7on said:
The programs are not interchangeable.
Amazon can not use a spreadsheet program to track its inventory, nor will they use a database program to make a financial model of their business.
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The programs are not interchangeable.
Amazon can not use a spreadsheet program to track its inventory, nor will they use a database program to make a financial model of their business.
BornAgainMac
macrumors 604
Well, Microsoft Office doesn't have a database program for the Mac. I would like to see a database program like Access for the Mac. It should work with any database and allow you to create your own apps. Also make Pages faster and better along with Numbers. Add a web site creation tool called Webs or something too.
roadapple said:
Most times I walk past desks at the office, people have Excel open to make calendars, phone lists, and lots of other things that could be done in Word if they set up columns. I think that is what people think Excel is for.
Some_Big_Spoon said:
I think describing it as a "PageMaker" replacement is over-reaching a bit. It's a lower-end equivalent to MS Publisher, with a very nice presentation program that's missing a few features one would expect in a competitor to PowerPoint. That's what the price point should tell folks, too: this is more about being an MS Works, AppleWorks/ClarisWorks replacement than an MS Office replacement.
And yes, I have it. I've used it a little bit, and it lacks the kind of control that PageMaker has. I think it's a weak 1.0 (Pages, that is; Keynote I like quite a bit, though I'm more comfortable with PowerPoint.)
They are both to MS Office as iMovie is to Final Cut Pro: reduced-capability, reduced-difficulty home-small-office user software. Nice things to add to the machine (I do think they should be giving it away with new Macs, myself), but not something I'd tell people to buy instead of MS Word unless their needs were very simple.
bryanc said:
Doubtful. Its not like Apple's Safari motivated Microsoft into making Internet Explorer on the Mac a better product.
Now, if Apple were to port Safari over to Windows, that would be a different story.
For the life of me, I don't understand why Apple hasn't put iTunes on a CD and placed them in stores like AOL. They'd pick up even more users that way. It would be a great way of increasing QuickTime marketshare too in the process, since its part of iTunes, more or less. Throw Safari for Windows on there as well, and Safari on Windows would have a larger share of the browser market than even Mozilla FireFox, within a month.
Microsoft would not be happy.
Correct. Sometimes needs are based on the user having increased demands or sophistication, but sometimes the needs are based on the technology advancing, such as having AppleWorks stay basically an OS 9 application under OS X.ioinc said:
In my case, what's missing besides OS X integration is to have the features that lead me to buy Excel instead of using the spreadsheet in AppleWorks, such as in-cell editing, myriad ways to set borders, formatting, etc. Nothing major. That's why, for me, a low-cost application suite like iWork or AppleWorks would suffice compared with the everything-and-the-kitchen-sink approach of MS Office.
wrldwzrd89
macrumors G5
Really? I would think that the "Show Fonts" panel would be FAR faster to load than a font selection menu, especially if the font names are drawn in their font (for an example, compare TextEdit to Word X).Quartz Extreme said:
Of course Apple's going to use the font selector panel - they built it in to Mac OS X as part of Cocoa's text services (that TextEdit uses extensively) for any text application to use essentially for free.
7on said:
They shouldn't have hockey and basketball - a hockey game should be the same thing as a basketball game.
That, in a nutshell, is what you sound like right now to a database programmer.
joemama said:
While I agree with you that a decent webpage program is seriously missing from iLife, I'd like to see two other programs included in the package. And both could be done cheaply through acquisitions.
1. Toast. Adding Toast to iLife would put the Mac line at a complete advantage above most Windows PCs since Windows does not include decent CD/DVD burning, without bundling Nero or Roxio's own Easy Media Creator. Acquiring the privately held Roxio would be relatively cheap, and Apple could tie it together with iTunes, iMovie, and iDVD on the Mac side of things for better abilities than what any of the programs offer separately today, and on the Windows side of the game, through tying iTunes to Easy Media Creator.
2. Delicious Monster. Nice little program, but not well known outside of the Mac loyal or former TechTV viewing audience. This little program could greatly sell Macs, not to mention the Apple cam.
Add these programs to iLife, and Apple will definitely increase the number of Mac Minis, iMacs, eMacs, and iBooks sold to consumers following the Intel transition.
BWhaler
macrumors 68040
Getting sales of iWork to take off is pretty straight forward:
1. Put in a serious spreadsheet.
2. Pages is a disgrace. Make it a combination of an "express" version of indesign with the best of MSWord, and you've got a killer word processor.
3. Keynote. Get the bugs out. Put in the missing serious presenter tools, and this app is perfect.
4. Office compatibility. It simply doesn't work in this version. Get it done for v2.
If this if iWork 06, Apple will be blown away by the sales. People want to be more creative with their Office docs, and MS products make it hard to be creative.
There is a market here. Apple just hasn't hit the sweet spot yet. But Keynote clearly proved there is a market here.
1. Put in a serious spreadsheet.
2. Pages is a disgrace. Make it a combination of an "express" version of indesign with the best of MSWord, and you've got a killer word processor.
3. Keynote. Get the bugs out. Put in the missing serious presenter tools, and this app is perfect.
4. Office compatibility. It simply doesn't work in this version. Get it done for v2.
If this if iWork 06, Apple will be blown away by the sales. People want to be more creative with their Office docs, and MS products make it hard to be creative.
