Apple Discontinues Full-Sized HomePod to Focus on HomePod Mini

[vipergts2207]

Why doesn't everyone not already have EVERYTHING they want? Is it maybe because people but things a little at a time, and as the items prove their worth or their needs expand, they might buy more? Now you're really reaching, dude. Sorry, but I don't have time for this pretzel logic. All the best.

Sorry, there's no pretzel logic there. If they haven't already proven their worth to you, then perhaps that's part of the problem. At the end of the day Apple is discontinuing the product because it was apparently highly unpopular.

 

[ericwn]

Just managed to order one of the last ones from Costco Canada. I received a black one as a present over a year ago and always wanted to try two set up as a pair.

 

[zhenya]

This was really a product that didn't have an audience. It might have had good sound quality for what it is, but no audiophile is going to give something like this the time of day. The good sound is all based on psyco-acoustics and coloring the sound and audiophiles hate that. There is no way to EQ the sound. It's what Apple thinks sounds best. Also, there is no way to listen to other media sources like CDs, Vinyl LPs, or lossless streaming sources. Marketing it on "great sound" alone wasn't a selling point.

The smarts of it is not at the same level as Google and Amazon products and it was a lot more expensive. It was a product that only really appealed to the hardcore Apple customers that only use Apple music (for the most part). It's just too small of a market for a company as large as Apple to waste their time on. If the Mini sells better then it makes sense just to focus on that.

This is highly inaccurate. Yes, the HomePod is constantly adjusting the sound to the location its placed in. This is essential to achieve the extremely flat frequency response they are able to achieve from an infinitely large possible set of locations. This isn't 'psyco-acoustics' or 'colored sound' - again - the actual frequency response at your ear will be very close to the targeted Harman curve.

A pair of HomePods replaced a very expensive 'audiophile' setup in our living room nearly 3 years ago. From the various spots we *actually* listen to music from in this room, the HomePods sound far better, and are so much easier to use that they actually get used multiple times per day now vs. the older system, that even with Airplay (via an Airport Express) was barely ever used.

A HomePod should have appealed to anyone who loves to listen to music without sitting in a dedicated listening chair. Inevitably the mainstream press missed this entirely and mostly compared it to the cheap junk coming from Amazon and Google. For us, with a dozen HomePods in the house now, Siri is a gateway to providing perpetual music in our lives first and foremost. Anything else Siri offers is simply by happenstance.

 

[turbineseaplane]

For us, with a dozen HomePods in the house now

Ouch!
What are you going to do when they start dying or support fades?

I guess another way I'd ask it is -- what if Apple said "Poof! - they are done in 3 months - they will turn off and die"
(I know, hypothetical...and not happening)

I'm just curious what you consider the "next best option" right now?

 

[zhenya]

Ouch!
What are you going to do when they start dying or support fades?

I guess another way I'd ask it is -- what if Apple said "Poof! - they are done in 3 months - they will turn off and die"
(I know, hypothetical...and not happening)

I'm just curious what you consider the "next best option" right now?

8 of them are HomePod Minis, so not particularly worried about Apple turning them off. I fully expect our full sized HomePods to last another 3-5 years, if not much more. I also think there is a pretty good chance that Apple will release *something* else to fill this space at some point.

Lastly, I'm not at all worried about them ever becoming full paperweights short of hardware failure. At the very least there is no reason Apple won't keep them compatible with Apple Music for a long time. Beyond that, there is always Airplay, which was originally released in 2004, and that hardware is still functional with modern devices today.

 

[turbineseaplane]

8 of them are HomePod Minis, so not particularly worried about Apple turning them off. I fully expect our full sized HomePods to last another 3-5 years, if not much more. I also think there is a pretty good chance that Apple will release *something* else to fill this space at some point.

Lastly, I'm not at all worried about them ever becoming full paperweights short of hardware failure. At the very least there is no reason Apple won't keep them compatible with Apple Music for a long time. Beyond that, there is always Airplay, which was originally released in 2004, and that hardware is still functional with modern devices today.

But what if you had to make a move in the next few months?

I'm curious what you think is the next best alternative right now?

Think of it this way - since HomePods are largely now out of stock/gone everywhere (at retail prices), what would you recommend to someone not yet fully invested as you are?

