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So you want the power and expandability of a Mac Pro, but you don’t want to pay for a Mac Pro. And if Apple was to introducer this hypothetical new computer, why would anyone buy a Mac Pro, given that it would be neither more powerful nor more expandable?

You sure seem to like to argue.

I was asking for a machine that was like the old Mac Pro I bought (how many years ago). They can come up with a mac that has more ports than the iMac, and not have the massive ask of the Mac Pro. The whole Mac Pro reeks *MONEY*. You have a HUGE entry 'fee' to get there, and people that can't jump that bar, but need something more than the iMac *need* some more horsepower. THAT is what I was referring to. Would a high end iMac Pro give the kind of power a huge power user is looking for? No. But they can likely afford the full Mac Pro. *shrug* Who knows what the future holds. I'd love a 'trash can' for the power. I'd love a 'sugar momma' to buy me a new Mac Pro, but...

Cheers...

Lamborghini's are for sale. They actually sell rather well too, for the people that can afford them, and think they need the speed. I like fast cars, but I draw the line at something more than costs more than 3 years of my salary. Hmm...
 
How would you price both items? I’m guessing the computer will be around 2.000$, maybe even less (base config, assuming it will be a mbp sans the screen). Three grand for the monitor is a little bit too much for my liking. Still, this is apple.
I would price the monitor $1,500 and the Mac Studio $3,500.
 
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How would you price both items? I’m guessing the computer will be around 2.000$, maybe even less (base config, assuming it will be a mbp sans the screen). Three grand for the monitor is a little bit too much for my liking. Still, this is apple.
I would price the monitor $1,500 and the Mac Studio $3,500.

If the Mac Studio is intended (as rumored) to replace the high-end 2018 Intel Mac mini, which is $1099 for the base model right now, then it needs to be priced (minimum RAM difference) accordingly...

Base M1 Pro model:
M1 Pro SoC
8-core CPU (6P/2E)
14-core GPU
16-core Neural Engine
16GB LPDDR5 RAM
200GB/s UMA
512GB SSD
Gigabit Ethernet (RJ45) port
(4) TB4/USB-4 (USB-C) ports
(2) USB 3.1 Gen2 (USB-A) ports
HDMI 2.0 port
3.5mm headphone jack
Space Gray
CubeGrater chassis
$1499
 
The vast majority of Apple’s customers aren’t interested in a desktop of ANY kind, though… 80%+ of Mac buyers are buying mobile systems. And, of those that want desktop systems, the vast majority actually prefer the iMac line. There’s probably a single digit percentage of anything that’s not mobile and not an iMac being sold.
That's mostly because Apple hasn't offered any good modular desktop since 2012. Going very small in 2013, then enormous and extremely pricey in 2019. Users looking for a decent successor to the 2012 MP have turned to Hackintosh or a Mac that doesn't really suit their needs. But the Hack route is not possible with M1.
 
If the Mac Studio is intended (as rumored) to replace the high-end 2018 Intel Mac mini, which is $1099 for the base model right now, then it needs to be priced (minimum RAM difference) accordingly...

Base M1 Pro model:
M1 Pro SoC
8-core CPU (6P/2E)
14-core GPU
16-core Neural Engine
16GB LPDDR5 RAM
200GB/s UMA
512GB SSD
Gigabit Ethernet (RJ45) port
(4) TB4/USB-4 (USB-C) ports
(2) USB 3.1 Gen2 (USB-A) ports
HDMI 2.0 port
3.5mm headphone jack
Space Gray
CubeGrater chassis
$1499
We’ll see on Tuesday but from what I’ve seen the Studio is between Mac mini and Mac Pro. It does not replace the high-end mini.
 
We’ll see on Tuesday but from what I’ve seen the Studio is between Mac mini and Mac Pro. It does not replace the high-end mini.

My view of Mac Studio is that it starts at high-end Mac mini replacement levels and scales up to dual M1 Mac SoCs, bridging the gap between low-end Mn Mac mini & high-end Mac Pro...
 
We’ll see on Tuesday but from what I’ve seen the Studio is between Mac mini and Mac Pro. It does not replace the high-end mini.
This is what I'm gathering. My guess is there will be no real replacement for the "high end" Intel Mac Mini. Starting Tuesday, new Mac Minis will be available with the M1 and eventually M2 and nothing else, keeping it a very basic and relatively affordable entry-level desktop. If you need something more powerful then you have to step up to the Mac Studio that starts with the M1/2 Pro all the way up to dual M1/2 Max. After that it's the Mac Pro.
 
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This is what I'm gathering. My guess is there will be no real replacement for the "high end" Intel Mac Mini. Starting Tuesday, new Mac Minis will be available with the M1 and eventually M2 and nothing else, keeping it a very basic and relatively affordable entry-level desktop. If you need something more powerful then you have to step up to the Mac Studio that starts with the M1/2 Pro all the way up to dual M1/2 Max. After that it's the Mac Pro.

Seems like that starting point would be in the same performance space as a theoretical high-end M1 Pro/Max-powered ASi Mac mini, which would make the single SoC Mac Studio models the replacement for the high-end 2018 Intel Mac mini...?
 
