Apple - do they care about making computers anymore?

[pcorajr]

FFS, you know what? I'm sick of you whining bunch of wankers. (Might want to add that one to the naughty word filter)

So it's been almost a year since Apple upgraded the iMac. So? It's obviously selling well, or they'd have done it by now. The saying I was always taught is: If it's not broken, don't fix it.

You'd twine if you bought one and Apple upgraded it inline with everything new that is released by other companies every month because yours would be 'old' and now your moaning like a small girl because it's been a while since they upgraded it.

Apple knows whats best. If Apple want to upgrade it, and Apple find the time is right, then guess what? (ZOMFG!!! You might want to sit down) They'll... (Waitttt....) They'll... Upgrade it!!

Apple are a business. They do things to make money. As long as computers make money, of course they'll still make them. At the moment, it seems as if the iPhone is making money. Am I sick of hearing about it? Yes, but thats only because I can't buy one. Do I understand the workings of business? Yes, yes I do. It aint hard to grasp either.

Until they upgrade the iMac, either buy the current iMac like most other people who want/need a new computer, or, **** and wait nice and quiet. Because I tell you something, no one, least of all Steve Jobs cares in the very slightest if you, one person, just feels Apple are not doing enough to tend to your personal needs.

The moral of the story: You can't please all of the people all of the time, just some of the people... Some of the time.

Sorry, You sir are wrong. I invite you in taking that stance with your own company /product and see what happens. In the beginning apple listen to their customer and they stroke gold, why the hell would they not do the same now that they have more market share? You move with the market, and guess what the market now is hinting at.

This is not bitching or crying this is the kind of input company's seek to develop new products and only a bickering fools as you view it otherwise.

 

[curiosa863]

I think everyone misses the point here.

The fact is that computer hardware gets old, fast.

Just because Apple does not offer upgrades as they come out, does not mean that your hardware is still current. Your hardware is old, Apple just isn't giving you the chance to do anything about it.

The arguments being made about "dell>outdated 5 days; apple>outdate 6 months" are rubbish.

Your Apple is outdated after 5 days just like the Dell. You simply don't have the option to do anything about it with Apple.

 

[DarrenSW]

At the risk of being flamed - as this does seem a bit of a divisive subject - Apple, Inc. (see what they did there?) do seem to be concentrating their efforts on anything but their computer hardware at the moment. Where once they waited for the iPod 'halo effect' to make itself felt, they now seem to be content to allow iPod, and not Mac, to be the product that defines the company. From the days where the consumer machines all went snow in colour, through the adverts which showed the iMac and docked iPod side-by-side, to today's Leopard Finder windows' and their iTunes-like view options (Do I really want Cover Flow in the Finder? Actually, do I even want Cover Flow in iTunes? But that's a whole other discussion), it seems iPod calls the shots. I hope iPhone won't make that situation even worse, but given that Leopard was delayed to get iPhone out, it doesn't look too good.

And if my MacBook wasn't easily the best Mac I've ever owned - meaning that even a, let's say, 'distracted' Apple still turns out the finest hardware in the world (albeit not on upgrade cycles we'd like) - then my argument would be more convincing...

 

[smartalic34]

what people also don't understand, is that a computer will ALWAYS become outdated, and will do so QUICKLY. I know the OP said don't mention that whatever is bought today is adequate, but unfortunately, it's the truth. if a machine you buy today is fast enough for you, then BUY IT. there will always be something faster coming out, and you will never actually buy a computer.

is it annoying to have a product updated 2 weeks after purchase? yes. is it annoying a month after? yes, but not as much. how about 2 months? where do you draw the line? just buy today... you'll be happy

 

[Waragainstsleep]

You do have to put the products into perspective with their target markets. The consumer Macs are not strictly intended to run the likes of CS3, FCP, etc (though of course they often do). The Pro lines are intended for these, and in business you upgrade your hardware and software alot less frequently. Its all well and good being an industry leading global media network and renewing all your kit every week, but most businesses cannot afford to do this. Many will skip a version of their staple software packages if they are short of cash, and the software tends to see major upgrades much less frequently than the hardware anyway. So when you have machines that are capable of running your software at an acceptable speed, you won't tend to replace them any more often than you need to.
Also, look at how quickly a new Dell will depreciate compared to a Mac Pro.

