Apple Dropping Product Design Chief Role, Team to Report to COO Jeff Williams

AbhijitShanbhag · Feb 2, 2023

Let us not deny for a moment, that the designs indeed look trash than ever at Apple.
And lastly if the Mac line up functions better now, clearly we need to put it on the new Silicon and not departure of Jony Ive

petsounds · Feb 2, 2023

hybrid_x said:
Apple previously relied on outside industrial design shops for a lot of product concept and production design. Apple designed the software internally, but the external design was done by outside shops like frogdesign until the early 1990s when Robert Brunner was their head of design, and Jony Ive started and worked his way up. At NeXT, Jobs also outsourced the industrial design. He always valued design, and only moved that capability in house once it was a clear competitive advantage.

The difference between then and now is that Jobs provided a design sensibility at the very top of the food chain that just doesn't exist now. There's no longer a tastemaker that can say "No" to bad ideas, and now there's allegedly no longer a design chief that can do that, either.

sam_dean · Feb 2, 2023

petsounds said:
The difference between then and now is that Jobs provided a design sensibility at the very top of the food chain that just doesn't exist now. There's no longer a tastemaker that can say "No" to bad ideas, and now there's allegedly no longer a design chief that can do that, either.

Example would be Butterfly Keyboard & USB-C only MBP.

svish · Feb 2, 2023

Customers won't feel any impact by this change. But good to know about the changes internally within Apple.

Mr Todhunter · Feb 2, 2023

tubular said:
I know that's not a popular thing to say around here, but for most of his time at Apple once Jobs returned Ive turned out an extraordinary phalanx of designs that were both beautiful *and* functional. I try not to let my frustration about 2016-era laptops outweigh his other accomplishments, which were central to Apple products being as nice as they are.

You are right, I was very frustrated with the 2016-era laptops. So much so that the day after the Macbook pro was released i bought the 2015 pro.
But the main reason I despise Ive is for his arrogance, hybris if you like, that destroyed the user interface of both MacOS and iOS. He was unable to see his own limitations.

richinaus · Feb 2, 2023

Mr Todhunter said:
You are right, I was very frustrated with the 2016-era laptops. So much so that the day after the Macbook pro was released i bought the 2015 pro.
But the main reason I despise Ive is for his arrogance, hybris if you like, that destroyed the user interface of both MacOS and iOS. He was unable to see his own limitations.

Fair enough.
I still think he is the guy who made Apple with Steve. Each to their own opinions.

bl0ckthorne · Feb 2, 2023

svish said:
Customers won't feel any impact by this change. But good to know about the changes internally within Apple.

Ignorance must be bliss for you. The design team at Apple must be dying right now. Being pressured into becoming droids of corporate financial goals vs. making user centered things that improve lives.

richinaus · Feb 3, 2023

bl0ckthorne said:
Ignorance must be bliss for you. The design team at Apple must be dying right now. Being pressured into becoming droids of corporate financial goals vs. making user centered things that improve lives.

If I was in that team I would be thinking it was time to leave…..

Anaxarxes · Feb 3, 2023

IMO, That is just the biggest mistake ever pulled by Apple leadership after Jobs.

Apple's greatest USP was that design is separate from all internal bureaucracy and leading the solutions they create.

Xand&Roby · Feb 3, 2023

sam_dean said:
Example would be Butterfly Keyboard & USB-C only MBP.

Obviously Ive was the chief who deliberate Macs need usb-c only, not the cda, not the engineers.
It takes a lot of wit sometimes in life, and the genius on duty never fails.

sam_dean · Feb 3, 2023

Xand&Roby said:
Obviously Ive was the chief who deliberate Macs need usb-c only, not the cda, not the engineers.
It takes a lot of wit sometimes in life, and the genius on duty never fails.

USB-C's depth allows for a thinner laptop.

Same with the Butterfly Keyboard...

After Ive left we got the 2021 MBP 14"/16" that was thicker even when the chips inside are 5nm instead of 14nm. A thicker laptop allows for better HSF, keyboard, battery, etc. Very few complained it being bigger as the end user wanted a desktop replacement that does not throttle.

If I were in charge of the Macbook Pro I/O port transition from 2015 to 2025 I'd have done this.

Year	MagSafe	SDXC	HDMI	TB3/TB4/USB4	TB2	USB 3.1	Total USB ports
2015	1	1	1	0	2	2	4
2016	1	1	1	1	1	2	4
2017	1	1	1	1	1	2	4
2018	1	1	1	1	1	2	4
2019	1	1	1	2	0	2	4
2020	1	1	1	2	0	2	4
2021	1	1	1	2	0	2	4
2022	1	1	1	3	0	1	4
2023	1	1	1	3	0	1	4
2024	1	1	1	3	0	1	4
2025	1	1	1	4	0	0	4

Last month's MBP 16" would have these I/O

- 1 MagSafe
- 1 SD Express
- 1 HDMI 2.1a
- 3 TB4/USB4 40Gbps (USB-C)
- 1 USB 3.1 10Gbps (USB-A)

As we are in 2023 I think USB 3.1's traditional USB rectangular shape is ready for its last appearance in all 2024 model Macs. Those who bought that 2024 Mac with that single USB 3.1 port will use it until year 2028, 2029, 2030 or by my use case until year 2034.

By the 2030s only people using OpenCore Legacy Patcher (OLCP) would be using USB-A. In the same sense that brand new computers with COM, Parallel and VGA ports are used very rarely by consumer or office work.

Xand&Roby · Feb 3, 2023

sam_dean said:
USB-C's depth allows for a thinner laptop.

