Apple Discussed 'Punitive Measures' Against Netflix for Dropping In-App Purchases

[zorinlynx]

The only reason I’m keeping my Netflix subscription running, despite the fact I barely watch anything, is so that Apple gets their cut. I don’t want to unsubscribe and then at a latter date resubscribe and have all the money go to Netflix. It’s a matter of principle.

I feel the opposite way. Why should Apple get a cut? They don't run Netflix's servers. They don't provide Netflix's content. All they do is serve the app when you install it, which is a one time deal. After that Apple does nothing ongoing to support Netflix.

Apple does deserve to be paid when they're providing an ongoing service, like iCloud for example. But the cost of providing the app download in the store is covered by the $100 a year developer account cost. That's it. Apple got paid.

Stop giving Apple money for no reason. Buy their products instead if you want to support them (not that they need more support!)

 

[m11rphy]

its the same software bruh the only diffrence is ios uses appkit mostly as a layer on top of the os

yeah but apple decided they wanted iOS to function differently with regards to installing apps, they didn't want it to be like MacOS in that regard. It must have been a wise move judging by how many they sold

 

[Analog Kid]

[...] what if your employer discussed cutting your pay in half but didn't actually end up doing it? You'd still probably be frustrated and start looking elsewhere for employment. Sometimes the fact that something is even being considered is enough to cause concern.

If my employer discussed cutting my pay because I stopped being a productive asset, and then didn't end up doing it but let me keep using their tools for free, I wouldn't be frustrated at all to know they discussed it-- and I'd be shocked if they didn’t.

 

[I7guy]

I will quote the article I linked above:

"But also, one app developer revealed to Congress that it — just like WordPress — had been forced to monetize a largely free app. That developer testified that Apple had demanded in-app purchases (IAP), even though Apple had approved its app without them two years earlier — and that when the dev dared send an email to customers notifying them of the change, Apple threatened to remove the app and blocked all updates.

That developer was ProtonMail [...]"

Yep, there was a precedent set before protonmail and maybe apple didn't catch them at first. But I understand Apple. You don't walk into Target and see signs saying Walmart is cheaper, which is the physical equivalent of what proton was doing. Apple wasn't requiring IAP, it was requiring a protonmail user to sign-up for the free-tier from the phone app, and a paid user not to be directed to protons' website for signon. Seems fair as long as the rules of the game are consistent across application types.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I will quote the article I linked above:

"But also, one app developer revealed to Congress that it — just like WordPress — had been forced to monetize a largely free app. That developer testified that Apple had demanded in-app purchases (IAP), even though Apple had approved its app without them two years earlier — and that when the dev dared send an email to customers notifying them of the change, Apple threatened to remove the app and blocked all updates.

That developer was ProtonMail [...]"

Sooooo, the fact that this doesn’t even mention the fact that they listed prices in the app… which was against Apple’s rules even though Apple didn’t call them out on it for two years is a little bit suspect.

 

[WiseAJ]

Same here. I wonder how long it will take to hit. As soon as it does and the price is the same, I'm going to cancel the IAP version and sign up directly, so Netflix can keep more of my money. I watch most of my Netflix on a non-Apple device anyway!

Why...? When Netflix inevitable raises it yet again I'm sure the delay for IAP will be greater than directly through Netflix.

I'll still save more money with IAP anyway even if the price is the same since I can use my Apple card for 3% back.

 

[jetrois]

your

If my employer discussed cutting my pay because I stopped being a productive asset, and then didn't end up doing it but let me keep using their tools for free, I wouldn't be frustrated at all to know they discussed it-- and I'd be shocked if they didn’t.

thats the wrong kind of conclusion to draw your perverting the issue to support your stance.

IE your cognitive bias is showing .

This would be more like your land lord discussing eviction proceedings with their lawyer as a retaliatory measure for some infraction. When you have also paid your Rent per year not just per month.

Like saying hey we dont like that this tenant is a youtuber. Its not aginst the law but I should get a cut of their salary because they work from home and I own it. it also shouldnt matter that they have paid up ahead of time and that they owe you nothing.

 

[m11rphy]

your

thats the wrong kind of conclusion to draw your perverting the issue to support your stance.

IE your cognitive bias is showing .

This would be more like your land lord discussing eviction proceedings with their lawyer as a retaliatory measure for some infraction. When you have also paid your Rent per year not just per month.