As for the current long waits for product refreshes, I have a feeling Apple have got some nice kit coming up this year. But thats just me.

 

[Antares]

Yeah, the only reason I personaly believe the iMac has gone this long without an update is because a major redesign is in the works... Can't say that about the Mac Pro, yet, as what's much better than the current chips? What could they add to make them that "much" better?

When you diversify, you dilute your focus. Apple has been diversifying quite a bit over the last year. That's why the company seems to not be focused as much on their computers as they used to be. Give it time and they will reach an operating equilibrium across all their products.

 

[darkanddivine]

It'll have been said many times but as Apple the business have recently found out - other products can highlight the simplicity of Apple computers. Obviously with the company looking to use OS X in future portable devices this might well sell mac computers possibly as much as any advertising could.

 

[mwp98223]

FFS, you know what? I'm sick of you whining bunch of wankers. (Might want to add that one to the naughty word filter)

So it's been almost a year since Apple upgraded the iMac. So? It's obviously selling well, or they'd have done it by now. The saying I was always taught is: If it's not broken, don't fix it.

You'd twine if you bought one and Apple upgraded it inline with everything new that is released by other companies every month because yours would be 'old' and now your moaning like a small girl because it's been a while since they upgraded it.

Apple knows whats best. If Apple want to upgrade it, and Apple find the time is right, then guess what? (ZOMFG!!! You might want to sit down) They'll... (Waitttt....) They'll... Upgrade it!!

Apple are a business. They do things to make money. As long as computers make money, of course they'll still make them. At the moment, it seems as if the iPhone is making money. Am I sick of hearing about it? Yes, but thats only because I can't buy one. Do I understand the workings of business? Yes, yes I do. It aint hard to grasp either.

Until they upgrade the iMac, either buy the current iMac like most other people who want/need a new computer, or, **** and wait nice and quiet. Because I tell you something, no one, least of all Steve Jobs cares in the very slightest if you, one person, just feels Apple are not doing enough to tend to your personal needs.

The moral of the story: You can't please all of the people all of the time, just some of the people... Some of the time.

I agree. Remember, Apple is a business that must answer to stockholders. That is not to say they shouldn't focus on making the customer happy, but there are balances.

I'm a new Apple owner and switcher. I bought my iMac a month ago, after WWDC and no new equipment. I decided to switch in April, but read all the sites and got myself twisted in knots waiting for the "update." When WWDC gave us nothing, I had my money ready and I was really excited about being an Apple owner and dumping Windows. With some kind words from a few new Mac friends I realized that the current iMac was a good machine and I was willing to pay the current price. The speed bumps and design changes that arel inevitably will not diminish the machine I have and what I can do with it.

That is the key to business. If you have a good product and sell it at a price people are willing to buy, you will be successful. Apple cators to its customers in a way that most companys don't. GREAT service, great products. There is the fringe of people that think serving the customer means giving them "cutting edge" technology at the lowest possible price. Wrong. It means giving customers a good overall product experience at fair price, but bottom line is - bottom line. Make money. I don't begrudge Apple for taking my $1600. I love the product I purchased.

If you don't like the products or think the prices are unfair, simply, don't buy them.

 

[stimpycat]

I agree. Remember, Apple is a business that must answer to stockholders. That is not to say they shouldn't focus on making the customer happy, but there are balances.

It's actually a case of "If your not making your customers happy, you'll not be selling goods, in turn not be making as much money and then you'll be making the stockholders (or shareholders) unhappy.

I'm a new Apple owner and switcher. I bought my iMac a month ago, after WWDC and no new equipment.

Ah so your simply defending your decision to buy an into an old design knowing that something better is around the corner - fair enough.

That is the key to business. If you have a good product and sell it at a price people are willing to buy, you will be successful.
If you don't like the products or think the prices are unfair, simply, don't buy them.

How can you say that is the key to business, then go on to say if people don't like them don't buy them - that is poor business.

In fact since my original post last night - a thread has appeared with the title "I couldn't wait any longer.. went with Vista" now that pretty much sums up the state of things.

The iMac is due an update - even apple see that...

People like you who are happy to spend a large sum on outdated kit are a rare bread - I guarantee you there are more people willing to give up the idea of switching than there are ones willing to buy an old design; and that is the crux.