There is a market here. Apple just hasn't hit the sweet spot yet. But Keynote clearly proved there is a market here.
Have you tried Pages seriously?
I mean, gave it more than a quick glance? I di. If you really explore it for a while it is not so bad at all. Sure, it has less features than Word, but still, it is a capable wordprocessor. I'm looking forward to Pages 2.0.
The only thing stopping me from dropping Office alltogether is the lack of a capable spreadsheet app.
I mean, gave it more than a quick glance? I di. If you really explore it for a while it is not so bad at all. Sure, it has less features than Word, but still, it is a capable wordprocessor. I'm looking forward to Pages 2.0.
The only thing stopping me from dropping Office alltogether is the lack of a capable spreadsheet app.
biohazard6969
macrumors 6502a
JDOG_
macrumors 6502a
My thoughts...
True. I doubt a lot of people would disagree with you there (I'm too lazy to read all the replies) but I think the general concensus was that Keynote 2 fixed a lot of things that should have been fixed by Apple in the first place and Pages was a buggy and underpowered program. Altogether making iWork a little disappointing (at least for me...)
Sorry man, but Delicious Monster is practically useless unless you have an iSight to scan your products or a lot of patience to type in the IDs. I think Apple reducing the price of iSight to $99 would make it a much more well-received app.
edesignuk said:
True. I doubt a lot of people would disagree with you there (I'm too lazy to read all the replies) but I think the general concensus was that Keynote 2 fixed a lot of things that should have been fixed by Apple in the first place and Pages was a buggy and underpowered program. Altogether making iWork a little disappointing (at least for me...)
Lynxpro said:
Sorry man, but Delicious Monster is practically useless unless you have an iSight to scan your products or a lot of patience to type in the IDs. I think Apple reducing the price of iSight to $99 would make it a much more well-received app.
biohazard6969
macrumors 6502a
iHack said:
yea, i think that it is a great thing, i love the templates, and the tables are far better than that of MS word but the iWork suite could rele use more than just a word processor and presentation thingy. maybe a mockup of photoshop, but with an apple signature
🙄
7on said:
I take it you have never programmed something for a database. A spreadsheet program uses a flat model and a database uses a relational model. The difference is night and day. Take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database .
I'm still yet to use pages and keynote, is there a time-limited demo or something of them from apple?
I think that if numbers was a stripped down version of excel which made it easier for a home user to make use of the real power of excel, that would be great. I use excel occasionally and would like to be able to use some of the more advanced features but its a micro$oft app and i dont use it enough to warrant learning the advanced features.
I think that if numbers was a stripped down version of excel which made it easier for a home user to make use of the real power of excel, that would be great. I use excel occasionally and would like to be able to use some of the more advanced features but its a micro$oft app and i dont use it enough to warrant learning the advanced features.
notkevin said:
Kinda like referencing another sheet really though.
Apart from the presentation aspect (Spreadsheet being tabular only, database being row-ular (or card if you are using one of the applications that lets you design your own interface to the database).
So take Improv with its named columns and/or rows, add relational references between sheets and have an interface that can either be tabular 'spreadsheet' (basic database table view or search query) or customised simply, and so on.
It wouldn't be as powerful as a dedicated database application, but it would be an easy to use spreadsheet with some powerful sorting, searching and data presentation features alongside the calculation and graphing.
Why export your sales from the database into a spreadsheet if the database is the spreadsheet?
Cooknn
macrumors 68020
I once wrote a hell of a script in Excel that imported a flat file from an IBM System36, captured my inventory levels and projected necessary orders to meet customer demand. Once minimum quantity on hand was reached a suggested order was generated based on sales history and estimated production time. I admit, it would have been easier in Access, but at the time I was into Excel 😀ioinc said:
Yay a spreadsheet
I've used iWork but its a bit limiting without a spreadsheet.
There are loads of things Apple could do to improve on Excel. Excel hasn't had any competition for years and it shows. its bloated and sometimes very difficult to use when you start to get complicated.
Excel is 80% of the program it could be, but Apple can deliver the next 20% and make a spreadsheet that works and is easy to work with.......
I've used iWork but its a bit limiting without a spreadsheet.
There are loads of things Apple could do to improve on Excel. Excel hasn't had any competition for years and it shows. its bloated and sometimes very difficult to use when you start to get complicated.
Excel is 80% of the program it could be, but Apple can deliver the next 20% and make a spreadsheet that works and is easy to work with.......
Hattig said:
It's not. A spreadsheet is a reporting tool. That's all it is, that's all it should be. That's why you export from a database to a spreadsheet - it's good at reporting data. It's not good at organizing it.
A database is for organizing, accessing, and storing data. A spreadsheet will never be good at doing that because there is no logic in the organization, data can refer to anything and a simple error can throw off everything and not even be noticed. There's no real security model nor a good paradigm for creating a security model. It bugs me to no end when stupid corporate managers try to use Excel as a database.
hayesk said:
Its actually a bit more than just a reporting tool 😀
Not a database.... but more than a word processor for numbers.
Apple should collab with OMNI. If anyone were to make an excel killer it would be OMNI. Then APPLE/OMNI can bundle iWork and OmniGraffle+OmniSpreadsheetwhatever to make a complete Office Suite.