Apple Discontinues 12-Inch MacBook

[ZeitGeist]

Speculating further on this ARM dream, I dug up the article I was originally referencing 5 years ago:

https://www.extremetech.com/computi...6-cores-working-side-by-side-on-the-same-chip

This is AMD working on this, and as we know Apple is very cozy with AMD lately, so it is conceivable for Apple to be working with AMD on this type of processor. Apple has arguably the very best chip development alert in-house thanks to their acquisition of PA semi many years ago, and judging by the quality of everything they have developed for Apple, they *could* pull such a Hybrid CPU off, including by having AMD’s resources available. Apple certainly has the foundry partners to turn it out in needed quantities - particularly if they start with a low-quantity item.

So, sure, it’s conceivable - and the technology and resources are available to Apple... but before the ARM cheering squad gets their hopes up too high, it remains unlikely.

 

[cmaier]

What’s with this persistent rumor of the switch to ARM processors?

This would only make sense of Apple could eventually roll this out across the entire Mac line - the renewed emphasis on Pro equipment, like the Xeon based Mac Pro or iMac Pro, make this unlikely. Ditto with the Mac Pro line based on the core i9.

It would make no sense to restrict this to just a line of light portables or ultra-portables.

Plus, with what seems to be Apple’s renewed interest and pivot towards simplifying their product line, and emphasizing actual desired functionality makes this even less likely.

Especially since those machines would lose x86 compatibility, which is needed in order to for the various virtual machines apps (like VMware or Parallels) to do their job (yes, those apps could emulate an x86, but performance would suffer - and there has been no sign of Apple adopting the ARM architecture with an x86 co-processor, which was exciting 5-6 years ago, but hasn’t had any updates since then).

Could such a switch happen eventually? Possibly, but not within the next 5 years, and not as long as intel delivers.

Your post is ridiculous. Apple could easily design CPUs for the entire lineup. The people working at apple designing A-series CPUs have previously designed CPUs for everything from laptops to RISC workstations.
[doublepost=1563134753][/doublepost]

Speculating further on this ARM dream, I dig up the article I was originally referencing 5 years ago:

https://www.extremetech.com/computi...6-cores-working-side-by-side-on-the-same-chip

This is AMD working on this, and as we know Apple is very cozy with AMD lately, so it is conceivable for Apple to be working with AMD on this type of processor. Apple has arguably the very best chip development alert in-house thanks to their acquisition of PA semi many years ago, and judging by the quality of everything they have developed for Apple, they *could* pull such a Hybrid CPU off, including by having AMD’s resources available. Apple certainly has the foundry partners to turn it out in needed quantities - particularly if they start with a low-quantity item.

So, sure, it’s conceivable - and the technology and resources are available to Apple... but before the ARM cheering squad gets their hopes up too high, it remains unlikely.

Apple doesn’t need AMD. I know. I worked there.

 

[KPOM]

No, it isn’t.


Moving on.

Oh no, it was quite clear that you seek refuge in presenting unrealistic scenarios as strawman arguments.

So, in order to accommodate 2 USB-C ports, a laptop would *need* to be the size of a 13” MacBook Pro? Really?

I rest my case.

That's not a very strong case. You are showing a picture of a laptop 92% of the size of the 13" MacBook Pro.
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No, they don’t. Adding a second port doesn’t turn the machine into a Macintosh Portable (if you remember what that is). Why do you apologists all have to use this completely irrational strawman argument?

The Air is actually quite decent value, and an elegant design, especially having a Retina display.

The Air is a bad value for me because it uses essentially the same processor as the 12" MacBook, but in a package 92% of the size of the 13" MacBook Pro, which is only $200 more and has a processor twice as fast, and a brighter display. If I'm not going to get the portability of the MacBook, I'd just go for the Pro.

 

[KPOM]

Once they finally added the retina screen to the Air, the 12” was doomed. Furthermore, the profit margin was higher in the Air, with an established and inexpensive production process (though moving the SSD to soldered on has now become a dealbreaker for me - ultimately, the lack of flexibility and expandability in the existing lineup is what pushed me to hackintosh). I can’t even buy a Mac mini anymore (for over $1,000 in a functional configuration), so instead I’m using a $500 intel NUC. Apple’s loss.

They had to design a new completely new Air. They didn't just take an established and inexpensive production process and slap a Retina display on it. My guess is that Apple in 2015 had no intention of developing a new Air. They probably thought the MacBook would take its place and that there ultimately would be just the MacBook and the MacBook Pro (the latter with the Touch Bar).

