurations that differentiate the price enough to appease those who would prefer to purchase an iBook. If they had a 12" PB minimum configuration with a $999 price tag, I'm sure most people would be happy.
I kinda like this idea. I've always really wondered at the rigid consumer/pro distinctions. You could do this right along the powerbook line, with the 15 having the same options, so the minimal 15 is the price of the current 14 iBook. Yes, you could configure a 12" that costs more than the minimal 15, but some people want performance AND the smaller size, some want a bigger screen and 867 is plenty fast. Upsides for apple include having to engineer and produce less mobos and controller chips. Downside: having to build pretty much every single box to order. I wouldn't know what to do with the 17 in this scenario, this monster is really a status item that should probably remain in an "ultimate" configuration. People buying it are probably replacing desktops anyway, right?
Correct me if I am wrong, but both the 12" and 14" iBooks have EXACTLY the same number of pixels - 1024 x 768. So although the screen is 14", it actually offers no more pixel real estate than the 12", and is way short of the 15" in resolution.
Since you have to lug a bigger laptop around, and there are no other real benefits, I have no idea why anyone buys the 14" iBook over the 12"unless they are a bit longsighted or desperately need an extra hours battery life.
C'mon Apple, make those extra inches count for something!
Re: Re: Re: Make Dell happy, kill the iBook
Here is a product matrix:
http://www.ge.com/capital/globalfinance/02_countries/02_matrix.html
Now I don't see that table or matrix if you like being replaced by on big Ibook do you?
When you are trying to make fun of people you better know what you are talking about. When he says consumer product matrix, i assume he is talking about the options available to consumers...
Here is a product matrix:
http://www.ge.com/capital/globalfinance/02_countries/02_matrix.html
Now I don't see that table or matrix if you like being replaced by on big Ibook do you?
Basically it has a bigger casing with almost the same features as the 12", so the additional space can be used for a bigger battery.
Year of the what?
I thought this was the year of the Notebook. Apple would do well to keep some variety in their line of portables. Start out with that new and improved G3 chip we've been hearing about.
Keep 'em coming
I thought this was the year of the Notebook. Apple would do well to keep some variety in their line of portables. Start out with that new and improved G3 chip we've been hearing about.
Keep 'em coming
Originally posted by panphage
Originally posted by Abstract
This is the most depressing thing I have read this week.
The only way I can see them doing this is if they offer a wider range of specs using the current 12" PB casing. Just make it very configurable. Maybe you should be able to get an 867MHz, 1GHz, and 1.3GHz 7457 newer G4 model with configurable graphics cards, HD capacities, and Combo and Superdrive configurations that differentiate the price enough to appease those who would prefer to purchase an iBook. If they had a 12" PB minimum configuration with a $999 price tag, I'm sure most people would be happy.
I kinda like this idea. I've always really wondered at the rigid consumer/pro distinctions. You could do this right along the powerbook line, with the 15 having the same options, so the minimal 15 is the price of the current 14 iBook.....
....Downside: having to build pretty much every single box to order. I wouldn't know what to do with the 17 in this scenario, this monster is really a status item that should probably remain in an "ultimate" configuration. People buying it are probably replacing desktops anyway, right?
Exactly. Like you mentioned, the only problem is that every computer is BTO. I can't figure out how they could eliminate the iBook price points without using this idea, but with everything built to order, how would Apple handle the orders? Maybe they shouldn't have too many configurations?
Also, the non-plastic case of the Alu books is still a problem for me.
And I agree with anybody who said that having a 12" PB and 12" iBook appears redundant, but they don't have to be completely different in order for Apple to produce them. If the only difference between them is the Alu and plastic casing, then so be it.
@DGFan: Does DGFan = David Gray Fan?
I'm just curious.
Well, I definitely hope Apple is not planning on sacrificing any iBooks!
Apple needs to have the two different "lines", the PowerBook and the iBook. For a minute, forget about the screen size, the screen size is pretty much helps in determining the price but more importantly the portability of the system.
They need to differentiate the lines by specs and price. The iBook has to remain cheap to stay comptetitive in the market, and that is why it is a 'consumer' machine.
The problem with the 12" PB looking a lot like the iBook is that Apple did not include any innovations in it. The G4 is still not available in them > 1Ghz, if it was, you would see a bigger difference between the iBook and the PowerBook and this whole issue would be moot.
Apple needs to have the two different "lines", the PowerBook and the iBook. For a minute, forget about the screen size, the screen size is pretty much helps in determining the price but more importantly the portability of the system.
They need to differentiate the lines by specs and price. The iBook has to remain cheap to stay comptetitive in the market, and that is why it is a 'consumer' machine.
The problem with the 12" PB looking a lot like the iBook is that Apple did not include any innovations in it. The G4 is still not available in them > 1Ghz, if it was, you would see a bigger difference between the iBook and the PowerBook and this whole issue would be moot.