Apple Demos iMac Pro at Final Cut Pro X Creative Summit

[IA64]

I'm very interested in a Mac PRO machine but the current iMac Pro is no good in my opinion, at least for my needs.

There is absolutely no way I would go for AMD over Nvidia anyday. Most of my rendering apps rely heavily on GPU and CUDA is a must on almost all of them.

OpenCL is Ok but still a long way to go. The ability to use both CPU and GPU in rendering is a must nowadays. Only CUDA is supported in most of the professional apps available. Very few support OpenCL but then again the CUDA performs much better. One of the reasons why I'm stuck with a maxed out 2013imac with a GTX780m....

Another very worrying debate is the resale value. Assuming I go for the entry iMP, who on earth will buy a 3-4 years old non upgradable machine with 1 TB SSD? 4 years ago a maxed out iMac could support a max of 1 TB SSD. Today, a 1TB SSD is an entry level for pro. 4 years later and i expect this machine to have lost 80% of its value not to mention the new design coming in 2018.

Overall, nice design but that's just it.

 

[PickUrPoison]

I don't understand this machine, at all. Zero upgradeability, literally none. I can (barely) understand this mentality in a MacBook Pro as you want to have it thin and light, but what's the reason you cannot even upgrade the RAM in this? Add a back panel, let us add more ram and an additional stick of NVMe storage.

Pro buyers often buy fully maxed (or at least as much as they’ll need) right off the bat. Most never upgrade during the tax life of the machine, and are regularly replaced at 3 years, or even earlier if there’s sufficient reason. When your billing rate is $100, $200 or more per hour, you have a different perspective on cost. (Most non-pros never upgrade either.)

But as I understand it, the machines are upgradable by Apple or other service technician, but not necessarily user upgradable. btw, the MacBook Pro uses LPDDR3, which must be soldered. Also, Apple doesn’t use NVMe, they’ve had a screaming fast proprietary bus for several years. I wouldn’t mind a couple extra NVMe slots though!
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Couldn't agree more. Unbelievable if you can't upgrade at least the RAM. Especially with Apple's bananas RAM prices.

Pro buyers tend not to want third party RAM and the servicing issues they might encounter. They don’t really have a problem with Apple’s pricing.
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I am just throwing out examples, and that is why I capitalized "IF" but surely AMD will release a way better GPU in 2 years, and guess what...you are stuck with VEGA 2017. I know Intel is just as bad as Apple these days, constantly delaying new CPU's.

Many pros upgrade when there is a reason. If something that much better comes along in a couple of years, they’ll buy a new system.

 

[PickUrPoison]

I will say this - good to see that you don't need a whack of dongles for this iMac.

The space grey is crazy gorgeous, absolutely phenomenal.

Is a thunderbolt 3 dock a dongle? What about an eGPU? Disk array?

These are what an iMac Pro or MacBook Pro user might use; four TB3 ports give you a ton of I/O, and tremendous flexibility. Especially with MBP, with a dock at work and one at home, and just having one or two cables to plug in when moving between them? While 6 or 8 peripherals stay plugged into the dock... a pro’s dream

Apple does screw up sometimes and/ or mis-reads the market or technological trends—the Mac Pro is a great example. But a lot of pros like the MBP, and will like the iMac Pro as well. Some will prefer the new Pro, it can’t come soon enough. (Also, Nvidia support is essential for some users.)

P.S. Love the space grey too!

 

[MadeTheSwitch]

I would totally buy a cheaper version of this. It looks spectacular especially in the dark color. But this as is, well..that's just out of the question. Need a mass consumer version of this.

 

[Michael Scrip]

I would totally buy a cheaper version of this. It looks spectacular especially in the dark color. But this as is, well..that's just out of the question. Need a mass consumer version of this.

So... a Space Gray version of the regular 5K iMac?

