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Apple Designing More Functional Products Since Jony Ive's Departure, Argues Bloomberg Reporter
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Customer isn’t right just because they are the ones buying the products.
So for decades, Jobs + Ive collaborate and knock it out of the park consistently. Then for the last few years Cook + Ive work together and stagnate.
Apple's product design has improved since former design chief Jony Ive left the company in 2019, according to an opinion column by Bloomberg reporter Alex Webb.
Webb believes that Apple has reemphasized function over form since Ive's departure. For example, while the design of the previous Siri Remote for the Apple TV made it easy to pick up the remote upside down by accident, a new Siri Remote was released in May with an improved design and added power and mute buttons for a TV.
There's also the new 14-inch and 16-inch MacBook Pro models this week, which feature the return of several ports that Apple had removed in 2016, including an HDMI port, an SD card slot, and MagSafe. Function over form certainly applies here, as the new MacBook Pro models are slightly thicker and heavier than the previous-generation models, but gain back expanded connectivity that many professional users appreciate having.
Webb argued that the flat edges on the iPhone 12 and iPhone 13 models also prioritizes function over form, arguing that the curved edges on previous iPhones made the display prone to cracking if the devices were dropped on their sides.
"There is merit in sometimes listening to your customers, particularly when the pendulum has swung too far away from function and towards form," wrote Webb. "After all, you're liable to lose professional customers – architects, musicians, film-makers – if they can't plug their laptops into external monitors. And professional users can afford to pay for the top-of-the-range devices that are more profitable to Apple."
Webb acknowledges that perhaps at least some of these design changes would have happened under Ive, but he ultimately feels there has been a change of philosophy.
We also think it's worth noting that Ive might have had a hand in designing some of the aforementioned products before his departure, and possibly even after given that Apple announced it would remain a primary client of Ive's independent design firm LoveFrom. Apple said that Ive was involved with the design of the colorful 24-inch iMac released last April, well over a year after he departed the company.
Of course, as Webb notes, Apple would not be the same today without Ive, a highly-respected creative who helped design some of the company's most iconic products, ranging from the iMac and iPod to the iPhone and iPad.
Article Link: Apple Designing More Functional Products Since Jony Ive's Departure, Argues Bloomberg Reporter
And the herd here thinks Ive is the problem?
realy... the 16" replaced the old intel 16"...
the 14" replaced the 15"
I think people are probably forgetting the iPad needs a bit of bezel to hold it. The Mac doesn’t have that issue.
It could have 6mm bazel on top and other 3.5mm. Would look so much better than notched.
You CAN NOT judge a designer by what's happening today. JI and his team have been raising the bar for 20 years its only in the last few years that industrial design has caught up with him. Same for a lot of creative industries you'll get pioneers that raise that whole industry as everyone learns and also software & technology evolves. Cant judge a Designer in a vacum.
I sort of... agree with the Bloomberg opinion. However, the latest 24" M1 iMac's are clearly form over function. It is arguably what an iPad pro should be able to do with a smaller screen.
It also ships with a max of 512GB SSD storage and 8Gb of ram and a cost of £600 to upgrade to a 2TB. I just upgraded one of my older i7 iMac's with a crucial MX500 2TB SSD and it cost £320 all in at my local IT repair shop. I will not even start on the RAM config.
So Mr Ive cannot be blamed for this, or past designs. Designers are designers..., they often cannot see past their designs. However he was not the CEO - so the buck stops higher up the food chain IMO.
It also ships with a max of 512GB SSD storage and 8Gb of ram and a cost of £600 to upgrade to a 2TB. I just upgraded one of my older i7 iMac's with a crucial MX500 2TB SSD and it cost £320 all in at my local IT repair shop. I will not even start on the RAM config.
So Mr Ive cannot be blamed for this, or past designs. Designers are designers..., they often cannot see past their designs. However he was not the CEO - so the buck stops higher up the food chain IMO.
Yep, my late 2013 15" is still here and going strong. 16" Max coming in the next 4 weeks.... finally!
I think Jony was and still is a personality cult. Quality is a balance of function and form. Jony is all form which has lead to some quite frankly stupid designs. The last decade or so of MacBook decline is the canonical example. Everyone else is a race to the bottom with as much function as they can muster within the budget constraints. Take the middle road please apple.
You know, you’re right. Suddenly I don’t understand the complaints, or why a company like Apple full of smart people made a decision to broaden back a typically-used port for convenience. Crazy!
It might help to not look at it like YOU look at things but how many others look at the inherent convenience of a laptop.