 

[zhenya]

But what if you had to make a move in the next few months?

I'm curious what you think is the next best alternative right now?

Think of it this way - since HomePods are largely now out of stock/gone everywhere (at retail prices), what would you recommend to someone not yet fully invested as you are?

Well, I'd buy a couple more HomePods while they could be found at any price.

Otherwise, I'd almost certainly buy from Sonos if I had no other options. I tested the original Sonos One vs. the HomePod early on and sound wise they are reasonably close.

 

[Ricoh GR]

This is highly inaccurate. Yes, the HomePod is constantly adjusting the sound to the location its placed in. This is essential to achieve the extremely flat frequency response they are able to achieve from an infinitely large possible set of locations. This isn't 'psyco-acoustics' or 'colored sound' - again - the actual frequency response at your ear will be very close to the targeted Harman curve.

A pair of HomePods replaced a very expensive 'audiophile' setup in our living room nearly 3 years ago. From the various spots we *actually* listen to music from in this room, the HomePods sound far better, and are so much easier to use that they actually get used multiple times per day now vs. the older system, that even with Airplay (via an Airport Express) was barely ever used.

A HomePod should have appealed to anyone who loves to listen to music without sitting in a dedicated listening chair. Inevitably the mainstream press missed this entirely and mostly compared it to the cheap junk coming from Amazon and Google. For us, with a dozen HomePods in the house now, Siri is a gateway to providing perpetual music in our lives first and foremost. Anything else Siri offers is simply by happenstance.

The thought of a HomePod also appealed to me...

...but in practice the audio quality was lackluster. Booming bass drowns out mids and vocals, this is well-reported: https://venturebeat.com/2018/02/12/...nly-siri-fans-should-consider-this-bass-bomb/. On paper it's a beast of a speaker, but performance leaves much to be desired.

Also, there's no software solution that allows you to modify playback on the device itself. For example, Sonos has a software solution that allows you to adjust the EQ across Sonos hardware: https://support.sonos.com/s/article/2850?language=en_US

 

[DakotaGuy]

This is highly inaccurate. Yes, the HomePod is constantly adjusting the sound to the location its placed in. This is essential to achieve the extremely flat frequency response they are able to achieve from an infinitely large possible set of locations. This isn't 'psyco-acoustics' or 'colored sound' - again - the actual frequency response at your ear will be very close to the targeted Harman curve.

A pair of HomePods replaced a very expensive 'audiophile' setup in our living room nearly 3 years ago. From the various spots we *actually* listen to music from in this room, the HomePods sound far better, and are so much easier to use that they actually get used multiple times per day now vs. the older system, that even with Airplay (via an Airport Express) was barely ever used.

A HomePod should have appealed to anyone who loves to listen to music without sitting in a dedicated listening chair. Inevitably the mainstream press missed this entirely and mostly compared it to the cheap junk coming from Amazon and Google. For us, with a dozen HomePods in the house now, Siri is a gateway to providing perpetual music in our lives first and foremost. Anything else Siri offers is simply by happenstance.

Not inaccurate at all. I have a large CD collection and a vinyl collection. There is no way to use my nice Onkyo CD player or Thorens turntable with a HomePod. I also prefer streaming from Spotify. The Onkyo stereo reciever that I am using has a lot of streaming choices. It's a dedicated 2 channel 100 watt per channel receiver with HDMI and an LFE output. I'm driving two 5 1/4" Klipsch Reference Premier bookshelf speakers and a 10" Klipsch subwoofer. I'd put my system up against your so-called superior HomePod any day for accuracy, quality, deep lows, pristine highs and loudness. It is only a mid-level system and I know it costs more then a HomePod, but it is more powerful and has a lot more options for high fidelity listening.

Other places in my house I use smart speakers, but not in my dedicated listening room. Apple marketed this as replacing the equipment I own, but it doesn't replace it for me. The Mini makes a lot more sense because it is good for the smarts speaker market. Price matters more then audio quality for this market.

 

[jagooch]

My HomePods are best at music but since I mostly listen to podcasts or audiobooks, that feature wasn’t too important to me
.

They are ok as home assistant devices, but even with voice recognition enabled, Siri will be activated by complete strangers when I’m a conference call.