 

[PickUrPoison]

Yes, but if it is going to cause a potential thermal issue, is it worth it? We all know iMacs are not great at thermal cooling as it is, now you are putting 8 core which should not be an issue, but the VEGA paired with a 12 or 18 core Xeon under the same thermal cooling system...I do not know about that one. We shall see, I just hope people do not spend $5,000+ and experience CPU throttling because the system gets so damn hot.

TDP is 165W for the 18 core, the 6 through 12 core are all 140W. Not a lot of difference.

I have faith that Apple can get the cooling right; they acknowledge they screwed up the thermals on the current Mac Pro, and are not particularly likely to make that mistake again. Sure it’s possible but I wouldn’t bet on it. Have you looked at what they’re doing wrt cooling on the iMac Pro?
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As nice as it looks it's a LOT of money for a locked down computer that is essentially disposable.

I don’t think you understand what the word disposable means.

 

[Naaaaak]

I have faith that Apple can get the cooling right; they acknowledge they screwed up the thermals on the current Mac Pro, and are not particularly likely to make that mistake again

Apple has been making cooling mistakes for over a decade:

• The early Power Mac G5 with liquid cooling was prone to leaking.
• The iMac G5 had overheating problems -- CPU could easily reach 188F playing games and just shutdown.
• The slot-loading iMac G3 was emphasized as fanless, pushing a marketing gimmick over common-sense engineering (but I don't know about its particular reliability over time).
• Last gen Mac Pros have had various overheating issues.
• The concept of a dust filter is completely lost on Apple. Doesn't fit the Jony Ive "one solid piece" design mantra.

Most Macs in the Intel era have fared better, but done so at the expense of underclocked GPUs and fan performance profiles that emphasize "quiet" over "coolness". Bumping the minimum fan speed a couple hundred RPM can reduce idle temps by 10F with no audible gain. If you're willing to accept a little fan noise you can usually keep your "typical use" temps much lower, too.

Almost 20 years of experience instills no confidence in me that Apple will ever do heat management correctly. I really do think most of their testing is done in 70 degree air-conditioned offices. In warm to hot climates I do not run my Macs without fan control software; bumping up the minimum fan speeds or running them at maximum is a requirement, especially in rooms without an AC.

 

[laz232]

They probably won’t. However, I suspect the issue Apple has is that the Mac Pro simply doesn’t sell in sufficient numbers these days to be profitable. I don’t think Apple ever broke even on the 2013 Mac Pro, once you factor in the costs of running that production facility for the Mac Pro alone. And like it or not, Apple is a hardware company, so it doesn’t make sense for it to support a product that’s earning it a net loss.

As Apple continues to take more design cues from their iOS devices, expect Macs to become more like iPads in the sense that they are sealed and non-upgradable, and thinner and lighter to boot.

The iMac Pro might be cheaper as it can probably be assembled alongside the regular iMac. So with Apple, it’s either do or do without. There’s still the Mac Pro refresh, but I suspect users holding out for a conventional PC form factor will be disappointed.

I'm sure you're right - but the 2013 Mac Pro was not what most Pros wanted either. Absolutely no pro was asking for a hyper custom, pretty dongle fest! They could have reimagined the cheese grater, saved themselves thermal issues, millions in redesign and made a profit. Instead Tim Cook had a circle jerk with Jony Ive and the lifestyle team and in a collective fever dream they created a a Dali-esque Pro machine...

Tim Cook supposedly has an engineering degree (Industrial Engineering) - but he clearly has no idea what professionals (such as engineers) actually do with their machines.'m sure it will appeal to the Youtube "professionals". Photography pros would prefer screen options (I know I would) - engineering pros would prefer expandibility and not being limited to the reliability vagaries of a monitor + computer hybrid.

 

[hogo]

Wow, so all you gotta do is make it gray and people are going crazy over the(old) design? The internals are good, for now, but man that’s a huge investment for a piece of gear that will have a fairly limited shelf life. Ymmv of course. A modular Mac Pro has more interest for me, especially if it doesn’t look EXACTLY like an older version of their own computer.

