Apple Disabling RealNetworks Harmony Technology

[psycho bob]

How many people have gone and used the Real store and perhaps more to the point how many people have bought an iPod just because they can use it. I don't think anyone really cares (pardon the pun) I'd rather pay more for a better service from a company I like and want to support then give money to a group of people who have never done anything to benefit me and only motives seem to be self driven.
It does annoy me how they disguise their obvious greed behind a veil of wanting to offer the consumer choice and support.

 

[nagromme]

BTW, although the clamor of Real users is strangely silent I'll mention your solution anyway: burn to CD, rip back into iTunes. ANY store's music is playable by iTunes--legally and without hacks--by that method. It takes a little time, but gives you a DRM-free CD backup that will play in any stereo or car, so that's no bad thing. If quality worries you, use Apple Lossless. If capacity is your thing, then it doesn't matter. You can even rip your CD into different formats to see what you prefer. Choice!

DRM and exclusivity ARE bad for consumers. But they're a market reality, thanks to the pirates and the RIAA.

 

[ASP272]

Awesome! Apple needs to keep control of their format. I just wonder if some whining baby is going to come up someday and say, "They're just like Microsoft, monopolizing the market with their proprietary software and not sharing." Boo hoo. Quit producing crappy software and offer something that competes with Apple. If you can't, quit the music store/MP3 player business you losers! I've always disliked the quality of Real anyway. Go Apple!

 

[MarcelV]

Competition drives innovtion...

And how will this make Apple better? If it was competition, you're right. So, if Real came up with an integrated solution like iPod/iTunes it will make Apple build a better iPod. But allowing Real to play songs on this iPod, will not make Apple better....

Just my .02

 

[AmigoMac]

I don't see this good or bad at all, it wasn't a surprise...was it?

 

[Jovian9]

I'll mention your solution anyway: burn to CD, rip back into iTunes. ANY store's music is playable by iTunes--legally and without hacks--by that method. It takes a little time, but gives you a DRM-free CD backup that will play in any stereo or car, so that's no bad thing.

Exactly.






I cannot wait until REAL is no more. Please go away!

 

[NavyIntel007]

Allowing Real to actively compete in the media market for the iPod would start a price war that neither company can afford. The larget vocal complaints that apple is monopolizing the digital media market is just proof that they've won the war. Lawsuits will be on the way. Even if they lose, they'll be allowed to license the fairplay DRM to other MP3 player makers, thus making money off of every device sold.

genius.

 

[AidenShaw]

are you hinting of a monopoly ??

For a smaller company, I'd probably side with Apple... but the way Apple has become such a market leader, I'm feeling a little unsure as to who I'd stand with, if I was asked to.

Hmmm..... Huge market share, playing tricks to block other companies, keeping formats proprietary, ....

Remember that Microsoft did very little that would have been illegal for a smaller company to do. It was only when they became successful and got a huge market share that "aggessive competition" became "illegal monopoly tactics".

 

[JGowan]

I think this serves REAL right! From my recollection, they contacted Apple via an email (!) and basically said "Let us license or else!" There was no wooing Apple. There was no corporate sit-downs. There simply was a bullying email!

The flipside is Apple is not impossible to negotiate with. I think their latest deals with Pepsi, U2 and Hewlett-Packard speaks volumes about how companies much bigger than REAL can work along side with Apple and all benefit. There simply is no real up-side for Apple to license (except the initial fee).

Also, as far as what benefits the user, Apple has the best online experience, bar none. Also, their lineup of music players is second to none and getting better everyday (especially considering the rumor of a flash-based 'pod coming out early next year). Apple has created this. They found the talent from the SoundJam authors and have moved forward in a huge way. They deserve all that comes to them. And Real does not deserve to just bully in and try to push Apple around without some real discouragement.

 

[bullrat]

Yes, shame on Real for having offered iPod users more choices. Boy, what an evil think to do! And what is this I hear! Real had the nerve NOT to fall down at Apple's feet and beg. Of all the nerve!! I am aghast. Aghast, I say. To arms! To arms! There must be no other company on the face of the earth but Apple. Competition to Apple is evil.... Eeeeeeeeeevvvvvvvvvviiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllll!!!!!!!!!

sheesh, some of you folks should get your wish -- if nothing else -- just so you could see how screwed up the world would be under your "vision."

 

[Doctor Q]

I think this serves REAL right! From my recollection, they contacted Apple via an email (!) and basically said "Let us license or else!" There was no wooing Apple. There was no corporate sit-downs. There simply was a bullying email!