What likely happened was that when the 12" MacBook sales fell short of expectations, they decided to develop a new MacBook Air, but didn't have enough lead time to release one in 2016 or 2017. By then, the Thunderbolt-only MacBook Pro was already far along the design process. As you may recall, they tried positioning the 2016 nTB MacBook Pro as a MacBook Air replacement. That may have been a stopgap move, and could be why the base Pro didn't ship with the Touch Bar until this year.

 

[ZeitGeist]

Your post is ridiculous. Apple could easily design CPUs for the entire lineup. The people working at apple designing A-series CPUs have previously designed CPUs for everything from laptops to RISC workstations.

I’m well aware of PA Semi’s capabilities - and yes, they could. The question is what would Apple gain by doing so?

On laptops, possibly some benefits in terms of performance and power consumption - on desktops, the issues that I brought up pile up - resulting in a split architecture across the line.

You have conveniently ignored the relevant parts of my argument.

 

[ZeitGeist]

That's not a very strong case. You are showing a picture of a laptop 92% of the size of the 13" MacBook Pro.

I’m just going to put you on ‘ignore’ now, since your selective reading and ignoring factual information make for a rather ... pointless discussion.

 

[Shirasaki]

Tangent : I still feel sacrificing the illuminated Apple logo on the back, and eliminating the startup chime are both shortsighted Jony Ive decisions. Hopefully, those will eventually return.

To accomodate illuminates Apple logo, the back of the display cannot be made to the thinness we have today on MacBook Air. You could argue LED might do that, but it is such a gimmick design nowadays it does not make much sense anymore, let alone no iPhone or iPad has glowing Apple logo without some serious mods. Plus, only other people can see the glowing Apple logo most of the time.

It would make no sense to restrict this to just a line of light portables or ultra-portables.

Don’t say “makes no sense” regarding Apple’s Product line anymore. I would not be surprised if Apple revive MacBook and equip it with ARM processor. Actually, as soon as Steve Jobs is dead, Apple product line goes fragmented like any other PC and smartphone manufacturer. Multiple sizes and multiple versions. There is little difference between Apple and other companies in terms of product lineup now.

 

[KPOM]

I’m just going to put you on ‘ignore’ now, since your selective reading and ignoring factual information make for a rather ... pointless discussion.

It isn’t obvious at all that the 2-port package would either physically fit into the MacBook chassis or fit within the thermal capacity. Evidently it wasn’t possible to put in a Thunderbolt controller without adding active cooling.
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To accomodate illuminates Apple logo, the back of the display cannot be made to the thinness we have today on MacBook Air. You could argue LED might do that, but it is such a gimmick design nowadays it does not make much sense anymore, let alone no iPhone or iPad has glowing Apple logo without some serious mods. Plus, only other people can see the glowing Apple logo most of the time.

Don’t say “makes no sense” regarding Apple’s Product line anymore. I would not be surprised if Apple revive MacBook and equip it with ARM processor. Actually, as soon as Steve Jobs is dead, Apple product line goes fragmented like any other PC and smartphone manufacturer. Multiple sizes and multiple versions. There is little difference between Apple and other companies in terms of product lineup now.

It is definitely more fragmented than before, but not quite as much as other companies. They never drew the consumer vs. pro distinction on phones (which other companies did before the iPhone), and still don’t. With the iPad they have taken a “good, better, best” approach. There is the base iPad (the “good” budget model), the Air and Mini, which are basically the “better” model, just with a choice in size, and the “best” Pro model in choice of size. After this week’s move, their notebook line is almost back to consumer/pro, though the base 13” Pro model may also appeal to consumers.

 

[KPOM]

Your argument is all over the place.

First, you say that it's possible to place a 2nd USB-C port on the right hand side of the Macbook (where the headphone jack is located), then you say that it's also possible to place a 2nd port on the left-hand side alongside the 1st when others point out the space needed to run an extra cable.

My point isn't that there isn't enough internal space to fit a 2nd USB-C port, but that the tapered design of the Macbook simply doesn't allow the for addition of a 2nd port on the left. Even if you want to make a concession and rotate the port downwards at an angle to fit into the slope.

And maybe my point about the laptop being heavier wasn't clear enough, so I will explain it one more time. When I said it would increase the weight of the Macbook, I wasn't talking about the few grams added by a second port. Rather, I was looking at the difference in size and form factor of the 12" Macbook and the 13" MBA. Basically, to have 2 USB-C ports on one side, the laptop will have to thicker (ie: the size of the 13" MBP or MBA) to accommodate them.