What I really like about them is Apple’s privacy policy. Amazon and Google don’t value your privacy anywhere near what Apple does. I always felt more comfortable with Apple devices as home assistants.

 

[zhenya]

The thought of a HomePod also appealed to me...

...but in practice the audio quality was lackluster. Booming bass drowns out mids and vocals, this is well-reported: https://venturebeat.com/2018/02/12/...nly-siri-fans-should-consider-this-bass-bomb/. On paper it's a beast of a speaker, but performance leaves much to be desired.

Also, there's no software solution that allows you to modify playback on the device itself. For example, Sonos has a software solution that allows you to adjust the EQ across Sonos hardware: https://support.sonos.com/s/article/2850?language=en_US

I hardly consider VentureBeat a source I'd turn to for quality audio gear analysis. By the standards of the vast majority of speakers in this category (Bose, anyone?), the bass is extremely constrained and the HomePod is regarded quite highly for the sound per dollar at its price point. Apple tends to have a house sound of their audio gear that trends towards the previously mentioned Harman curve.

Of course there is no EQ option for the HomePod - the entire point is that it's dynamically eq'ed to the position it is placed in.

Not inaccurate at all. I have a large CD collection and a vinyl collection. There is no way to use my nice Onkyo CD player or Thorens turntable with a HomePod. I also prefer streaming from Spotify. The Onkyo stereo reciever that I am using has a lot of streaming choices. It's a dedicated 2 channel 100 watt per channel receiver with HDMI and an LFE output. I'm driving two 5 1/4" Klipsch Reference Premier bookshelf speakers and a 10" Klipsch subwoofer. I'd put my system up against your so-called superior HomePod any day for accuracy, quality, deep lows, pristine highs and loudness. It is only a mid-level system and I know it costs more then a HomePod, but it is more powerful and has a lot more options for high fidelity listening.

Other places in my house I use smart speakers, but not in my dedicated listening room. Apple marketed this as replacing the equipment I own, but it doesn't replace it for me. The Mini makes a lot more sense because it is good for the smarts speaker market. Price matters more then audio quality for this market.

You can, in fact, connect a set of HomePods to your vinyl rig by connecting any iOS device with a headphone jack and the AirChord app.

You're right, any decent traditional stereo system will sound better than a HomePod pair in a dedicated listening room if you're sitting in the stereo sweet spot. However that's not how we actually listen to music in the home - we want great sound from a variety of locations in the room, and a pair of HomePods fits this role far better than a traditional stereo system (as noted, ours replaced a much more expensive setup than your own). I'll note that for dedicated listening I almost exclusively use high end headphones which trounce the vast majority of speaker systems at any price at a fraction of the cost.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Of course there is no EQ option for the HomePod - the entire point is that it's dynamically eq'ed to the position it is placed in.

Well, that's not really a complete explanation/excuse for Apple.
They very much could offer some "bias" settings that could give your optionality on the results from the dynamic EQ.

I've always found HomePods to be too bass forward...often to the point of running right over other parts of the sound.

Just different usage scenarios could benefit from that (like people in apartments/condos who need the bass moderated a bit).

The lack of flexibility in situations like this is where Apple's approach really hurts the overall appeal of their offerings.

 

[Ricoh GR]

I hardly consider VentureBeat a source I'd turn to for quality audio gear analysis. By the standards of the vast majority of speakers in this category (Bose, anyone?), the bass is extremely constrained and the HomePod is regarded quite highly for the sound per dollar at its price point. Apple tends to have a house sound of their audio gear that trends towards the previously mentioned Harman curve.

Of course there is no EQ option for the HomePod - the entire point is that it's dynamically eq'ed to the position it is placed in.

At $349 or $299 most recently, I'd hardly consider this good bang for your buck. I purchased mine for $199 and feel that it was a regrettable expense.

Again, you can't have a speaker with mids and vocals that are drowned out by bass.... and not allow for a manual EQ adjustment. That's just nonsensical. *and yes, I'm aware that with Apple music you can adjust the EQ via the Music app*

I'll reiterate that aesthetically and on paper this thing looks like a monster, I had high hopes too.

 

[zhenya]

At $349 or $299 most recently, I'd hardly consider this good bang for your buck. I purchased mine for $199 and feel that it was a regrettable expense.