 

[teflon]

Markleshark your obviously a bit of a nobbiscuit (may want to add that one to the swear filter) but if you follow this and other forums you'd see many potential PC to Mac switchers wanting to switch but not doing so because they don't feel comfortable BUYING 2006 TECHNOLOGY AT 2006 PRICES.

Some of these people give up and go get a Dell box.

People like you who are happy to spend a large sum on outdated kit are a rare bread - I guarantee you there are more people willing to give up the idea of switching than there are ones willing to buy an old design; and that is the crux.

The average consumer does not go on computer forums. The average consumer does not have intel's roadmap and current ram prices memorized in their head. I've known many people who doesn't even know what ram is. Many people don't know what processor is in their computers and don't care. It's fast enough for what they do, so all's well. I can assure you, many people are buying iMacs and are doing so happily, it's not an old design to them, in fact, its still one of the best out there. Most people doesn't know or understand the advantages of SR, which is what you want in the iMac i'm guessing. The fact that you're waiting for a new machine already distinguishes you from a normal user- most users don't know when, or if Apple's gonna update their products, the product right now looks good, so they buy it. 2006 technology doesn't make that much difference to them than 2007 technology.

 

[stimpycat]

The average consumer does not go on computer forums. The average consumer does not have intel's roadmap and current ram prices memorized in their head. I've known many people who doesn't even know what ram is. Many people don't know what processor is in their computers and don't care. It's fast enough for what they do, so all's well. I can assure you, many people are buying iMacs and are doing so happily, it's not an old design to them, in fact, its still one of the best out there. Most people doesn't know or understand the advantages of SR, which is what you want in the iMac i'm guessing. The fact that you're waiting for a new machine already distinguishes you from a normal user- most users don't know when, or if Apple's gonna update their products, the product right now looks good, so they buy it. 2006 technology doesn't make that much difference to them than 2007 technology.

I agree 100% - but the average user will go out and buy a Dell not a Mac as they won't really know what a Mac is and will say "But I use Word".

Those switching are already thinking differently, and thus more likely to check forums etc.

 

[Jestered]

If Apple updated their product lines to include little improvements everytime they became available, these same people would be complaining about how the upgrade sucks. And then they would get pissed if Apple would not replace their 3 week old computer because a new model revision came out. You can't satisfy some people at all.

Just because YOU want something done a certain way does not make it a globally smart decision for Apple as a company.

 

[stimpycat]

If Apple updated their product lines to include little improvements everytime they became available, these same people would be complaining about how the upgrade sucks. And then they would get pissed if Apple would not replace their 3 week old computer because a new model revision came out. You can't satisfy some people at all.

Just because YOU want something done a certain way does not make it a globally smart decision for Apple as a company.

No they wouldn't, they would be happy that they had brought a computer with today's technology at today's prices...

 

[teflon]

Yes the market with poor people.

This from AppleInsider: "While robust Mac sales are likely to drive Apple to yet another solid quarter, it will be discussion of iPhone metrics that dominate the firm's fiscal third quarter conference call next week, according to Piper Jaffray."

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...rics_to_be_focus_of_apple_quarterly_call.html

Yet again Apple's computer business becomes irrelevant.

I really don't think Apple are that committed to the Computer business any more, they're just coasting along on iPhone and iPod sales now.

It's not the market with poor people, its the market with in-between people (prosumers). Average consumers will be satisfied with the current iMac, and pros will get the Mac Pro and upgrade it themselves if the specs aren't good enough for them. Its the prosumers, who actually know the different parts of their computers and wants extra performance over the consumer machines that Apple doesn't satisfy. Now it would be great if Apple does satisfy all markets, but right now, that market isn't big/profitable enough for Apple to venture into. The majority of people still falls into the consumer or pro area. Also, iPhone is a new product, so of course it'd get more attention than Macs right now.

I agree 100% - but the average user will go out and buy a Dell not a Mac as they won't really know what a Mac is and will say "But I use Word".

Those switching are already thinking differently, and thus more likely to check forums etc.

That's partly true, but i also know people who bought Macs just because they look cool/better than their PC counterparts. You just can't find something as good looking as the iMac or mb/mbp in the PC world. I have friends who like mbs because "wow, they're so thin!!" "It matches my iPod!" "It's by Apple!" Which is another good thing that iPod and hopefully iPhone will do for Apple- switch people over to Macs .

 

[Jestered]

No they wouldn't, they would be happy that they had brought a computer with today's technology at today's prices...