 

[eduardoreal]

Please, do as I do, build a double monitor Hackintosh 4k 64gb ram 3 ssd 2 in RAID 0 + 2 HD 2Tb and Nvidia 1080 8gb.

Simply spectacular, MacOS Sierra walks a silk and do not spend US $ 2,000.

 

[nick42983]

Disagree. Let’s say I have an employee I pay $50K a year (graphics/animation or similar field). I buy an iMac Pro for $10K and plan on keeping it for only 2 years. So that iMac Pro increases my costs for that employee by 10%.

Do you think an employee on a brand new workstation will see their productivity rise by only 10%? Especially when compared to using a machine that’s already 2 years old? How about the reduced chance of missed deadlines due to increased performance and productivity? How do you even put a price on that?

You could easily justify buying this machine and throwing it in the garbage every 2 years and you’ll still come out ahead. And this doesn’t even take into account the tax write off your business would get when you buy the machine.

If you make money off content creation or a related field, then this machine is easily a sound financial investment.

Thank you for one of very few reasonable takes from an actual professional, not a make-believe "pro" like the many populating the forums. The point is whether the machine does the work you need it to for a reasonable amount of time so that the productivity increase justifies the expense, not to be able to add RAM incrementally and tinker to make the thing run for a decade. Nothing wrong with wanting to maximize your investment, but this machine isn't meant for hobbyists, prosumers or freelancers who barely eek out a living. For those very special "pro" snowflakes, a new Mac Pro will be coming out within 1-2 years and there will be plenty more to complain about. If your livelihood actually revolves around your computer, a $5-10k machine that meets your needs for several years or more is a good investment. People spend more than that on a car in the same timeframe without blinking an eye, woes be on Apple if they ever release a car though, we'll never hear the end of it from the "pro" drivers who can't afford it.

 

[laz232]

Thank you for one of very few reasonable takes from an actual professional, not a make-believe "pro" like the many populating the forums. The point is whether the machine does the work you need it to for a reasonable amount of time so that the productivity increase justifies the expense, not to be able to add RAM incrementally and tinker to make the thing run for a decade. Nothing wrong with wanting to maximize your investment, but this machine isn't meant for hobbyists, prosumers or freelancers who barely eek out a living. For those very special "pro" snowflakes, a new Mac Pro will be coming out within 1-2 years and there will be plenty more to complain about. If your livelihood actually revolves around your computer, a $5-10k machine that meets your needs for several years or more is a good investment. People spend more than that on a car in the same timeframe without blinking an eye, woes be on Apple if they ever release a car though, we'll never hear the end of it from the "pro" drivers who can't afford it.

As an engineering business owner that uses their Macbook Pro 10+hours per day, I would consider a Pro desktop (with better CPU / RAM) - for running simulations, but his iMac Pro represents poor value for money. I can afford it - just like I can afford a 10k oscilloscope without financing - for my business, but I'm not interested in wasting money on machine that, for me - and many other professionals outside of Apple's narrow music producer / photopgrapher view point is thoroughly underwhelming and a poor fit to our needs.

It's like the Touchbar on the MBPs - another Apple "innovation" that I've not heard any pro being excited about - they (we) would much rather have a more reliable keyboard, additional USB-A ports and better battery life!

NB the reason I'm ranting about this is because within the few years since Tim Cooks Apple has taken over from the previous administration - I see the platform that I rely on for my daily work shifting further and further away from a useful productivity tool and into something that no longer servers my purpose, without a clear alternative to move over to.

 

[Lancer]

Damn wish I could afford one, way cheaper to get a cam on black paint and spray my old iMac!

 

[jonnysods]

Is a thunderbolt 3 dock a dongle? What about an eGPU? Disk array?