Seems like that starting point would be in the same performance space as a theoretical high-end M1 Pro/Max-powered ASi Mac mini, which would make the single SoC Mac Studio models the replacement for the high-end 2018 Intel Mac mini...?
In theory, yes, but in reality(IF I'm right) if one needed at minimum a M1 Pro chip they'd need to pony up for a low-end Mac Studio instead of a high-end Mac Mini, which I'm guessing would be separated by $500+ in price.
 
In theory, yes, but in reality(IF I'm right) if one needed at minimum a M1 Pro chip they'd need to pony up for a low-end Mac Studio instead of a high-end Mac Mini, which I'm guessing would be separated by $500+ in price.

I figure the base Mac Studio (M1 Pro, 8/14, 16/512, Gigabit Ethernet) could start at $1399...?

Component price wise the major difference between a high-end ASi M1 Pro Mac mini and a base model ASi M1 Pro Mac Studio is the chassis itself...?

Using the same chassis (CubeGrater) in a product that would have a spread of $6k from base model to top-end fully-loaded model should help in the economics of scale...?

And what if the mobo / heat sink was on a slide-out tray, and Apple had a trade-in program...?!?
 
Hopefully there will be more than just a peek this week. If this isn't on the market before november then I'm going to cry.
 
I figure the base Mac Studio (M1 Pro, 8/14, 16/512, Gigabit Ethernet) could start at $1399...?
Sounds reasonable for a M1 Pro Mini if they're going to make a M1 Pro Mini - my reasoning would be that most of the M1 machines so far have landed within $100 or so of the Intel model that they replaced - even when they offered a lot more power. Even the 14" MBP starts at the same price as the old 13" plus the i7 option. The M1 Mini actually got a $100 cut...

I'd also go with the idea that Apple has a lot of flexibility in the "entry level" prices for each range, but the upgrades tend to be consistent across the range.

So currently: $1099 (i5 Mini base price) isn't impossible, but more realistically:

Intel Mini i5 upgraded to 16GB => $1099 + $200 = $1299 (i5 => binned M1 Pro with 16-core GPU?)
Intel Mini i7 upgraded to 16GB => $1099 + $200 + $200 = $1499 (i7 => full M1 Pro?)

...much more than $1500 would be hard to justify for a M1 Pro, since it is effectively a $1999 MBP 14 sans screen, keyboard, battery, touchpad and $200 1TB SSD upgrade...

Next there's the M1 Max - in the MBP that's a $800 extra ($400+compulsory $400 upgrade to 32GB):

M1 Max Mini => $2100 to $2300 ($2500 with 1TB SSD)

Now, the 9to5 rumour suggested that the "Mac Studio" would come with M1 Max, and made no mention of M1 Pro - so in that case we're looking at ~$2500 as a starting price for Mac Studio. Add a bit extra if it comes in a nice, silent enclosure. Add a $1000+ screen and it's not undercutting the MacBook Pro.

The question is, can a M1 Pro Mini at ~$1500 co-exist with a Mac Studio at $2500, or is it going to be one or the other? Also, does a M1 Max Mac Studio actually justify anything bigger than a Mini enclosure? It's still just a MacBook Pro without the screen, presumably won't support any more ports than would fit in a Mini, and the processor should run fine in a Mini enclosure that previously supported a desktop i7?
 
The device is "in addition" to the rumored Mac mini and Mac Pro
iu.png
 
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Apple uses them (that isn't solely enough to create the product, but does show they have utility). If you look at the M1 series introduction videos in the "secret apple lab" where they have workbenches you can see about 40 rack mount models on the wall in the background.
Well, strictly speaking, you can see about 40 Mac Pro front panels. In a room that - even if it is a real, live lab - has been very carefully set-dressed for a promo video. Could be Mac Pros, could be custom disc arrays with Mac Pro front panels to look good, could be a black frame covered in MP front panels hung up in a meeting room that they've dressed up as a "secret lab". Who knows?

Anyway, it's hardly surprising for Apple to be using Mac Pros in a development lab - at a minimum they'll all need it for XCode, and otherwise the Mac Pro is a perfectly capable Xeon workstation - the issues are (a) price (and I'm pretty sure Apple won't be paying retail for their own kit!) and (b) choice (e.g. that's about 20 more Mac Pros than you'd want to rack together and maintain without proper rackmount features like lights-out management, redundant PSUs, hot-swappable drives, RAM not on the underside of the machine... and they've probably spent more money on the optical thunderbolt cables that they'd need to hook up all those XDR displays than they did on the Mac Pros).

There's no question that the Mac Pro "has utility" - the problem is that a big part of that utility depends upon your dependency on MacOS outweighing the cost of the hardware.