Like saying hey we dont like that this tenant is a youtuber. Its not aginst the law but I should get a cut of their salary because they work from home and I own it. it also shouldnt matter that they have paid up ahead of time and that they owe you nothing.

Where did apple discuss evicting Netflix from the App Store?

 

[Analog Kid]

Apple is acting like mobsters here, if you want to stay in business we'll take a regular 30% of your money.

Today, there is no in-app purchase option for Netflix, and those who want to watch Netflix on an iPhone or an iPad must first sign up on the web, with Apple collecting no money.

You can see how I might have a hard time conceding your point…

 

[jetrois]

Where did apple discuss evicting Netflix from the App Store?

I was speaking more about apps like hay

https://twitter.com/x/status/1272968382329942017

 

[WiseAJ]

The only reason I’m keeping my Netflix subscription running, despite the fact I barely watch anything, is so that Apple gets their cut. I don’t want to unsubscribe and then at a latter date resubscribe and have all the money go to Netflix. It’s a matter of principle.

I'm in that boat too. Once I do get pushed to cancel (Them raising the price again too high) I'll likely only resubscribe for a couple months of the year, one month at a time.

I probably should do that now.

 

[MauiPa]

Boy the haters have come out strong. FYI what business doesn't discuss it's alternatives, especially in emerging markets? It would have been utterly wrong of apple not to discuss what its alternatives were on its own platform. sure, they got some wrong, they got some right. Ultimately, Netflix got the deal it thought was appropriate and that set the standard for other firms with their own subscription and payment services, like Epic who can sell its own vbucks(?) outside of the App Store and its customers can use them on iOS (well before they went all hissy fitty and removed themselves from the App Store by violating the terms of the contract).

So what do you think Amazon would say to someone who wanted to have a buy button on the Amazon website that bypassed Amazon? O wait, does Epic have a buy in apple store button on their web site? Come on people, it is time to just see the facts straight up with no emotion. apple didn't get everything right, not at all, but it is their platform, and they have a reasonable set of rules to use it. did they perhaps try to overreach at times, yup. But the market ultimately decides.

 

[m11rphy]

I was speaking more about apps like hay

https://twitter.com/x/status/1272968382329942017

we are talking about Netflix and what apple "discussed" doing to them which
Apple's App Store Business Management Director Carson Oliver sent out an email in February 2018 outlining Netflix's testing plans and asked his fellow App Store executives whether Apple should take "punitive measures" against Netflix.

Do we want to take any punitive measures in response to the test (for examples, pulling all global featuring during the test period)? If so, how should those punitive measures be communicated to Netflix?

This isn't a landlord discussing eviction proceedings with their lawyer as a retaliatory measure for some infraction, it more like the landlord discussing not inviting them to their next party

 

[Ethosik]

Just because they didn’t do it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be opened up for discussion. Regardless of your view, it’s messed up that they were even considering punishing them. That’s going too far.

And that’s what they decided. They agreed that it was too far. Otherwise they would have did it.

So who cares if it was an internal discussion. They came to the correct conclusion.

 

[MauiPa]

The AppStores Rule needs to re-written for subscriptions service app!

probably, and Apple should get an x% (x being 1% or something), that way Spotify, Epic and Netflix pay something for the App Store, but not much, as the companies are doing the sign ups, the billing, collecting, etc. It is still fair though if Apple gets a regular cut of the in app purchases. for example, I used to find products on amazon, then buy them direct from the vendor thinking I was doing the vendor a service. One day, I got a stupid vendor that screwed up my ship to address, when I found the error, I called within 15 minutes to change it and they "couldn't" change the order. Now I will use amazon because I have trust in their payment services, same for Apple, people might trust the payment services a whole lot more than company x and prefer to buy through apple. they should have that choice

 

[Analog Kid]

your

thats the wrong kind of conclusion to draw your perverting the issue to support your stance.

IE your cognitive bias is showing .

This would be more like your land lord discussing eviction proceedings with their lawyer as a retaliatory measure for some infraction. When you have also paid your Rent per year not just per month.

Like saying hey we dont like that this tenant is a youtuber. Its not aginst the law but I should get a cut of their salary because they work from home and I own it. it also shouldnt matter that they have paid up ahead of time and that they owe you nothing.

Ok, I think you’re arguing with me over someone else’s analogy, but let’s look at yours.

Netflix didn’t violate any agreements, and Apple wasn’t discussing evicting them. Also, Netflix was planning to stop paying rent beyond the $100 everyone else does.