Why do people want a laptop vs. a Mac mini or iMac or Mac pro? To “stand alone” for a given workday. To operate via battery and not have to plug in a cord…to not have to pull out a wireless mouse from their bag…to have a built-in monitor for a majority of their usage time…to ideally have a large enough harddrive to not need to always plug in an external drive.
Apparently, enough users lump in HDMI connectivity with the above. I think to many, buying a MBP with that port feels as ”convenient and expected” as their MBP arriving already charged.
And this all plays well into the current re-awakening of customers who are a little fed-up with certain tasks taking longer than before just for the sake of what’s being acknowledged as over-the-top form-over-function minimalism injections into Apple hardware & software.
Maybe enough MBP buyers are not upper echelon professionals willing to buy (or already owning) all the accessories needed to use their MBP with typical monitors/equipment they may come across in a given day. Maybe many are rather turned off by having to buy something else after shelling out $1500+ for an expensive piece of hardware.
Finally, all it takes is a single instance of a commonly-used dongle or adapter being forgotten, misplaced, left at home or in the car, or being broken at a key time it’s needed to plant the seed of wishing there was a given port already there that used to be there. I have yet to have a port go bad in my Apple computers, and they’re always there.
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So glad Jony left the company. Tim, Phil and Scott should follow him. Imagine Apple going back to "just works". Imagine an Apple that doesn't cancel OpenGL/Vulkan but giving you the most awesome and the fastest implementations of those standards.
Imagine an Apple that offers the best compatibility possible? A Mac that just syncs no matter if it is an iPhone or an Android phone - like it used to be with cellphones and iSync.
Imagine an Apple that ships with native Docker support. Or an Apple that uses Container Technology like Docker to continue running old 32Bit applications?
All of this is possible, but it needs different people. Different people that think different again.
Imagine an Apple that offers the best compatibility possible? A Mac that just syncs no matter if it is an iPhone or an Android phone - like it used to be with cellphones and iSync.
Imagine an Apple that ships with native Docker support. Or an Apple that uses Container Technology like Docker to continue running old 32Bit applications?
All of this is possible, but it needs different people. Different people that think different again.
I fail to see how the new MacBooks are "more functional". They simply substitute one of the universal ports with a built-in limited-functionality USB-C switch. In the end, functionality is in the eye of the beholder. For my office setup, the new port configuration is less functional because it leaves me with fewer usable ports.
Check out post #287. I think it’s fair that many equate “more functional” as “more convenient” in this case. Maybe that’ll help you see things beyond your own perspective. I don’t know about you but I want to not need to tote/add on a monitor, keyboard, trackpad, storage, or a keyboard when I’m out and about with my charged macbook. As I encounter and need to connect to an HDMI monitor often enough to notice, the HDMI port is one of those things for which I feel a great benefit when my MacBook is conveniently ready to connect to the usually-there cord.
And one might counter with: for your office setup that’s not moving around (I assume), “how hard is it for you to buy a hub” and leave it there.
Oh, I don't disagree. The new Macs are definitely more convenient for many users as they make carrying around a dongle unnecessary in most cases. I think it's fair to make a machine more convent for many even if it means making it less convenient for just a few. Still, I would have preferred to keep a fourth USB-C port*
*this is also quite a genius move by Apple to be honest because they can simultaneously show that they are listening to the pros and are willing to admit their mistakes AND also find a way to skip those 4x additional PCIe lanes and the third thunderbolt controller
And of Corus ether can make more money from the proprietary MagSafe. users happy, Apple saves money, everyone happy.
I'm a little late to the discussion here, and there are probably only three other people reading this now, but let's get a little perspective on Jony Ive…
First of all, he's human. Humans make mistakes. Even the most brilliant ones. Jony is no exception. Yes, we can all point to Apple products over the last 20+ years that were deeply flawed in some way. Is one defined by their failures? According to most MR readers, yes. I say no. The man and his design team still had a remarkable success rate if you look at the totality of their work.
If I asked you to choose one word to describe Jony Ive, what would it be? Minimalistic? Rambling? Pretentious? How about brave. If you're another 'creative', you probably know what I'm talking about. The very act of creating something, of investing so much time and energy into it, and then putting it out there for the public to behold and judge… that always takes some courage. But to come out with a translucent candy-coloured computer when the whole industry says computers have to be beige… well, that takes some real balls. Jobs had courage to let him do it too. Remember, this was at a time when most most commentators were predicting Apple's imminent demise. They pretty much bet the whole company on this. And, well, history proved them right. But imagine if the first iMac had been a huge flop… Apple, as well as Jobs' and Ive's personal reputations, would have been shot, and that shiny iPhone 13 you're holding now would never have happened in this particular universe. Perhaps you should stop and think about that for a moment before declaring 'GOOD RIDDANCE!' to a man who had a very central role in Apple's survival, revival, and eventual dominance of an industry.