And when the laptop is bigger, everything changes. The screen is larger (because why not?), which in turn necessitates a larger battery to power it, which is what contributes to the additional weight, even if nothing else changes.


So this is what it comes to. An appeal to authority when all else fails.

I suppose Apple could take a page from its history and bring back a smaller MacBook Air that is thicker and somewhat heavier than the 12” MacBook, but not as heavy as the 13”. I would be interested in a 2.3 lb MacBook Air. It’s just too much of a stretch for me to call a 2.75 lb notebook an ultraportable. The size and weight of the 11.6” MacBook Air is about the upper limit of an ultraportable based on today’s technology.

 

[ZeitGeist]

To accomodate illuminates Apple logo, the back of the display cannot be made to the thinness we have today on MacBook Air. You could argue LED might do that, but it is such a gimmick design nowadays it does not make much sense anymore, let alone no iPhone or iPad has glowing Apple logo without some serious mods.

Yes, I agree it's gimmicky -- but ultimately it contributed to some of the charm of the MacBook line. The backlight on displays is still provided in the same manner, so all it would require, even with super thin displays, is eliminating the opaque backing, and a translucent Apple icon. So while it would be possible to do so with current MacBook models, if the line ever switched to OLED, this would no longer be possible (OLED has no rear backlight).
Also, pointless to do so with iPhones or iPads, their backlight is nowhere near the back.

Plus, only other people can see the glowing Apple logo most of the time.

That was the whole point to begin with.
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Don’t say “makes no sense” regarding Apple’s Product line anymore. I would not be surprised if Apple revive MacBook and equip it with ARM processor. Actually, as soon as Steve Jobs is dead, Apple product line goes fragmented like any other PC and smartphone manufacturer.

Sadly, I agree with you - it does appear though that this is being reined in, as we are seeing.

 

[Shirasaki]

I’m just going to put you on ‘ignore’ now, since your selective reading and ignoring factual information make for a rather ... pointless discussion.

I would suggest you refrain from calling out certain forum member “ignoring you now m**k”. Just do what you think is right without publicly announcing it.
[doublepost=1563176980][/doublepost]

That was the whole point to begin with.

Then this would be one of the most interesting/weird point to begin with. Maybe Jobs felt proud of having a MacBook that stands out from the crowd.

 

[ZeitGeist]

Then this would be one of the most interesting/weird point to begin with. Maybe Jobs felt proud of having a MacBook that stands out from the crowd.

Seriously. You were not aware of the history and reason behind the illuminated Apple logo?

 

[Shirasaki]

Seriously. You were not aware of the history and reason behind the illuminated Apple logo?

I am not. I am not that “hard core Apple fan”, just a user taking advantage of ease to use and better international support of Apple devices.

 

[pacalis]

I'm really sad about this. There is nothing out there that's as elegant a solution. I've had mine for 3 years was waiting for an upgraded cpu. I take it everywhere and don't even notice it (unlike my 3lb 13" mpb). I find they're quite popular with the mid-career mobile person that has control of their devices.

My theory is they probably found that people with an 12" macbook don't also buy a ipad for travel. Thus, in the spirit of milking their existing customers for duplicatve products of different sizes, they took away their most beautiful product.

 

[ZeitGeist]

There’s no need for conspiracy theories - the 12” MacBook simply didn’t sell well enough, and cost too much to manufacture. That’s all there is to it.

It’s like all the similar theories surrounding the cancellation of the 17” MacBook Pro, or discontinuation of the Xserve.

“Y’all didn’t buy enough of them”, to paraphrase Steve Jobs.

 

[Narcaz]

There’s no need for conspiracy theories - the 12” MacBook simply didn’t sell well enough, and cost too much to manufacture. That’s all there is to it.

It’s like all the similar theories surrounding the cancellation of the 17” MacBook Pro, or discontinuation of the Xserve.

“Y’all didn’t buy enough of them”, to paraphrase Steve Jobs.

You are probably right, but Apple is also to blame for offering the most inconsistent and confusing notebook lineup during the product life cycle of the MB 12. This has been outlined in more depth by various posts in this thread. E.g. Old MBA without retina, 13MBP with and without Touch Bar etc and then the new MBA. Average joe didn't know what to buy.

