Apple Demands $1 Billion From Samsung for Design Patent Violations as New Damages Trial Kicks Off

Discussion in ' News Discussion' started by MacRumors, May 15, 2018.

  1. MacRumors macrumors bot


    Apr 12, 2001

    Apple and Samsung are back in court this week for a damages retrial that will determine just how much Samsung has to pay Apple for infringing on Apple design patents. Samsung was found guilty of violating the patents back in 2012, but the two companies have been fighting over the amount of money Samsung should pay as a result for the last six years.

    The core issue between the two companies is whether the damages should be based on the total value of the device, or whether Samsung should pay a fee based just on the elements of the phone that it copied.


    Apple is of the opinion that its payment should be based on the full value of the iPhone, while Samsung is arguing that it should pay a lesser amount based only on a portion of the iPhone's value. "They're seeking profits on the entire phone," argued Samsung lawyer John Quinn. "Apple's design patents do not cover the entire phone. They are entitled to profits only on [infringing] components, not the entire phone."

    Yesterday was spent picking jurors, while opening arguments and testimony started today. Key Apple executives like Tim Cook and Jony Ive will not be testifying during the trial, but Richard Howarth, senior director of the Apple Design Team will discuss the design process, and Susan Kare will also take the stand to talk about user interface graphics design.

    Apple vice president of product marketing Greg Joswiak was first up to testify this afternoon, where he said that the design of the iPhone is central to Apple's products and that Apple took a huge risk with its development.

    Back when the verdict of the lawsuit was originally decided in 2012, Samsung was ordered to pay $1 billion, but that was eventually reduced to $548 million.


    Of that $548 million, which Samsung paid to Apple in 2015, $399 million was earmarked for the design patent infringements. Samsung at the time argued that it had been ordered to pay a "disproportionate" sum for the design violation, and appealed to the Supreme Court for reduced damages.

    Samsung's appeal was somewhat successful, and the Supreme Court ordered the U.S. Court of Appeals to redetermine the amount Samsung owes Apple for the design patent infringement, which leads us to the trial that's taking place this week.

    Apple is asking for a $1 billion award from Samsung during the damages retrial this week, and has argued that while it's a lot of money, "Samsung infringed millions and millions and millions of times." Samsung, meanwhile, has asked the jury to limit damages to $28 million.

    Article Link: Apple Demands $1 Billion From Samsung for Design Patent Violations as New Damages Trial Kicks Off
  2. ouimetnick macrumors 68020


    Aug 28, 2008
    Beverly, Massachusetts
    The article said it best
  3. techwhiz macrumors 6502a

    Feb 22, 2010
    Northern Ca.
    Funny how Apple thinks it should be full value of the phone.
    For Qualcomm they think their royalty should be based on a component, not price of device; even though their signed a contract that says otherwise.

    They want whatever works for them, even if it is contradictory.
  4. ThisIsNotMe Suspended

    Aug 11, 2008
    Just drop it.
    Instead of spending all the money on Inside and Outside Counsel maybe you could throw a couple of bucks at Siri?
    ....Just a thought....
  5. macduke macrumors G3


    Jun 27, 2007
    Central U.S.
    Since this trial first started I've graduated from college, worked three different jobs, moved three times, bought my starter home, sold my starter home and bought another home, my wife started her own business, and we've had two children—the first of which will be starting school next year. I hardly recognize my life, much less the world we live in today compared to 2011. And Apple is still suing Samsung for the same $1,000,000,000. WAT.
  6. pdaholic macrumors 65816


    Jun 22, 2011
    Do U.S. lawyers get paid a percentage of the verdict? That’s a staggering amount of money being exchanged.
  7. kanki1985, May 15, 2018
    Last edited: May 15, 2018

    kanki1985 macrumors member

    Oct 8, 2013
    I think Apple should demand $1B + interest accrued till date since the original award + Lawyer fees
  8. givemeanapple macrumors Demi-God


    Oct 2, 2016
    Is this the ridiculous Apple round corners patent?
  9. Dominicanyor macrumors 65816


    Apr 1, 2012
  10. citysnaps macrumors 601

    Oct 10, 2011
    San Francisco
  11. Will.O.Bie macrumors 6502


    Aug 29, 2016
    How do you even pick a juror for this kind of trial? They'd have to eliminate iPhone and Samsung owners to prevent bias. Where would you find a BlackBerry or Nokia phone owners to be unbiased, reasonable, and fair?
  12. Naraxus macrumors 6502a


    Oct 13, 2016
    This is beyond asinine. Apple give it up ffs.
  13. apolloa macrumors G4

    Oct 21, 2008
    Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
    Yeap, and now you can kick yourself for not being a Samsung or Apple lawyer......