If you truly believe that then you are in the extreme minority. And that is exactly why it does not happen that way, because it would piss off many more people than it would satisfy.

If Apple released a new MBP with only a .2GHz bump, because that is all the updates currently available, then 2 weeks later released another update with a new GPU, and then two week later higher res displays, etc... There would be so many people screaming, "why can't they just wait and bundle all the updates so I am not spending $$$ on a machine that is going to be outdated in 2 weeks!". And that is understandable IMHO.

Not to mention that would be disastrous as far as business manufacturing expenses go. How many MBPs do you build if you know weeks later you are going to be changing them?

Why is it that you act as if the current lineups are running G3's or something. These are still very current capable machines.

 

[djbahdow01]

When I became a Mac convert in 2004 I bought a brand new couple days after release of the Top of the line G5 Dual 2.5GHz processor as well as a 20 ACD. In which I bought it while I was in school for graphic design. I waited pretty much since the first rumors here on Macrumors started up about the new G5's. Which if I remember correctly was 6-8 months. So nothing has changed with Apple they want to get the most out of the products they have, and when they upgrade its a decent one now with all the advances in processors and RAM and what not. Before with the G4 and what not the processor jumps weren't high but now I'm sure its noticeable.

Yeah we can base releases now on releases by other companies since we are using the same intel chip as everyone else. Albeit a Xeon processor not Intel's dektop line like everyone else. Therefore we are meant to wait a little longer. You don't see big companies switching out comps every 6 months, especially in IT. They buy for the long haul. Just like I did when getting MY G5, it has lasted me this long and I plan on using it a few more years. Hasn't really bogged down yet. Unlike the PCs I had before, they started to bog down a few moths if not weeks due to file bloating with spyware, adware, viruses, etc.

There is no reason to talk your self out of buying a Mac at any point. Yeah they will probably update right after you buy if you do it now, but you'll still have a machine that is pretty capable for the next 5 years. If you can wait, wait it will be well worth it, if you can't buy now as it will still be worth it.

They are all extremely upgradeable, lots of options. I still have some good space in mine, figure I'm at 3.5 GB RAM and plan on upgrading shortly. Figure now the MacPro supports 32GB and that shouldn't change anytime soon.

 

[stuh84]

My Mac Pro has 4gb of ram, 4 cores and 1750 GB of space.....what am I going to do, its outdated

For gods sake, grow up. If having that sort of power isn't enough for you, what in the hell are you doing?

I'm running full audio sessions....10's of plugins, triggered drums running samples from memory etc.....and it hits about 10% CPU usage.

As people keep saying, you have two options. Want a company that releases updates every 2 to 3 weeks, and then you get annoyed because in 3 months time you are 5 generations behind, or a company that updates when they feel it is necessary to.

If you don't like it, go to Dell, scream at Vista bogging down after a month (and this is from experience, I even liked Vista at first....), and then realise that extra crap you have inside it means nothing, because its running like crap.

 

[stimpycat]

I'm not denying for one second that a Mac Pro won't fulfil my needs - I am sure it's more than enough for my requirements and if I brought now it would see me 5 years plus of enjoyable usage.

What you don't seem to grasp is that most of us humans want the latest, most recent and current design / gimmick / technology - that way we feel like we have something of worth.

So what if it's obsolete in 6 months, you will know your £2000 brought you the best technology could offer at that time therefore being of sound investment.

Buying something that was 'invented' 12 months ago and still costing the same price doesn't bode well for the average consumer, especially when you come to these forums and read that updates are imminent and buyers guides say "don't buy now!" and even the most loyal Apple lovers saying the specs are outdated for the price and time.

So yes, buying now will be fine - but thanks, as much as this money is burning a huge hole in my pocket I'd rather wait with everyone else and see what the new iMac has to offer then the Mac Pro revision and take it from there.

I am secretly hoping for a nice powerful - iMac Pro

 

[Frazzle]

Graphics?
In the PC world, it's mainly games that drive the graphics card race. That has never been a factor in Macs. The current cards in Macs can easily handle 2D stuff and the occasional game. The Mac Pro can do way more and has an upgradable gfx card. There will eventually be upgrades for it - but only when the chips bring real advantages and are manageable in terms of fan noise and heat dissipation.