And imo the value proposition outside the US wasn't good enough in the last two years. Those hefty price drops (-550€) in the last two weeks made me tempted to finally buy one. I was hoping for an updated MB 12 with two ports, Face ID, scissor keyboard and a more refined display bezel like the iPP 11''. So this could be the ultimate travel companion. But i guess the chances of this happening are now close to zero.

 

[ZeitGeist]

You are probably right, but Apple is also to blame for offering the most inconsistent and confusing notebook lineup during the product life cycle of the MB 12. This has been outlined in more depth by various posts in this thread. E.g. Old MBA without retina, 13MBP with and without Touch Bar etc and then the new MBA. Average joe didn't know what to buy.

Absolutely agree, and it appears that Apple is actively streamlining and simplifying their product lineup - coincidentally almost immediately after Jony Ive leaves, who appears to have been the greatest impediment to that, if you read between the lines.

And imo the value proposition outside the US wasn't good enough in the last two years. Those hefty price drops (-550€) in the last two weeks made me tempted to finally buy one. I was hoping for an updated MB 12 with two ports, Face ID, scissor keyboard and a more refined display bezel like the iPP 11''. So this could be the ultimate travel companion. But i guess the chances of this happening are now close to zero.

Agreed. Apple has now standardized all MacBook Pro models on having the TouchBar and TouchID, something that would never have fit into the 12” MacBook - which also contributed to it being removed from the product line.

 

[LordVic]

Absolutely agree, and it appears that Apple is actively streamlining and simplifying their product lineup - coincidentally almost immediately after Jony Ive leaves, who appears to have been the greatest impediment to that, if you read between the lines.

Agreed. Apple has now standardized all MacBook Pro models on having the TouchBar and TouchID, something that would never have fit into the 12” MacBook - which also contributed to it being removed from the product line.

I'm not sure this is an Ive thing leaving, but more a general "house cleaning" that looks to have potentially started a quarter or two ago.

There are more than just Ive leaving right now. There's been a few stories over the last few months of other VP's and prominent people who are "retiring" or moving on. several chip designers. Angela A, Ive, some other designers as well. Who knows what else.


I think this is more a reaction by Tim Cook to the financials and changing dynamics of established markets. Mac sales have been steadily declining for numerous quarters now. Mac Marketshare has been shrinking again internationally (I think back down to around 6% from their high of about 11% a couple years back). Revenues have been buoyed by increased prices keeping margins up, but that can only take you so far as higher prices can feedback to lower volume of sales.

Tim Cook is repeating what Steve Jobs did last time this trend had occurred. Slashing the product lineup to simplify it and cut costs by having to keep additional manufacturing for the additional products. Apple only needs 3 chassis now instead of 4. 3 sets of internal components instead of 4. etc.

We are also seeing more and more internal product choices showing "nickle and diming" to reduce overhead. Look at the MacBook air's performance of storage (while it's likely good enough for Air users, it's even slower than last years model)

putting the touchbar in all MacBook Pros believe it or not likely saves costs now as they can use a single keyboard design accross the "pro" range now instead of keeping non-touch bar ones and touch bar ones manufactured.

They've "cancelled" their AR/VR research with several key people leaving. They've cancelled products and research into upgrading them, such as Airport's or airpowers.

Tim Cook is starting to run up against the "Scully problem" and he's trying to reproduce Job's "2nd coming".

This could be a great thing as it makes room to bring in new designers and young blood to flesh out and expand the products lineups fresh. Or it could just be a symptom of Tim Cook unable to really handle a mature market.

I'm still undecided myself fi I believe this will help them fix a few of the market problems they've encountered over the last year, or is just going to wind up with lower quality products for higher price. I don't have a lot of confidence in Tim Cooks motivations for his actions. But I'm just an armchair CEO and could be entirely wrong. I just feel T.C.'s motivation is skewed by basing his performance and personal value on stock price valuation instead of companies direct performance as wrong headed and puts the wrong incentive on doing well.

 

[HappyIntro]

I'm really sad about this. There is nothing out there that's as elegant a solution. I've had mine for 3 years was waiting for an upgraded cpu. I take it everywhere and don't even notice it (unlike my 3lb 13" mpb). I find they're quite popular with the mid-career mobile person that has control of their devices.

My theory is they probably found that people with an 12" macbook don't also buy a ipad for travel. Thus, in the spirit of milking their existing customers for duplicatve products of different sizes, they took away their most beautiful product.

So true, it really is/was their most beautiful, elegant product. It's not perfect, but it absolutely delivers on its premise of MacOS in the smallest footprint. I bet if Intel had a newer Y chip to upgrade to, they might have upgraded the CPU along with a small tweak or two and kept it a year or so longer.

