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Don’t think it’s a massive PR headache as much as a bad bug. Some will take this to the nth degree while others will say, “just fix it Apple. There is a middle ground with all shades of grey in between.

Can you really say this with a straight face when every tech blog and non tech blog is mentioning this along with the reiteration of Apple's stance on privacy?
 
What bugs of this severity are happening with frequency?

- Not being able to type "I"
- Degrading battery power on older phones to "avoid restarts"
- Allowing root level access to Macs in an OS update.
- The complete dumpster fire that is the Touch Bar MacBook Pro (overheating, keyboard, flexgate etc)
- Pre-bent iPads
- Enabling people to hear and see people who said "no"

That's less than a years' worth of bugs, flaws and "gates". Separately, any one of these is a relatively small deal. Taken together, it's a complete failure of quality assurance. Need I go on?
 
- Not being able to type "I"
- Degrading battery power on older phones to "avoid restarts"
- Allowing root level access to Macs in an OS update.
- The complete dumpster fire that is the Touch Bar MacBook Pro (overheating, keyboard, flexgate etc)
- Pre-bent iPads
- Enabling people to hear and see people who said "no"

That's less than a years' worth of bugs, flaws and "gates". Separately, any one of these is a relatively small deal. Taken together, it's a complete failure of quality assurance. Need I go on?
So basically not much of this type at some sort of high frequency.
 
And we are quickly off to misrepresentations and characterizations. Says quite a bit about the actual on topic content of what was said.

Yep, "This is fine", indeed. Keep turning a blind eye and chastising us non-believers even as Apple's weekly QA f---ups keep piling higher and higher.
 
“One-on-one FaceTime calls continue to work normally.”

Can you then change all the prior headlines to clearly state it’s for iOS 12 versions?
Actually this only affects iOS 12.1, which was released on October 30th. So I would think anyone who upgraded to 12.1 will upgrade once the fix is out and this will be like it never occurred. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said on Android, these types of issues persist for ever on some Anrooid versions, in fact there are open flaw s right now on nearly 30-40% of Android phones.
 
Yep, "This is fine", indeed. Keep turning a blind eye and chastising us non-believers even as Apple's weekly QA f---ups keep piling higher and higher.
So basically just doubling down on the misrepresentations and mischaracterizations.
 
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But they CAN FT you without your knowledge with this bug. All it takes is a couple sec of you missing an incoming call and then it could be listening without your consent.
So I'd have to miss the incoming call... which there's no reason to suppose I would... and even if I did, I'd still see the "missed call" badge. So I'm still not seeing the "without my knowledge" part.
 
So I'd have to miss the incoming call... which there's no reason to suppose I would... and even if I did, I'd still see the "missed call" badge. So I'm still not seeing the "without my knowledge" part.
You take a shower. Someone initiated this while you are in shower. They can then hear everything until you decide to check your phone again.
 
So I'd have to miss the incoming call... which there's no reason to suppose I would... and even if I did, I'd still see the "missed call" badge. So I'm still not seeing the "without my knowledge" part.

Seeing a missed FT call wouldn’t let you know if someone listened in on you or not.
 
Absolutely. I’m writing this with a “straight face” as you put it.

So basically just doubling down on the misrepresentations and mischaracterizations.

I can't believe you guys aren't joining in on the Apple hate! How dare you not hate Apple! What OUTRAGE! You must be OUTRAGED with everyone else! I'm outraged that you're not outraged!

You take a shower. Someone initiated this while you are in shower. They can then hear everything until you decide to check your phone again.

Before they turned it off yesterday, yes. I do sing in the shower too, so that would have been embarrassing.
 
Yeah... I'll pass, thanks. Nobody who FaceTimes me is going to try to spy on me, and if they did, I'd see it because it's not like someone can FT you without you knowing about it.

That said, it's still a good move to take down Group FT until a fix can be issued because the negative publicity from this is already out of control, and Apple is wise to cut it off now.

It’s not people you know but rather people you don’t. For instance, my wife had a ton of unknown numbers FaceTime her in the last week, before this went mainstream. Coincidence? I think not. It’s honestly scary to think that people were likely listening in on us, and random people at that.
 
FaceTime group feature and NSA surveillance recording are two distinct features. Did they disable the latter too? Better yet, unbundle it from iOS and make it optional.
 
Lady-bug-Breda.png


That's what i call "a bug"
 
A whole list of managers above that overworked engineer all the way up to Craig Federighi decided that releasing the feature without enough testing, cutting corners along the way was the way to go. In a fair world, that's where you should be looking for fireable material.

Without enough testing? Cutting corners? Ridiculous assertions. Its virtually impossible to test all possible scenarios. You COULD do increasingly thorough testing, but its not a linear scale. Its not like 1 week we find 25% of the bugs, 2 weeks we find 50%, 3 weeks we find 75%, 4 weeks we find 100%. More like 1 week we find 60%, 2 weeks 90%, 3 weeks 92%, 4 weeks 93%, 5 weeks. 93.5%..etc. There is always a tradeoff in engineering, software or hardware. You can test longer, but its going to get increasingly expensive and less likely to find a bug. At some point you have to ship your product or you'll go out of business. Unless the situation in question is HIGHLY critical (think banking) and/or you can spend a HUGE amount of money on it (think the moon landing), you aren't going to do extremely exhaustive testing, its just not practical. I mean, Apple COULD double the price of all their products and spend all that extra revenue on increasing testing time and staff, but the amount of bugs they find are going to be negligible and customers aren't going to buy their products anymore. Competitors will release buggier products for much cheaper and people will use them. Hell that ALREADY happens with both Windows and Android. People, in general balance "how good is it" with "how much is it". For a lot of people "how much" is weighted heavier than "how good". If the how much difference is big enough they will tolerate inferior products.

This was an edge case bug. How likely is it you think people are going to be adding THEMSELVES to an existing chat WHILE waiting for another person to join, but who hasn't joined yet. Its not a common set of circumstances, and its only because the combination of steps resulted in a rather serious privacy breach that anyone even noticed. Had the bug instead been something less significant for the same set of steps, like say your video being flipped upside down in the chat, or not being able to add the other person, or something, it would barely have been noticed. Without knowing the full extent of what Apple's FaceTime testing efforts look like its really not reasonable to say whether they cut corners or not.
 
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