The flipside is Apple is not impossible to negotiate with. I think their latest deals with Pepsi, U2 and Hewlett-Packard speaks volumes about how companies much bigger than REAL can work along side with Apple and all benefit. There simply is no real up-side for Apple to license (except the initial fee).

A distant memory: Apple and RealNetworks Announce Internet Streaming Collaboration

 

[capvideo]

There was a previous discussion about whether Apple could make this change, given the way Apple combines standards with a proprietary implementation. Since Apple wouldn't license Fairplay to Real, Real used reverse engineering to mimic it. So an interesting question is how, technically, the iPod software determines that a given tune is from Real?

My guess is that if the iPod is doing anything to determine that a tune is from Real, Apple is in trouble. They can't do that; it's the sort of thing that gets anti-trust eyeballs; if, on the other hand, this was just a natural result of Apple adding new features or cleaning up their code or something like that, then Real just has to suck it up and re-reverse engineer it. Real can't expect Apple to stop improving their software on the chance that it will break Real's reverse engineering.

Jerry

 

[Gear_media]

As has been mentioned on /. regarding this story, Apple may not have even done this intentionally. Real may have exploited a bug in the firmware that Apple did not realize even had anything to do with Reals hack. ... like Jerry just said

Apple is under no obligation to support the technologies of any third party.

 

[plinkoman]

i really hope that now that this has happened, someone who used real with their iPod and now finds their purchased music un-playable; will sue real for false advertising saying that it was iPod compatable when it isn't. that would be awesome.

and to anyone who thinks this was microsoft-like monopolism, thats just plain wrong. if they were like microsoft, they would buy out creative and dell and all the other companies that make competing players, and they would buy out napster and buymusic and all the other music stores. that is being monopolistic. saying that if you want to use our product, you have to use our software with it is no problem when you still have the choice to use someone elses product and software.

 

[pgwalsh]

Time to come to a common DRM standard, an open standard controlled by a committee and not a single company so we can download from whatever online music store we want and play our music on favourite digital player.

Let market forces decide on the best music store / mp3 player instead of companies protecting themselves. An open market.

Its going to happen eventually.. but not soon enough.

I agree. That said, Apple should also open up iTunes to other stores. Maybe the should even charge other companies a nominal fee per download, say 1 cent.

However, I don't see Apple doing this until all is said and done in the music download market. Too many small players right now, so Apple doesn't really need to open up.

 

[jxyama]

I agree. That said, Apple should also open up iTunes to other stores. Maybe the should even charge other companies a nominal fee per download, say 1 cent.

However, I don't see Apple doing this until all is said and done in the music download market. Too many small players right now, so Apple doesn't really need to open up.

i don't think apple ever will open up Fairplay to others. apple is notoriously picky about the complete control it exerts over its products. cloned OS went nowhere and for apple, they're gonna go solo as far as they can, trusting their superior product and tight integration/control over it...

 

[hulugu]

Yes, shame on Real for having offered iPod users more choices. Boy, what an evil think to do! And what is this I hear! Real had the nerve NOT to fall down at Apple's feet and beg. Of all the nerve!! I am aghast. Aghast, I say. To arms! To arms! There must be no other company on the face of the earth but Apple. Competition to Apple is evil.... Eeeeeeeeeevvvvvvvvvviiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllll!!!!!!!!!

sheesh, some of you folks should get your wish -- if nothing else -- just so you could see how screwed up the world would be under your "vision."

What you mean a well-designed intiuitive music player that works with a well-designed music store? Yeah this sucks.
As for Real, they didn't negotiate they demanded, bullied, threatened, and then cried when Apple didn't bend. Someone else pointed out that U2, HP, and others have been able to negotiate with Apple with nary a hassle and that has to do with negotiation style of which Real has none.
Furthermore, the choice between WMA DRM and Apple's Fairplay is not a choice between freedom and despotism; WMA DRM is owned by Microsoft!
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I want a cross-platform standard controlled by a consortium of companies that contains a minimal DRM-scheme (if we must) that works like Mp3. Not WMA's 'works for sure' but a fair, reliable DRM scheme with the best of every system, or Fairplay but with a bigger catalogue.
But, Real, MS and even Apple don't want that to happen which is unfortunate.
Lastly, I want real competition not Real's whinning and coat-tail riding.

 

[bredlo]

There's a LOT of content out there on the internet in Real format. I hope Real doesn't cut off it's own nose to spite Apple by discontinuing it's OS X support for their player.

As a web user, I'd hate to be the nameless, facelsss guy who gets stuck in the middle of these guys' pissing contest. It wouldn't surprise me if that's what happens, though.

