Apple Developing ARM-Based Mac Chip to Handle Low-Power Functions Alongside Intel Processors

[kyykesko]

MBPro 2016 = Transitional Product
MBPro 20xx = Fusion Product with x86 and ARM
MBPro 20xx = ARM Product

This is just the transition occurring. Introduce the ARM chip for auxiliary functions as the TouchBar then offload more functions and feature until its takes over completely. It will assist developers to transition as well. I would not be surprised if there was an iOS mode available and this will be Apples answer to the SurfaceBook.

That sounds about the same as offering a Mercedes-flavor Wunderbaum for your Trabant to make it an answer to an actual Mercedes. Macs are for work, iOS is for play. Please don't mix them up any more than you have to. Dual-OS devices are useless for the majority of people. Nobody in their right mind wants to keep switching between the OSes constantly.

I really do hope they stay with Intel chips. ARM has it's benefits but I don't want to be stuck in that sandbox again.
[doublepost=1486033869][/doublepost]Saving power is good. Doing that in Power Nap mode instead of when actually using the machine, not so much. Well, any savings is good but that makes pretty much zero difference to my daily use. I'm still stuck with subpar battery in a machine that hogs it down in a matter of few hours no matter what I do. Give me a 15" Macbook Air and I'll buy one. I'm willing to sacrifice power at this point to get decent battery life with a 15" FHD min resolution. I can even live without retina screen. I'm getting desperate with these damned pocket calculators.

 

[MacBH928]

I am confused, if you include more coprocessors doesn't that make the machine consumer more electricity and be more expensive?

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

I am confused, if you include more coprocessors doesn't that make the machine consumer more electricity and be more expensive?

No, because the co-processor only operates when it's required. And by taking tasks away from the main Intel processor, it would be saving power as the ARM processor would be more power efficient.

 

[UltimaKilo]

Apple is stuck in a transition phase, much like it was in 2008 with its PCs. Wait until intel (and maybe even AMD) perfect 10nm tech in two years or so and you'll have both the battery life and performance everyone here wants in a Mac. There's also some huge iGPU improvements in the pipeline.

 

[nt5672]

I actually want a thinner MBP. Seriously.

Which is fine as long as there are choices for fatter, more performant with needed connections (without carrying around a bunch of dongles).
[doublepost=1486036536][/doublepost]

Another day, another ridiculous comment implying that a company the size of Apple only works on one thing at a time.

Nope, we are implying that Apple only works on one GOOD thing at a time.

 

[mkeeley]

CISC isn't more powerful, it's just less efficient. You should google it. You're missing the point entirely. As "a data scientist" you should know that data processing at scale is done in parallel and in that scenario using numerous, less powerful, processors always outperforms faster single processors. The key metric today is performance per watt, since power usage limits how processor dense your design is and the total throughput of the machine.

x86 isn't really CISC anymore anyway.

 

[DevNull0]

The key metric today is performance per watt, since power usage limits how processor dense your design is and the total throughput of the machine.

Well it is if you want to run your "Pro" machine off 2 cubic centimeters of battery volume.

 

[Tech198]

just a technological reason to say "Lets put 'Low power mode' in a Mac"

Seems 'Power Nap' just ain't good enough.. We want something better.

 

[djcerla]

Which is fine as long as there are choices for fatter, more performant with needed connections (without carrying around a bunch of dongles

So, a gaming laptop from Apple. Don't hold your breath.

Dongles: the new MBP has 4 of the most powerful, versatile and modern ports on the market. Why in hell would I want to downgrade? Everything will be USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 soon.

 

[Coyote2006]

God, I hate all these comments with such a passion.

Like any problem.... blindly throw money!
It shows what incredible lack of fundamental understanding of tech these commentators have.

In this case.... the main issue w/ Intel is chip delays. Would Apple owning them magically fix this?? No.
So, why again would Apple buy Intel?? What an insane idea.

Did I say "Apple must buy Intel"? No, I did not. I just asked a simple question.

And I don't see how my post should reflect my technical know-how in any ways.

But you seem to be 100% sure that Apple is capable to bring up its own processors up to a pro level without any issues? So much to your fundamental understanding of tech...