Netflix was saying they’d stop paying rent, and all Apple did was say “you’re welcome to stay, but we’re going to take your sign off the building and use it for someone else”. I still don’t see the problem. Why give Netflix the special privilege of premium advertising over other paying customers?

 

[Amazing Iceman]

None directly against Netflix, but the fact that it was even brought up leads to question was it done to others?

The fact that the idea was rejected shows the position of the majority of the decision makers.
Nobody is perfect. Sales people will fight to avoid loosing their commission or bonus or whatever makes them many.

As an example, your banker, insurance agent, car salesperson, etc...

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The result is a little bit of inconvenience in that you have to open a web browser to sign up. There are a lot of apps which require that for their service, and some require any subsequent setting option changes to be done via a web browser. No big deal for me. Once you have signed up and got the option settings like you want them, most of my streaming apps like Netflix simply ask if you want to activate the app via entering the sign-in info or by using the web or a device that already has the app setup on it. It takes hardly any extra time. I don’t blame Netflix and other companies from thumbing their noses at Apple and its extortion methods.

Actually as this has highlighted it brings benefits to those companies like Netflix as not using iap makes it harder to cancel. I’m pretty sure that is also a large part of the considerations.

Further more Netflix pricing is all over the place. I’m on a discount plan through my ISP which is less than what they sell it for on their website.

it’s just business.

 

[m11rphy]

probably, and Apple should get an x% (x being 1% or something), that way Spotify, Epic and Netflix pay something for the App Store, but not much, as the companies are doing the sign ups, the billing, collecting, etc. It is still fair though if Apple gets a regular cut of the in app purchases. for example, I used to find products on amazon, then buy them direct from the vendor thinking I was doing the vendor a service. One day, I got a stupid vendor that screwed up my ship to address, when I found the error, I called within 15 minutes to change it and they "couldn't" change the order. Now I will use amazon because I have trust in their payment services, same for Apple, people might trust the payment services a whole lot more than company x and prefer to buy through apple. they should have that choice

Do you think when you buy through Amazon they only make 1% or is it more 15-30%?

 

[Amazing Iceman]

Ok, I think you’re arguing with me over someone else’s analogy, but let’s look at yours.

Netflix didn’t violate any agreements, and Apple wasn’t discussing evicting them. Also, Netflix was planning to stop paying rent beyond the $100 everyone else does.

Netflix was saying they’d stop paying rent, and all Apple did was say “you’re welcome to stay, but we’re going to take your sign off the building and use it for someone else”. I still don’t see the problem. Why give Netflix the special privilege of premium advertising over other paying customers?

The incentive to do so was IAPs!

 

[m11rphy]

The incentive to do so was IAPs!

No Netflix stopped using IAPs and Apple said that cool but we will use our premium advertising space on apps that do us IAP and make apple money. What’s wrong with that?

 

[gaximus]

It's like you don't know that MacOS exists. Or do you just believe that it's riddled with malware and fraud? Not to mention the countless scam apps that already exist on the App Store which Apple is slow to remove because they generate a lot of revenue.

Apple already sells devices that allow you to install software from outside of its App Store. This is a solved problem.

You can easily install malware on a Mac that will highjack it and hold it ransom. Now image that possibility with all the iPhone users that believe anything they read on Facebook and install something because some post said to do it.

 

[Analog Kid]

The incentive to do so was IAPs!

I feel like reading comprehension is suffering in this thread…. 😄

Netflix stopped using IAPs, so why give them premium advertising at the expense of a paying customer.

 

[genovelle]

This is a good example of Apple almost going too far.

That message is going to far. Remember Apple spends a lot of money maintaining and promoting their App Store. It includes mentions of companies like Netflix so for them to suddenly cut Apple out and direct customers that are clearly downloading the App because of Apple’s efforts off the platform to do so is nothing cool. They actually created the Apple TV+ after realizing 3rd party video was dangerous to the survival of the platform. They could cut bait and leave them in the dark at any time.

 

[tadasZ]

I dont see anything here. A business manager asked a question about what the company should do. Thats not "apple" doing anything here.

Then they discussed working with Netflix to improve the experience etc.. Again what is the deal here? Apple works with companies that add significant benefit to their products.. is that news?

Finally, Netflix seem to have decided that the churn rate for sign ups via the app were even more of a problem than the 30% cut ( which would drop to a lot lower after 1yr right?).

What am I missing here?

They didn't punish Netflix because Netflix is big, but how many small companies were punished?