 

[DPazdanISU]

stupid Real when are you going to learn that we have the best in the world and trying to get a piece of the action is not going to happen btw when is cherry os comin out im getting people to switch over starting with that

 

[joeboy_45101]

It's up to Apple to say how, when, and even IF other companies get to share in their success with iPod and/or iTunes. And when the time is right for that (I think it will happen one day--NOT now), then Apple will do it themselves. They'll do it with OFFICIAL support and they'll get paid.

Real's right in general that "choice is good for consumers," but by using Apple's iPod BEFORE Apple is ready, and not paying Apple, they are NOT providing a good long term product. Real is helping themselves, not customers.

It will be amusing to see the statements that come from Real, though They love to go on about choice and "freedom," while their own products offer no such thing

It amazes me that so many people on here can act as if somehow all iPods are the property of Apple Computer. My iPod is MINE, not Apple's. I as a owner can do whatever I damn well please with my property, and I shouldn't have to worry about upsetting Big Brother Apple while I do it. I could crush it with a hammer, embed it with diamonds, give it to a friend. So, it's really none of Apple's business what consumers do with their iPods after the purchase. My question is what will Apple do about the many P2P networks since they are a huge source of alternate music tracks. Is there anybody out there that has never even once put a (stolen, shared, pirated, whatever you want to call it) mp3 on there iPod?

 

[destroyboredom]

While this is true keep in mind Netscape/Mozilla never went and reversed engineered Internet Explorer/Microsoft.

Hmmm..... Huge market share, playing tricks to block other companies, keeping formats proprietary, ....

Remember that Microsoft did very little that would have been illegal for a smaller company to do. It was only when they became successful and got a huge market share that "aggessive competition" became "illegal monopoly tactics".

 

[ClimbingTheLog]

No Patents?

I can't belive Apple doesn't have a patent on FairPlay. Real would be violating these patents.

I'm no fan of overly broad software patents, and Apple shouldn't have a patent on Digital Music DRM, per se, but Fairplay is a specific method and is likely patented. Real should feel free to engage in whatever DRM is chooses to invent, but they can't force a hardware manufacturer to adopt it, nor can the they simply appropriate Apple's patented methods without a license. If they'd like to compete with Apple why don't they bring out their own, superior, player?

Apple's being nice by just breaking their software - they could be dragging them through court. Real used to be a great technology company, when they pioneered streaming media. Then the dot-bomb suits came on board, they bet everything on the MLB partnership and ran the company into the ground. After Apple open-sourced Darwin Streaming Server they tried to jump on that bandwagon with their Helix stuff, but they didn't include their codecs.

With WMP dominating streaming audio today, Real is trying not to go out of business. Rather than do anything interesting, they've been me-too'ing for a few years, and their music store is just the latest example. If they want to mimic Apple they should realize they need to invent their way out of their prediciment.

 

[benpatient]

Jez.

You guys complain all day about Microsoft..in fact it's hard to click on a thread in this entire forum without seeing something that bad-mouths microsoft for acting exactly like Apple is starting to act.

Glad to see the devotion didn't come without some blindness, too.

This thread sounds, for the most part, like M$ fanboys, except the M$ has been replaced with Apple.

for shame

 

[benpatient]

i don't think apple ever will open up Fairplay to others. apple is notoriously picky about the complete control it exerts over its products. cloned OS went nowhere and for apple, they're gonna go solo as far as they can, trusting their superior product and tight integration/control over it...

sounds like 1930s Germany, to me!

 

[The Red Wolf]

...This thread sounds, for the most part, like M$ fanboys, except the M$ has been replaced with Apple...

Please watch your blanket statements. The actions of some do not represent the actions of all. Many Apple users are vigorous about how they feel about the Mac. It is not blindness which creates devotion to a product. Apple is run by humans who make mistakes 1997 was a scary year for Apple Users. Devotion comes not from mistakes but from successes. I assure you my devotion to Apple is based on 20+ years of enjoyment of their successes as well as support during their trials. I don't like everything Apple does. The Photo iPod rather sickens me. I do wonder what happens when Apple leads a market in the shadow of a becoming a monopoly. Much of the DRM is based on how not to get sued by the recording industry. Also, if a company makes a product and a rival company's soul business is a similar product it is competition.

There is nothing wrong with a company defending itself when an idea is infringed upon. It would be like making a car with a new type of wheel which makes tires obsolete. Then in the dark of night a tire company goes out and replaces the updated product with the legacy tires. In the morning as the revolutionary wheel company, wouldn't you ship your new cars with wheel locks to prevent swapping? Sure the locks cost the end users a bit more, but it's better than waking up without the wheels that came on your car and may or may not be compatible with your onboard tire pressure system.