 

[ljonesj]

Lol they said that about thunderbolt 1 and 2 but the cost of those decices are still expensive and u can hardly find a USB-c cheap device unless u have a cable to convert the computer end to it there are more USB -a ended devices out there cheap

 

[itguy06]

I believe people are fooled by benchmarks nowadays. To be precise, different architectures are hardly comparable.
A CISC processor (x86) is much more powerful than a RISC processor(ARM).

Im not sure what this means for the future, but I as a data scientist for example will need a powerful system which is able to process a lot of big data in short time. Honestly I prefer macOS over other OS, but I also need to run smaller non-commercial cross-Platform tools and i don't see the developers rewriting their tools for an ARM processor.

You have that in reverse - RISC is much more powerful than CISC. You should know that being a data scientist.

 

[Loge]

I still don't understand why some people buy a Mac if they need to run Windows. And it makes no sense at all if your primary need is to run Windows. Just buy a Windows PC!

Some people need to run windows apps as well as Mac apps, and don't want to buy two computers.

 

[apolloa]

Apple is DOOM

Haha I was waiting for this... I like it when they get printers and cameras to run the game!

 

[nutjob]

x86 isn't really CISC anymore anyway.

That's also true but the legacy architecture is still a real millstone around Intel's neck. The front end overhead is a real killer at very low power.
[doublepost=1486043624][/doublepost]

True, of course, if I let run analyses on servers. If I'm working on my local pc (main tool R) I need a powerful CPU due to a very bad mutlicore parallel computing support of R (packages are almost useless to implement parallel computing due to the language itself R is written in).
Let's see what the future brings, I'm excited

Well software has lagged for a while, but with the death of Moore's law the pressure will build for more parallelism in software.

 

[bluespark]

I'm all for ARM chips, but Apple stated the Intel uses very little power in nap mode, so the ARM chip isn't really adding anything in that aspect. They should address the much much bigger issue, that when not in nap mode the 10-hour battery drains in much less than 10 hours when using pro level software, and remember, the the MB Pro is named as a pro machine. For those who say you can get 10 hours when reading emails and browsing the web, you can do that on a MB Air or just a plain MB. This is a MB Pro... where's the 10 hours when using pro level applications?

I agree that battery life is a big issue on a pro laptop. My guess is that the benefits of a secondary ARM processor would also be realized during the operations you describe, by offloading less taxing functions. But the proof is the pudding, as they say.

 

[Carlanga]

Meanwhile Microsoft has a new Windows 10 update in the works that runs x86 code on ARM processors with no code changes. NOT RT but the full Windows 10.. Here is full Adobe Photoshop running on Windows 10 FULL VERSION on a Snapdragon ARM 835;

runs slow, photoshop looked laggy even the simple game.... btw is NOT running full windows 10 IMO, its just running emulation of win inside of arm windows. You could have done the same w the surface rt if it would have been powerful enough to emulate win/exe. I still use my RT as my tablet and its a great machine, but with limitations.

 

[thespacekid]

This looks like an attempt to increase the use of ARM processors in Mac computers. Ideally you would have it incorporated into the die so in addition to multi cores you have some cores that are very low power.

 

[code-m]

That sounds about the same as offering a Mercedes-flavor Wunderbaum for your Trabant to make it an answer to an actual Mercedes. Macs are for work, iOS is for play. Please don't mix them up any more than you have to. Dual-OS devices are useless for the majority of people. Nobody in their right mind wants to keep switching between the OSes constantly.

I really do hope they stay with Intel chips. ARM has it's benefits but I don't want to be stuck in that sandbox again.
[doublepost=1486033869][/doublepost]Saving power is good. Doing that in Power Nap mode instead of when actually using the machine, not so much. Well, any savings is good but that makes pretty much zero difference to my daily use. I'm still stuck with subpar battery in a machine that hogs it down in a matter of few hours no matter what I do. Give me a 15" Macbook Air and I'll buy one. I'm willing to sacrifice power at this point to get decent battery life with a 15" FHD min resolution. I can even live without retina screen. I'm getting desperate with these damned pocket calculators.

There may very well be a version of MacOS that runs on ARM. Remember when Steve Jobs announced that OSX was running on PPC and x86 for a long time co-developed. I suspect the same occurring here where MacOS is running on x86 and ARM.

Users do not have to switch between iOS and MacOS, I believe Apple has made that clear, it may very well be some hybrid. We see elements of iOS in MacOS for a number of years. The attitude here is either iOS or MacOS, we need to think outside the box here it will be something different however familiar to the user.