Again, you can't have a speaker with mids and vocals that are drowned out by bass.... and not allow for a manual EQ adjustment. That's just nonsensical. *and yes, I'm aware that with Apple music you can adjust the EQ via the Music app*

I'll reiterate that aesthetically and on paper this thing looks like a monster, I had high hopes too.

Compared to what else is available on the market - when viewed as a high end speaker, even at $300 it’s a good value because there really isn’t anything at all out there with the same set of features. Sonos has some offerings that are close, but without nearly the same quality of sound from the variety of locations as they are missing the dynamic eq. This is very reminiscent of all the hand wringing by people over the cost of the Airpods Max. They complain that they are too expensive - but when viewed with an unbiased eye compared to what else is actually out there, the Max, like the HomePod, are priced appropriately.

I will say that you are pretty solidly in the minority if you find the HomePod to have overwhelming bass. Have you ever listened to a Bose home speaker, let alone the vast majority of car audio systems ever made? With 20+ years of listening critically to this kind of gear, I have a well established aversion to bass heavy sound signatures - it’s one thing that will make me return almost any audio purchase. In the numerous places we have used our HomePods - now across several rooms in two different homes, I’ve never felt like the HomePod was in that spectrum. Read the original reviews from audiophile-tilted magazines and sites and you’ll read basically the same.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I will say that you are pretty solidly in the minority if you find the HomePod to have overwhelming bass.

How are we to evaluate the accuracy of that statement? It doesn't seem like we can either way.

With 20+ years of listening critically to this kind of gear, I have a well established aversion to bass heavy sound signatures - it’s one thing that will make me return almost any audio purchase.

That sort of takes us into completely subjective "I'm experienced and know how x,y,z should sound", of which we can all do in circles all day long.

This probably ends the discussion here with simple disagreement I guess.

 

[zhenya]

How are we to evaluate the accuracy of that statement? It doesn't seem like we can either way.



That sort of takes us into completely subjective "I'm experienced and know how x,y,z should sound", of which we can all do in circles all day long.

This probably ends the discussion here with simple disagreement I guess.

Well, having participated in the discussions of this sort in numerous more audio-focused forums for the few years the HomePod has been out, it’s simply not a characteristic that comes up frequently in those circles when describing the HomePod’s sound signature. No offense, but I consider this forum among the worst of any I’ve come across when it comes to gathering subjective opinions of sound - especially of Apple products. People here still insist that the AirPods Pro sound somewhere between awful and indistinguishable from the standard wired buds while among headphone audiophiles the APP’s have become something of a reference standard for true wireless IEM’s with measurements from multiple sources to back those impressions up.

Seriously though, search ‘audiophile homepod’ and read the reviews from the major magazines and sites that come up. I’m hard pressed to find one of them that claims that the HomePod has an overwhelming bass presence. In this case I trust the reviews because they match my own long-term listening impressions.

 

[turbineseaplane]

AirPods Pro as a reference standard....wow
My ears must be broken.

I’m gonna check out.
Have a good one everyone

 

[DakotaGuy]

Well, that's not really a complete explanation/excuse for Apple.
They very much could offer some "bias" settings that could give your optionality on the results from the dynamic EQ.

I've always found HomePods to be too bass forward...often to the point of running right over other parts of the sound.

Just different usage scenarios could benefit from that (like people in apartments/condos who need the bass moderated a bit).

The lack of flexibility in situations like this is where Apple's approach really hurts the overall appeal of their offerings.

Well they are using a 4" driver to make that bass. A 4" driver is not a subwoofer so if they really are going as low as 40 hz that's taking an extreme amount of excursion to move that amount of air. I would expect a driver forced to deal with that much bass and also to handle the mids at the same time to run over itself at times. It's just a limit of a compact design. It doesn't mean it sounds bad just that there are compromises made.

 

[vipergts2207]

Well, having participated in the discussions of this sort in numerous more audio-focused forums for the few years the HomePod has been out, it’s simply not a characteristic that comes up frequently in those circles when describing the HomePod’s sound signature. No offense, but I consider this forum among the worst of any I’ve come across when it comes to gathering subjective opinions of sound - especially of Apple products. People here still insist that the AirPods Pro sound somewhere between awful and indistinguishable from the standard wired buds while among headphone audiophiles the APP’s have become something of a reference standard for true wireless IEM’s with measurements from multiple sources to back those impressions up.