Same with the Butterfly Keyboard...

After Ive left we got the 2021 MBP 14"/16" that was thicker even when the chips inside are 5nm instead of 14nm. A thicker laptop allows for better HSF, keyboard, battery, etc. Very few complained it being bigger as the end user wanted a desktop replacement that does not throttle.

If I were in charge of the Macbook Pro I/O port transition from 2015 to 2025 I'd have done this.

Year
MagSafe
SDXC
HDMI
TB3/TB4/USB4
TB2
USB 3.1
Total USB ports
2015
1
1
1
0
2
2
4
2016
1
1
1
1
1
2
4
2017
1
1
1
1
1
2
4
2018
1
1
1
1
1
2
4
2019
1
1
1
2
0
2
4
2020
1
1
1
2
0
2
4
2021
1
1
1
2
0
2
4
2022
1
1
1
3
0
1
4
2023
1
1
1
3
0
1
4
2024
1
1
1
3
0
1
4
2025
1
1
1
4
0
0
4

Last month's MBP 16" would have these I/O

- 1 MagSafe
- 1 SD Express
- 1 HDMI 2.1a
- 3 TB4/USB4 40Gbps (USB-C)
- 1 USB 3.1 10Gbps (USB-A)

As we are in 2023 I think USB 3.1's traditional USB rectangular shape is ready for its last appearance in all 2024 model Macs. Those who bought that 2024 Mac with that single USB 3.1 port will use it until year 2028, 2029, 2030 or by my use case until year 2034.

By the 2030s only people using OpenCore Legacy Patcher (OLCP) would be using USB-A. In the same sense that brand new computers with COM, Parallel and VGA ports are used very rarely by consumer or office work.

You can write whatever you want, but you haven't answered the question: is it Ive who has deliberated the usb-c? I'll tell you: no.

So? Find other fantasies to blame the design team for the nonsense of the management and engineering team.

Boeingfan · Feb 3, 2023

Well that decision has a stench to it.

sam_dean · Feb 3, 2023

Xand&Roby said:
You can write whatever you want, but you haven't answered the question: is it Ive who has deliberated the usb-c? I'll tell you, phenomena: no.

So? Find other fantasies to blame the design team for the nonsense of the management and engineering team.

He has final say.

Xand&Roby · Feb 3, 2023

In which world?! ROTFL.

Not even with Jobs at the helm Ive had the last word on products, and it was Jobs, with whom Ive had a very close relationship.

Imagine with Cook.

tubular · Feb 3, 2023

Mr Todhunter said:
You are right, I was very frustrated with the 2016-era laptops. So much so that the day after the Macbook pro was released i bought the 2015 pro.
But the main reason I despise Ive is for his arrogance, hybris if you like, that destroyed the user interface of both MacOS and iOS. He was unable to see his own limitations.

Yes, and in 2017 I bought the last pre-touchbar 15” Mac Pro model being sold, because i thought it might be five years before they built another laptop worth buying. But it’s also quite clear to me that Ive fixed much more than he broke, and bettered much more than he worsened.

RedWeasel · Feb 3, 2023

fuchsdh said:
Everyone remembers Snow Leopard, no one remembers how bad it was at launch that they shipped 10.6.3 discs to retail. And it only got its reputation for longstanding reliability because Lion got delayed.

And Snow Leopard was a "zero new features" performance improvement release. Hence the name, as an improvement to Leopard.

RedWeasel · Feb 3, 2023

bluespark said:
What Apple needs is a design chief who is co-equal to the product chief.

Yeah I think Jobs and Ive were kind of a "magical" combination, to abuse one of Apple's favorite marketing terms. As were Jobs and Wozniak.

PortoMavericks · Feb 3, 2023

Design by committee.

That's what I'm afraid of.

rpmurray · Feb 3, 2023

Kind of sad to watch the DNA unravel.

Mac Fly (film) · Feb 3, 2023

xdxdaustin said:
I became a product designer because of Johnny Ive.

I really don't think this is a good idea, you need someone with product expertise to oversee operations. Another C-Suite exec focused on general operations isn't going to cut it.

Makes me concerned for where their design strategy may be headed.

If the new HomePod is any indication its headed in the direction of maximising profit to the detriment of both innovation and product quality, with HomePod 2 following up on HomePod 1 four years after its release with noticeably worse audio quality in a blind listening test (it's a speaker):

I7guy · Feb 3, 2023

Mac Fly (film) said:
If the new HomePod is any indication its headed in the direction of maximising profit to the detriment of both innovation and product quality, with HomePod 2 following up on HomePod 1 four years after its release with noticeably worse audio quality in a blind listening test (it's a speaker):

I'll hear it for myself, when I order it. I'll believe a NY Times Review: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/apple-homepod/ over any Youtube review.

Mac Fly (film) · Feb 3, 2023

I7guy said:
I'll hear it for myself, when I order it. I'll believe a NY Times Review: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/apple-homepod/ over any Youtube review.

He's been reviewing tech for about twenty years. Here's not just some random YouTuber.

I7guy · Feb 3, 2023

Mac Fly (film) said:
He's been reviewing tech for about twenty years. Here's not just some random YouTuber.

That may be. But YT in general is a cesspool and imo, reviews can't be trusted.

So I'll buy the product and Apple gives a nice return window, if needed.

rpmurray · Feb 3, 2023

I7guy said:
That may be. But YT in general is a cesspool and imo, reviews can't be trusted.

So I'll buy the product and Apple gives a nice return window, if needed.

Let us know how it turns out.

Apple Dropping Product Design Chief Role, Team to Report to COO Jeff Williams

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