Windows is being coded to run on ARM, when developers start migrating as well, I believe most of these fears will be put to rest. If anything I would not be surprised by any of this development, I am very interested in its implementation and execution.

Stay tuned.

 

[robeddie]

yeah, thats what we want. thicker heavier computers rather than new advancements in technology :sheesh:

So is your only measurement of 'advancement of technology' how thin and light your device is? I agree, its one thing to consider, but power, flexibility, longer battery life - they should also come with it. In apples world, its thin and light, and the rest is an afterthought.

 

[chrisbru]

Or you know, instead of devoting more resources to this project, they could just put a *GASP* normal-sized battery in their laptops (and make them slightly thicker) and use those resources to update the Mac Pro, Mini, etc...

This is such a tired argument. They have different teams working on laptops vs. desktops. And there is obviously a sizeable population that wants small, light laptops with long battery life.

 

[Tycho24]

Did I say "Apple must buy Intel"? No, I did not. I just asked a simple question.

And I don't see how my post should reflect my technical know-how in any ways.

But you seem to be 100% sure that Apple is capable to bring up its own processors up to a pro level without any issues? So much to your fundamental understanding of tech...

Lol, how did you extrapolate that from my post????
I said nothing of the sort!
But, since your asking.... I think Apple will stick w/ Intel for at least the next decade, I think they will NOT buy it (roflmao), & I think they will continue to design custom "companion" chips themselves.
If I had to guess the next one... maybe their own baseband chips to decrease reliance on Qualcomm? They actually have a great relationship with Intel and a terrible one with Qualcomm, so that makes sense to me.

Also, my fundamental knowledge of tech helps me realize that while the A series processors are well on their way to being "pro level", speed wise; it is the fact that the entire macOS operating system & all macOS software is written to be executed on Intel architecture that is the sticking point in a possible transition.
Also... hiccups w/ regards to how BootCamp would work. It seems that Windows 10 is being coded so that it will run on ARM, but I doubt even 1/3 of BootCamp installs are Windows 10.

 

[Eriamjh1138@DAN]

If Apple releases an ARM machine, it won't be called a MacBook. It will be something like "MacPad" or some new name bridging the Mac and iPad family. It won't be in iMac form. iMacs and Mac Pros will have Intel chips in them for the foreseeable future. ARM is for portables.

iPads already cost nearly as much as low end Mac portables. It won't be cheap, but it will need something like amazing battery life to sell.

Edit: Holy crap! I just looked at the bottom of the page. Notice we've been talking about ARM macs since 2014!

 

[code-m]

If Apple releases an ARM machine, it won't be called a MacBook. It will be something like "MacPad" or some new name bridging the Mac and iPad family. It won't be in iMac form. iMacs and Mac Pros will have Intel chips in them for the foreseeable future. ARM is for portables.

iPads already cost nearly as much as low end Mac portables. It won't be cheap, but it will need something like amazing battery life to sell.

Edit: Holy crap! I just looked at the bottom of the page. Notice we've been talking about ARM macs since 2014!

I keep hearing that people want better battery life in a Mac portable, fair enough I agree its a valid point. However what if, just what if Apple wants to make a flexible Mac portable that can be folded. We do not know, however it would stir-up the notebook market for sure. Imagine a 15" or larger screen laptop that can be folded into 8-10" when closed/folded on the move. Imagine when in folded mode you can receive alerts on an auxiliary display that is run by the ARM processor.

I am excited for what form factors and functions may be available, if the TouchBar is any indication I would not be unimaginable that a physical NotificationBar is on a future Mac portable. The notebook form factor is unchanged for over 20 years, you have a screen, a keyboard, a palm rest, a cursor movement option (TrackPad), ports on the side and a battery with the computing internals. I would love to see a 12" screen laptop that goes from a 4:3 ratio and can be expanded to a 16:9 or even 16:10 ratio when watching videos or editing video and music, a foldable display in the form factor of a 12" laptop. Or a NotificationBar that informs me of WiFi/LTE strength, battery life, time, iMessage notifications, flash news, etc powered by the ARM processsor. Just thinking outside the box here

 

[69650]

Because some people prefer macOS, but also sometimes have to use software which is Windows-only.

Thankfully with the rise of cloud based software, the number of Windows-only applications is falling.