PS: There's a lot of misuse of the word 'design' in this thread, as though design refers only to things like rounded corners and shiny textures. Design is a broad term that encompasses both form and function. It's a marriage of the two really—the better the design, the more successful the marriage.
First of all, he's human. Humans make mistakes. Even the most brilliant ones. Jony is no exception. Yes, we can all point to Apple products over the last 20+ years that were deeply flawed in some way. Is one defined by their failures? According to most MR readers, yes. I say no. The man and his design team still had a remarkable success rate if you look at the totality of their work.
If I asked you to choose one word to describe Jony Ive, what would it be? Minimalistic? Rambling? Pretentious? How about brave. If you're another 'creative', you probably know what I'm talking about. The very act of creating something, of investing so much time and energy into it, and then putting it out there for the public to behold and judge… that always takes some courage. But to come out with a translucent candy-coloured computer when the whole industry says computers have to be beige… well, that takes some real balls. Jobs had courage to let him do it too. Remember, this was at a time when most most commentators were predicting Apple's imminent demise. They pretty much bet the whole company on this. And, well, history proved them right. But imagine if the first iMac had been a huge flop… Apple, as well as Jobs' and Ive's personal reputations, would have been shot, and that shiny iPhone 13 you're holding now would never have happened in this particular universe. Perhaps you should stop and think about that for a moment before declaring 'GOOD RIDDANCE!' to a man who had a very central role in Apple's survival, revival, and eventual dominance of an industry.
PS: There's a lot of misuse of the word 'design' in this thread, as though design refers only to things like rounded corners and shiny textures. Design is a broad term that encompasses both form and function. It's a marriage of the two really—the better the design, the more successful the marriage.
My take is that the HDMI port is there for conference room meetings. You don’t need the HDMI port to be capable of supporting 4K for that; most screens are either 1080p or even still VGA.
Then, back at your desk, you are likely still going to want a hub to connect your multiple 4K displays and other peripherals, and that’s what the Thunderbolt Display is for (and this adaptor is likely to stay docked at your desk). Or the LG5k displays for anyone still using those.
The end result is one less dongle to bring around with you for meetings. That’s really all that is for. Maybe it’s a huge deal, maybe it isn’t, but people have been making a lot of noise over it for a while now, and good for them, I guess.
I'm a little late to the discussion here, and there are probably only three other people reading this now, but let's get a little perspective on Jony Ive…
First of all, he's human. Humans make mistakes. Even the most brilliant ones. Jony is no exception. Yes, we can all point to Apple products over the last 20+ years that were deeply flawed in some way. Is one defined by their failures? According to most MR readers, yes. I say no. The man and his design team still had a remarkable success rate if you look at the totality of their work.
If I asked you to choose one word to describe Jony Ive, what would it be? Minimalistic? Rambling? Pretentious? How about brave. If you're another 'creative', you probably know what I'm talking about. The very act of creating something, of investing so much time and energy into it, and then putting it out there for the public to behold and judge… that always takes some courage. But to come out with a translucent candy-coloured computer when the whole industry says computers have to be beige… well, that takes some real balls. Jobs had courage to let him do it too. Remember, this was at a time when most most commentators were predicting Apple's imminent demise. They pretty much bet the whole company on this. And, well, history proved them right. But imagine if the first iMac had been a huge flop… Apple, as well as Jobs' and Ive's personal reputations, would have been shot, and that shiny iPhone 13 you're holding now would never have happened in this particular universe. Perhaps you should stop and think about that for a moment before declaring 'GOOD RIDDANCE!' to a man who had a very central role in Apple's survival, revival, and eventual dominance of an industry.
PS: There's a lot of misuse of the word 'design' in this thread, as though design refers only to things like rounded corners and shiny textures. Design is a broad term that encompasses both form and function. It's a marriage of the two really—the better the design, the more successful the marriage.
An actually well-thought, rational, deep post on MacRumors? I must be stuck in a parallel universe.
(anyway, thank you, it was a pleasure to read)
So that’s why nearly every iPhone he was involved with had a camera bump, ports and buttons?
How is it possible that Ive is responsible for all these things yet checked out at the same time?