Seriously though, search ‘audiophile homepod’ and read the reviews from the major magazines and sites that come up. I’m hard pressed to find one of them that claims that the HomePod has an overwhelming bass presence. In this case I trust the reviews because they match my own long-term listening impressions.

Whathifi cites muddy mids as a negative. But that’s a bit besides the point anyway because sound quality isn’t why this product failed. It was too expensive and too limited in capability.

Well they are using a 4" driver to make that bass. A 4" driver is not a subwoofer so if they really are going as low as 40 hz that's taking an extreme amount of excursion to move that amount of air. I would expect a driver forced to deal with that much bass and also to handle the mids at the same time to run over itself at times. It's just a limit of a compact design. It doesn't mean it sounds bad just that there are compromises made.

40 Hz at -15 dB maybe lol.

 

[DakotaGuy]

Whathifi cites muddy mids as a negative. But that’s a bit besides the point anyway because sound quality isn’t why this product failed. It was too expensive and too limited in capability.

True. It is a good sounding product for what it is. The smart speaker market values price and feature set over sound quality. The sound quality market is looking for a higher level of audio fidelity then any small smart speaker can deliver. In the end, it was a product that didn't really have a market.

 

[stevet]

My only concern is that say within a year (pulling timeline out of you know where) to access Apple Music requires version 14.6 which the HomePod will never get. Basically making it useless by itself.

That was the point I was trying to make to another poster. It’s not that it couldn’t play music anymore but would be crippled from playing music. That’s where the lack of aux in or Bluetooth really shines a bad light on the device.

 

[jagooch]

Well, that's not really a complete explanation/excuse for Apple.
They very much could offer some "bias" settings that could give your optionality on the results from the dynamic EQ.

I've always found HomePods to be too bass forward...often to the point of running right over other parts of the sound.

Just different usage scenarios could benefit from that (like people in apartments/condos who need the bass moderated a bit).

The lack of flexibility in situations like this is where Apple's approach really hurts the overall appeal of their offerings.

+1 on too much bass. On everything, music, video, podcasts.

 

[I7guy]

That was the point I was trying to make to another poster. It’s not that it couldn’t play music anymore but would be crippled from playing music. That’s where the lack of aux in or Bluetooth really shines a bad light on the device.

So basically the HomePod will go (if the above comes to pass) from a smart speaker to a dumb speaker. And I can still play music via AirPlay 2. (Same as if it had Bluetooth)

 

[Ricoh GR]

+1 on too much bass. On everything, music, video, podcasts.

Careful, there's a user here who frequents audiophile forums and claims that this is a non-issue. Prepare to be gas-lighted

 

[MichaelAdam]

This is highly inaccurate. Yes, the HomePod is constantly adjusting the sound to the location its placed in. This is essential to achieve the extremely flat frequency response they are able to achieve from an infinitely large possible set of locations. This isn't 'psyco-acoustics' or 'colored sound' - again - the actual frequency response at your ear will be very close to the targeted Harman curve.

A pair of HomePods replaced a very expensive 'audiophile' setup in our living room nearly 3 years ago. From the various spots we *actually* listen to music from in this room, the HomePods sound far better, and are so much easier to use that they actually get used multiple times per day now vs. the older system, that even with Airplay (via an Airport Express) was barely ever used.

A HomePod should have appealed to anyone who loves to listen to music without sitting in a dedicated listening chair. Inevitably the mainstream press missed this entirely and mostly compared it to the cheap junk coming from Amazon and Google. For us, with a dozen HomePods in the house now, Siri is a gateway to providing perpetual music in our lives first and foremost. Anything else Siri offers is simply by happenstance.

Very good description of the HomePod and I have the same listening experience. Being a music producer for 25 years, I was so surprised to have a new listening experience and have music all around in my home again. Although I would not agree when you say that mainstream press have missed ... but Apple has not been pushing in the right direction the press and the audience, if any direction ... no dedicated booth, slow to update to stereo and slower to pair it with Apple TV and atmos, ... HomePod are best speakers for music listening at home in a revolutionary way ... period ... I am sad that I might not be able to replace or upgrade in the future ...