These are what an iMac Pro or MacBook Pro user might use; four TB3 ports give you a ton of I/O, and tremendous flexibility. Especially with MBP, with a dock at work and one at home, and just having one or two cables to plug in when moving between them? While 6 or 8 peripherals stay plugged into the dock... a pro’s dream

Apple does screw up sometimes and/ or mis-reads the market or technological trends—the Mac Pro is a great example. But a lot of pros like the MBP, and will like the iMac Pro as well. Some will prefer the new Pro, it can’t come soon enough. (Also, Nvidia support is essential for some users.)

P.S. Love the space grey too!

The issue for me (I have the 2016b tbmbp) is that on top of the almost $4k I spent on the unit, the only option for a dock/hub thing is that that they are $300+ on top of that. TB3 is incredible and diverse so I think it was the right move. Just hurts the pocket book....

 

[Abazigal]

I'm sure you're right - but the 2013 Mac Pro was not what most Pros wanted either. Absolutely no pro was asking for a hyper custom, pretty dongle fest! They could have reimagined the cheese grater, saved themselves thermal issues, millions in redesign and made a profit. Instead Tim Cook had a circle jerk with Jony Ive and the lifestyle team and in a collective fever dream they created a a Dali-esque Pro machine...

https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2016/11/4/apple-is-placing-a-big-bet-with-the-new-macbook-pro

You may want to read this article if you can spend a little time. I think it does provide some insight into why Apple designed the Mac they way they did.

Suffice to say, the Apple design team has their own views and thoughts on what the user experience of Macs ought to entail and that doesn't involve tons of ports or customisation.

So "pro" users will either have to trust that Apple's vision is the right one moving forward, or migrate to Windows.

Tim Cook supposedly has an engineering degree (Industrial Engineering) - but he clearly has no idea what professionals (such as engineers) actually do with their machines.'m sure it will appeal to the Youtube "professionals". Photography pros would prefer screen options (I know I would) - engineering pros would prefer expandibility and not being limited to the reliability vagaries of a monitor + computer hybrid.

It seems that what Apple is trying to do here is bring "pro" to the masses, rather than simply meeting the needs of a niche group of users.

Take the Touch Bar for instance. I imagine someone at Apple thought "Hey, there are a whole bunch of function keys no one ever uses. Why not expand on them by converting them into a touchscreen strip that changes dynamically based on what you are doing? This way, it's not so wasted."

Sounds good in theory, though real-world usage has been quite mixed.

Then you have thinner and lighter MBPs. Again, my guess is that Apple felt that a thinner and lighter device is a better device for everyone, regardless of whether they are "pro" or not.

Conversely, not everyone upgrades their laptops, so expandability is necessarily not a feature prized by everyone, and it makes a computer thicker and bulkier, which does affect everyone.

I dunno. Apple is following a very weird path here. I admit I don't even understand their whole "Grand Unified Theory of Apple Products" rationale put forth by Phil Schiller.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...rview-phil-iphone-ios-criticism-a7393156.html

Maybe someone else here can?

 

[dazzer21-2]

...when it comes to big business it’s ridiculous. You lease machines, not ****ing upgrade them.

WHY has it taken so long for someone to say this?

 

[aliensporebomb]

Gorgeous with that space grey.

 

[maikerukun]

Honest question, as I don't work in video production: what is the minimum screen size for you?

I don't know his, but my side business is my post production company, I do anywhere from 50k to 80k a year from it, so I consider myself professional despite it being my side thing, and over the course of 2017, I've edited 3 feature films, color corrected 2 feature films, and have been VFX Supervisor on 3 feature films as well as about 17 shorts and commercials.

I did ALL of this on my 2017 27inch maxed out iMac and until that realized in July, I was doing it on a maxed out 2014 27inch iMac. I have two 27 inch monitors attached on both sides of the iMac and I use my left monitor for preset, plugin, asset management, my main screen for my timelines and main canvas (FCPX, Avid, Premier, After Effects, Cinema 4D, etc...), and I use my right screen for media bins, etc...