There was an excellent series of YouTube videos from Neil Parfitt (see below) which make a good (if, at times, reluctant) case for why the Mac Pro was what he needed (PCIe slots and all - he has a shedload of dedicated audio cards and a ton of RAM he can have a 100 piece virtual orchestra at his fingertips) - but look at this in context (which you'll pick up if you watch a few of his videos): here is a guy who switched from PC to Mac because Apple bought Logic and dropped the PC version. He has a convoluted setup which allows him to compose in Logic and have everything mirrored in Pro Tools because his clients don't accept Logic format and the "baseline" that he was upgrading from was a Rube Goldberg looking lash up containing two Mac Pro trashcans, several thunderbolt PCIe cages and a bunch other stuff.

I'm not going to second-guess his judgement about not being prepared to move away from Logic, but that's clearly the underlying reason he can justify the cost of his set-up. Which is the problem - Up to 2019, Apple haven't been competing to grow their share of the workstation market beyond existing customers "locked in" to MacOS - which is going to be an ever-shrinking pool.

But, as long as Macs were basically just fancy PC clones, there wasn't much Apple could do to distinguish themselves. ...the key question is whether switching to Apple Silicon would mess up workflows like this (which, while centred on Logic, depends on a ton of third-party specialist software and hardware). If so, Apple might as well not bother with an Apple Silicon equivalent of the Mac Pro.

 
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Well, strictly speaking, you can see about 40 Mac Pro front panels. In a room that - even if it is a real, live lab - has been very carefully set-dressed for a promo video. Could be Mac Pros, could be custom disc arrays with Mac Pro front panels to look good, could be a black frame covered in MP front panels hung up in a meeting room that they've dressed up as a "secret lab". Who knows?

Anyway, it's hardly surprising for Apple to be using Mac Pros in a development lab - at a minimum they'll all need it for XCode, and otherwise the Mac Pro is a perfectly capable Xeon workstation - the issues are (a) price (and I'm pretty sure Apple won't be paying retail for their own kit!) and (b) choice (e.g. that's about 20 more Mac Pros than you'd want to rack together and maintain without proper rackmount features like lights-out management, redundant PSUs, hot-swappable drives, RAM not on the underside of the machine... and they've probably spent more money on the optical thunderbolt cables that they'd need to hook up all those XDR displays than they did on the Mac Pros).

There's no question that the Mac Pro "has utility" - the problem is that a big part of that utility depends upon your dependency on MacOS outweighing the cost of the hardware.

There was an excellent series of YouTube videos from Neil Parfitt (see below) which make a good (if, at times, reluctant) case for why the Mac Pro was what he needed (PCIe slots and all - he has a shedload of dedicated audio cards and a ton of RAM he can have a 100 piece virtual orchestra at his fingertips) - but look at this in context (which you'll pick up if you watch a few of his videos): here is a guy who switched from PC to Mac because Apple bought Logic and dropped the PC version. He has a convoluted setup which allows him to compose in Logic and have everything mirrored in Pro Tools because his clients don't accept Logic format and the "baseline" that he was upgrading from was a Rube Goldberg looking lash up containing two Mac Pro trashcans, several thunderbolt PCIe cages and a bunch other stuff.

I'm not going to second-guess his judgement about not being prepared to move away from Logic, but that's clearly the underlying reason he can justify the cost of his set-up. Which is the problem - Up to 2019, Apple haven't been competing to grow their share of the workstation market beyond existing customers "locked in" to MacOS - which is going to be an ever-shrinking pool.

But, as long as Macs were basically just fancy PC clones, there wasn't much Apple could do to distinguish themselves. ...the key question is whether switching to Apple Silicon would mess up workflows like this (which, while centred on Logic, depends on a ton of third-party specialist software and hardware). If so, Apple might as well not bother with an Apple Silicon equivalent of the Mac Pro.


The rack mount Pro looks so awesome!
 
They're huge compared to the competition.
...and in the Neil Parfitt videos I linked to earlier, turns out it is too deep & heavy for the typical studio audio/video equipment rack (as opposed to a purpose-built server rack).

Thing is, it's better than no rack mount, better than trying to rackmount trashcans, but at the end of the day it's a desk/floor-standing tower tweaked to fit in a rack and is nothing like a proper rackmount server.
 
Agree. This is why Apple has never made a dent in enterprise. Just as they were starting to get some traction, they canned all their server products and towers that could be upgraded/self-repaired.
Apple HAS made a dent in enterprise. Their marketshare in the enterprise is twice as much as their marketshare in the consumer market.
And, they reached that by offering the kind of mobile systems that enterprises are deploying to their employees. There are a few employees in specific areas of companies that still need desktops (and they deal with the limitations of those, like not being able to work from home). But, the majority is and always will be better served by non-desktop devices.
 
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That's mostly because Apple hasn't offered any good modular desktop since 2012. Going very small in 2013, then enormous and extremely pricey in 2019. Users looking for a decent successor to the 2012 MP have turned to Hackintosh or a Mac that doesn't really suit their needs. But the Hack route is not possible with M1.
No, it’s mostly because most people don’t want to be tied to one desk in one room. They want to have their computing experience in the living room, in the kitchen, on the deck, wherever the mood or need strikes, even in the middle of a trip to visit customers/vendors/remote offices. That’s a strong use case that no desktop, regardless of how good and how modular, will ever be able to replicate.
 
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