Speed?
If you look at real market data, the vast majority of PC users will never need the power of even one core of their Core 2 CPU's. Also, most people don't realise that 'major' upgrades to chipsets and memory architecture hardly ever bring more than 5-10% increase in overall speed. There's always some new bottleneck that pops up.

The people that do care about these tiny increments are either 'enthusiasts' or professionals.

For the professionals it's easy: you need the hardware that's available *now* to get your job done. When the hardware can no longer do the job, you'll upgrade to whatever is available. In the meantime, who cares? 'Yesterday's technology' means nothing if it gets your bills paid today. You write it off or sell it and buy something new.

The enthusiasts are a more difficult breed. They clamor for the latest hardware, yet are hard pressed to say what they need it for. These are the people that feel disappointed with their December 2006 MBP @ 2,33 GHz now that the new models are out. And why? In most cases, the call for new hardware is simply a demand for the current hardware at lower prices. Well, Apple will not do that. You buy a whole computer, not a bucket of parts. Typical Apple users don't care about what's inside all that much.

Oh, and the switchers that claim they will just as soon get a Dell box? Well, if you were really ready to step into a whole new OS, change all your bought-and-paid-for software to Mac versions and kiss the virus and spyware hell goodbye - you would have bought a Mac here and now.

Buying a Dell box means you don't care about the OS and its usability right? You don't give a toss about iLife and Final Cut and all that - so why were you even contemplating a switch? To run Windows on your Mac?

Remember - "once you start down the upgrade path, forever will it control your destiny"!

 

[stuh84]

Also strikes of the overclocking wars people have, so they can have 10 million frames per second in Quake 3.

Hell you wanna talk about buying yesterdays technology? CRT's lasted how long? They yester-decade technology and they still won out until TFT's came along, and some people still swear by them.

I don't know about you, but I couldn't give one tinkers cuss for the latest graphics card, how many gigahertz, what type of processor, how much ram.

What I care about, is that it runs what I want, without problems. And my Mac Pro and Macbook Pro do all that without even batting an eyelid.

Think of it like this, Blu Ray and HD-DVD are todays technology, but until I can get every film I ever want on it, I will not be buying into it, there is no point. I play games on a PS2 rather than an XBox 360, PS3 or Wii, because it has the games I want.

Who gives a crap about owning yesterdays technology, if it does everything I want today, tomorrow, and for the forseeable future?

 

[Frazzle]

Worth?

What you don't seem to grasp is that most of us humans want the latest, most recent and current design / gimmick / technology - that way we feel like we have something of worth.

That's pretty sad actually, especially in IT. You feel bad about your hardware every two weeks then?

It's not "most of us humans" either. The majority of consumers proves you wrong. You're an "enthusiast" - and the wet dream of any marketing department that can make you believe that what they offer is indeed the latest gimmick that you really *need*.

So what if it's obsolete in 6 months, you will know your £2000 brought you the best technology could offer at that time therefore being of sound investment.

Anything computer-related is obsolete within a week. Anything you buy now has been invented a year earlier. (The iPhone: 2,5 years!) Computers are not a sound investment. The "best that technology could offer at the time" doesn't mean anything 6 months later.

And be honest: you will not think that way either, you'll start being unhappy with your hardware and thinking about upgrading to the latest gimmick. Not because it will bring any noticeable difference - it's just that you need to feel "you have something of worth again". Your brain will then rationalise it as a sound investment in the latest technology. Any accountant would think otherwise.

 

[suneohair]

If you liked to be riped off, well yeah go ahead, buy today!

 

[Gaius]

Nobody is asking for or even wants an upgrade every two or three weeks. I also think Apple's policy of not dropping prices is a good one. No one wants to buy a machine to have the price drop the next week, but in order to make this policy work Apple needs to deliver updated hardware in a timely manner otherwise you get into a situation like we have now where the Mac Mini and iMac are way overpriced.

This leads to bad feelings all around and is just plain bad for business.

 

[Jestered]

This leads to bad feelings all around and is just plain bad for business.

Apparently Apple knows what is and isn't bad for business.

Apple Mac Sales Up 26.2% in Q2, Outpacing Industry's 7.2%

 

[zero2dash]

I really don't think Apple are that committed to the Computer business any more, they're just coasting along on iPhone and iPod sales now.

I agree wholeheartedly, and I think this shows in how and when they update their computers. I think it's easy to see that their computers take a back seat to their portables at this point.