This setup works perfectly for me, and the only time a bigger screen comes into play is when I pass the 444XQ assets off to various other departments "for stage" - which means, they are going to be watching it on a private screening room screen, which is typically a baby theater that seats about 50".

So I really honestly have no idea what it is this guy is complaining about beyond a 27inch monitor lol. I'm dead serious, I have no idea what he's doing that requires a bigger monitor lol. I've cut and colored films that have run on the iMax Chinese Theater 70mm Laser projection system and they were made on my iMac lol. I'm being dead serious, I have no idea what he's talking about.

Wanting a bigger screen? Sure, of course, the bigger the better, but 3 27inch monitors is literally all I need and I will produce the highest possible quality. The 27 inch iMac monitor is fantastic for color IF YOU CALIBRATE FOR SUCH. If you do not, then you aren't taking full advantage of your tools.

And just to input on price of this new iMac, if it maxes out at $12k, I will likely purchase it, because A) I can write it off, B) I generally pull an average 70k off of digital media work, so a $12k investment stretched over 2 years is literally $1,000/month to play which basically means from my digital media work alone, I make 5k/month instead of 6k...I'm okay with that.

Let alone my 2014 and 2017 iMacs become render farms for the 2018 iMac Yeah, I'm definitely okay with that...

 

[eco7777]

Somebody tell Tim Cooks that there is a rogue team at apple making computers so he can shut them down and make stupid little phones.

 

[SRLMJ23]

TDP is 165W for the 18 core, the 6 through 12 core are all 140W. Not a lot of difference.

I have faith that Apple can get the cooling right; they acknowledge they screwed up the thermals on the current Mac Pro, and are not particularly likely to make that mistake again. Sure it’s possible but I wouldn’t bet on it. Have you looked at what they’re doing wrt cooling on the iMac Pro?
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I don’t think you understand what the word disposable means.

Yes, posted a link for a few people that shows how Apple is cooling the iMac Pro in this very thread, and I watched the WWDC. It looks impressive, I just hope it does its job.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Sexy in black...

But too expensive for my needs.

Yeah baby!

Sexy Black Supa_Starrrrr iMac.

Darth Vader Grey!

That Magic Mouse though ... screams to have Chef's voice "Don't spray on it baby"

 

[guzhogi]

I don't know his, but my side business is my post production company, I do anywhere from 50k to 80k a year from it, so I consider myself professional despite it being my side thing, and over the course of 2017, I've edited 3 feature films, color corrected 2 feature films, and have been VFX Supervisor on 3 feature films as well as about 17 shorts and commercials.

Cool, thanks. I guess different strokes for different folks.

 

[NY Guitarist]

I don’t think you understand what the word disposable means.

Please enlighten me.

Once this thing is out of warranty any repairs will likely be cost prohibitive versus resale value, and a newer computer will be a viable alternative.
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No one is gonna simply throw these away, right?

I don't see their resale value being strong as newer models are released. Plus, if a major component fails it's less likely to be repaired due to cost or inability for that particular component to be replaced on its own.

The cMP tower resale market was very strong and longevity sustained due to it's upgradeability.

 

[Michael Scrip]

I don't see their resale value being strong as newer models are released. Plus, if a major component fails it's less likely to be repaired due to cost or inability for that particular component to be replaced on its own.

The cMP tower resale market was very strong and longevity sustained due to it's upgradeability.

Assuming this iMac Pro isn't broken after 4-5 years... it will still be a beast of a machine. That was my point.

An 8-core Xeon... with 32GB RAM... 1TB PCIe SSD... and Vega graphics on a 5K screen.

It would be more than capable running Microsoft Word in an office or school somewhere.

Sure... you're not gonna get most of the $5,000 back after 4-5 years. But you wouldn't anyway with any other machine.

My point was it will still be a hell of a machine... and someone will buy it.

 

[Steve121178]

I would totally buy a cheaper version of this. It looks spectacular especially in the dark color. But this as is, well..that's just out of the question. Need a mass consumer version of this.

iMac?