EDIT: I'll add that I'd bet that the vast majority of MacBook owners also have an iPad as well.

 

[Clix Pix]

So true, it really is/was their most beautiful, elegant product. It's not perfect, but it absolutely delivers on its premise of MacOS in the smallest footprint. I bet if Intel had a newer Y chip to upgrade to, they might have upgraded the CPU along with a small tweak or two and kept it a year or so longer.

EDIT: I'll add that I'd bet that the vast majority of MacBook owners also have an iPad as well.

I have a 2017 12" MacBook (maxed-out) and, yes, I also have an iPad Mini 5 and an iPad Pro 12.9......I use all of them for either different purposes or at times the same purpose. The iPad Mini 5 and the 12" MacBook travel with me and complement each other quite nicely.

 

[pacalis]

I couldn't resist the ipad thing - it is more about the iPad pro. As you all know, the iPad pros can run as much as $2000 which is the competing low weight solution. For my purposes it is totally useless. At $1300 and $1750, which I think the Macbooks sold at, they weren't particularly expensive.

I continue to believe that Apple is suffering from margin-itis - same as they had with Scully. Not every product has to make margin. A beautiful, low margin product that doesn't sell can still emphasize the companies design leadership and create a halo. Car companies have these. This product did that. The thunderbolt display also did that. I find it short-sighted that both we're killed.

At present, Apple is losing mind-share because they're not that different and even seeming a bit old in design on all but their very top end products. For most applications the Macbook air and pros look and perform basically the same. Sure, if you have more budget, or a higher computational need, you buy the pro. It's not as though dropping 0.25lbs really makes a computer an "air" so there's basically no differentiation except power in their line up (same thing that caused Dell to lose it's edge over time.) Anyway, just bummed that I can't upgrade my daily driver.

Edit for Clix - ya, I have a mini too and a pro, just find it nice how a 12' fits on a plane, or my lap and doesn't flop around and so I stopped carrying the ipad and charger.

 

[Clix Pix]

Actually, right now I am on my 12.9” iPad because we are having a thunderstorm and this device has cellular data, which my 12” MacBook and my 15” MacBook Pro do not. That cellular data access comes in very handy when there is a sudden power outage!

Yes, I agree that the 12” MacBook is perfect for use on a plane. Most of my traveling is done by car and I like having both devices with me in the hotel so that I can either do things on the MacBook that the iPad can’t, or I can sit in a comfortable chair or be in the bed and using the iPad to simply catch up on what’s happening in the forums I follow.....

 

[ZeitGeist]

I'm not sure this is an Ive thing leaving, but more a general "house cleaning" that looks to have potentially started a quarter or two ago.

It started, at least in planning, approx 2 years ago.

Angela Ahrendts was fired, for all practical purposes. She even used the common code of “wanting to spend more time with my kids” - plus, she has done absolutely nothing with and for the Apple Stores over the years that she was hired. Nothing.

Similar to Jimmy Iovine who cashed in his chips and his $3 billion - as his promised contributions never materialized for Apple (it wasn’t a bad headphone company) - and the jury is out if he wasn’t allowed to do what he wanted, or whether he just over promised his capabilities. I fee the later, but that’s a separate discussion.

Jony Ive, finally, was seen as an impediment to any significant advances or innovations. He basically just called in his thin-obsession, but has started to be phased out over 3 years ago. In his position as chief design officer, though, he exerted too much power, and did too little - which is why he was encouraged to leave, in the manner that he did. The fact that Tim Cook hasn’t filled Ive’s old position is telling all you need to know here. I have no doubt Jony will take many loyalists with him. Good.

Remember Scott Forstall? He was also fired and Apple has survived - mostly because in the public view, no one knew what he did. iOS though, still hasn’t recovered from his departure (the operating system leaks memory like a sieve and has lost many of its most reliable functions), but Apple has done ok.

I think Tim Cook knows what he is doing, albeit I agree that he seems to be too much beholden to the share price.

 

[toke lahti]

Actually, right now I am on my 12.9” iPad because we are having a thunderstorm and this device has cellular data, which my 12” MacBook and my 15” MacBook Pro do not. That cellular data access comes in very handy when there is a sudden power outage!

You can’t use a mac with cellular data?

 

[Shirasaki]

You can’t use a mac with cellular data?

He wants integrated LTE access like certain surface laptop.