    Kinda sad it’s still going on but not surprising either. It was a joke of a case because how far Apple went with its silly evidence and claims and damages amount it wants. Then again Samsung did copy some parts of Apple and could find a billion down the back of the sofa!
    All based around a phone that was out before your kids were born!
  14. dogslobber macrumors 68040


    Oct 19, 2014
    Apple Campus, Cupertino CA
    Sam sung the same tune as Apple but paid the price.
  15. ArtOfWarfare macrumors G3


    Nov 26, 2007
    Uh... how? If the iPhone had only been as successful as the Apple TV or the Apple Watch, then it's not like Apple would have tanked. They wouldn't have grown the way they have, but they could have kept humming along with the iPod (which wouldn't have died as suddenly had it not been for the iPhone) and the Mac. They had plenty of cash in the bank.

    They could have been like Nintendo, which has been around for over 100 years. Sometimes Nintendo puts out a hit product, like the GameBoy, DS, Wii, or Switch. Sometimes they put out a dud, like the GameCube or Wii U. They haven't seen the meteoric success that Apple has, but they keep chugging whenever they hit a rough patch, just like I'm sure Apple with a failure of an iPhone would have.

    Heck, maybe Apple would benefit from the iPhone failing. They couldn't rest on it and they'd be forced to put out some new products instead of continuing to iterate on existing ones.
  16. justiny Contributor


    Jul 28, 2008
    Fairfield, NJ
    Did you guys miss the first paragraph, second sentence of the article? Samsung was found GUILTY of violating Apple’s patents.

    I’m pretty confident if any company was found guilty in court of violating patents you owned, you’d want your damn money ASAP.
  17. bladerunner2000 Suspended


    Jun 12, 2015
    Apple; if you can't innovate, litigate.

    Either that or steal, Apple is shameless about that.
  18. apolloa macrumors G4

    Oct 21, 2008
    Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
    Yes and the Supreme Court agreed with Samsung that the 300 odd million the billion was reduced to was still too much hence this new case, so the high court has declared the amount they should pay has not been properly set.
    Samsung copied ‘some’ of the original iPhone design elements, not an oblong with round corners or the colours black and white!
  19. rhoydotp macrumors 6502


    Sep 28, 2006
    Exactly! Essentially Samsung is saying that they are guilty but does not want to pay the full price for knowingly doing something completely illegal.

    EDIT: to be fair, Apple have pulled similar stunts in the past too
  20. apolloa macrumors G4

    Oct 21, 2008
    Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
    And as said, the US Supreme Court, the highest in the land, agrees with Samsung. So what are you going to say to that?
  21. rhoydotp macrumors 6502


    Sep 28, 2006
    I have nothing to say to that except that it encourages companies to do illegal things, you know, to live the American Dream ;)
  22. Tramtrist, May 15, 2018
    Last edited: May 15, 2018

    Tramtrist macrumors newbie

    Sep 30, 2015
    Samsung's entire smartphone business is predicted on ripping off Apple's designs. There was nothing like a keyboard-less, touch full-screen pocket computer/phone with apps before Apple made the iPhone. Apple spent years and a huge amount of their money coming up with a revolutionary design, figuring out how it would work and how to make it. They bet the company on it. It was a huge gamble that everyone said was doomed to failure. Less than a year later Samsung's got their own b-grade phone so closely copied on Apple's designs that they look and behave almost the same. That's what this lawsuit is about. Samsung should design their own damned phone, or else pay Apple for having designed it.
  23. Piggie macrumors G3


    Feb 23, 2010
    I think this video accurately sums up many people's feeling over this..........


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