Apple Drops iPhone Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA)

[nomar383]

How many open system gaming consoles have there been? Why haven't they trounced the Xbox, PSP, DS, etc. etc. etc.?

Maybe if a large company were to release an "open system" there would be a prayer. But Joe Blow in his garage probably isn't going to bother.

All things being equal in this situation would mean: one xbox that has closed development and one xbox that has an open development system. I think the "open" platform would eventually pull ahead.

Like someone else mentioned, open system does not equal open source.

 

[firewood]

Apple shouldn't be allowed to put any restrictions whatsoever on their developers. Period.

There are no restrictions on developers who don't use Apple's copyrighted or patented code or API's.

But according to current laws, if you copyright or patent something, you can restrict anyone from using it in certain ways without your permission for a limited time.

.

 

[firewood]

Maybe if a large company were to release an "open system" there would be a prayer.

So tell me why, if it's a multi-billion dollar business, and an OSS system would come out on top according to you, some large company hasn't released a major OSS game system? If it were a guaranteed win, you'd think some big investment bank would have funded a big game hardware company instead of toxic mortgages.

 

[MacOldTimer!]

Not Enough

Finally. Good for developers.

Thank you Apple.

This still leaves Apple to accept or deny apps at their own discretion.

If this is Apples attempt at throwing a bone to the iPhone developers to prevent them from moving to Android I'd call it pathetic.

As a developer (which I'm not) they can spend 100's of hours developing an application that Apple May or May Not Accept.

Why Risk it when they can develop for Android with a completely open option to share what they are developing, get help from the development community and develop ANY application that they want to.

I'm sorry I don't agree with the room here but I see this as a weak attempt to hopefully get rid of a lot of bad press releases lately.

 

[MacOldTimer!]

glad to hear that developers can interact easier now without having to worry about the NDA. This can only improve the types of applications that we are getting nowadays.

It doesn't allow developers to discuss what they are developing. It only allows them to let people know that their app was rejected or allowed.

" Please note that unreleased software and features will remain under NDA until they are released."

 

[Sasha-1]

So tell me why, if it's a multi-billion dollar business, and an OSS system would come out on top according to you, some large company hasn't released a major OSS game system? If it were a guaranteed win, you'd think some big investment bank would have funded a big game hardware company instead of toxic mortgages.

OSS refers to Open Source Systems. Again, you are confused. You can have a closed source and an open system, which is what Windows is. And you can have an Open Source on an Open System which is what Linux is.

Windows as an Open System certainly beat the heck out of Apple despite Apple's 5 year lead on the PC. Why? Because Compaq, HP, IBM, Dell, Fujitsu, Acer, Packard Bell, Sony, Leading Edge, and on and on all contributed to the success of that Open System. It indeed won.

IBMs Micro Channel Architecture lost to EISA because manufactures wanted something open. Most everything in the typical PC you enjoy today is part of an open system. PCI, PCIe, PCIx, etc etc are all Open System. And yes, all things being that tends to win.

Watch and see what happens. The Android platforms represents a close tie in terms of technology to that used in the iPhone. Except it's open. I'll switch to that in a heart-beat as soon as someone writes sync for Outlook / Exchange and SalesForce mobile shows up. Provide that, and I'm there.

Alex Alexzander

 

[digitalbiker]

It doesn't allow developers to discuss what they are developing. It only allows them to let people know that their app was rejected or allowed.

" Please note that unreleased software and features will remain under NDA until they are released."

We don't know that for sure until the final NDA comes out. I think most of us believe that this is only referring to Apple branded unreleased software. This would mean developers couldn't discuss unreleased versions of the iphone OS, firmware updates, Apple custom software,etc.

However I really doubt that Apple is extending the reduced NDA to include a developers unreleased software.

This will be exactly like it is for the mac on OS X. Developers sign an NDA and can't discuss future Apple OS releases or unreleased Apple software. But all developers are free to discuss their own software whether it is released or not.

 

[imcquill]

This will be exactly like it is for the mac on OS X. Developers sign an NDA and can't discuss future Apple OS releases or unreleased Apple software. But all developers are free to discuss their own software whether it is released or not.

This is as I understand it as well. However, if this is the case, is there anything stopping one developer from sharing their source code with another developer? If they have both paid the $99 to be able run compiled code on the phone, can they trade apps?

I'm wondering if Podcaster, for example, can just put their source up online, or perhaps even charge for their source. And then anyone who wants it can get it, hit 'build and run' and then they have the app on their phone.

And if this were possible, it would also mean it would be possible to bypass Apple's 30% cut at the app store (if you've paid the $99).

 

[Lictor]

As a developer (which I'm not) they can spend 100's of hours developing an application that Apple May or May Not Accept.

Well, at least, with the NDA lifted, one can hope to turn the 100s of hours into mere dozens. Because having courses, books, a support community and public APIs will just do that. When you have worked with platforms like J2EE, this is something you learn very early on : the ecosystem is everything. Strip Java of all the Open Source frameworks, the support API, the application servers, and there is not much left... Now, the iPhone platform will start developing a proper ecosystem, and in itself, that is huge.

But yes, something must also be done on the AppStore. And not only with the approval process, but also with the rating system (though a first step has been made by disallowing comments from non-buyers) and the indexing system. Too many applications, and no reliable way to find the good ones...

 

[firewood]

It doesn't allow developers to discuss what they are developing.

What interesting legal theory would allow you to put stuff under NDA to which you don't own the rights?

.

 

[iphonewiz]

Excellent! Now we will get extensive third party tutorials and robust developer commentary!

 

[iSee]

I don't think he's a clueless Android supporter. I think Android holds a lot of promise as an open system. Judging it solely by the first product ever released would be silly.

Why not lose the attitude towards anyone with a thought that strays away from your beloved Apple. Talk about fanboi.

Alex Alexzander

From your response, I assume you didn't read the original post paja was refering to. Also, paja called the poster clueless, but didn't judge the Andriod platform at all. For all we know he thinks it's the greatest thing ever.

Why so defensive?

 

[firewood]

As a developer (which I'm not) they can spend 100's of hours developing an application that Apple May or May Not Accept.

This is not unusual.

Big businesses (Walmart, Target, Sears, Safeway, et.al.) often refuse shelf space to products for any number of reasons. There are whole books on this topic. This has caused businesses betting on that amount of shelf space to go under. Most start-up businesses fail anyway, statistically. There is no guarantee that 100's or even 1000's of hours of development will pay off in any market. What matters is not the risk of failure, but the reward to risk ratio compared to doing something else.

 

[lucasgladding]

Well, at least, with the NDA lifted, one can hope to turn the 100s of hours into mere dozens...

The NDA changes should help somewhat, but there were plenty of Mac-specific resources that taught most of the details of the iPhone SDK already. Even the table view data source and delegate are setup very similar to what has been on the Mac for years. That said, the changes to the iPhone SDK probably foreshadow the changes coming to 10.6 and 10.7.

I am eager to see discussion forums grow to truly useful resources. Something like cocoadev.com for the iPhone would be great.

Kind regards

 

[Stile]

I think it's kind of funny when people talk about "winning". I seriously doubt Android is going to kill the iPhone. But there probably will be more Android phones out there than iPhones. But which one is better is always going to be a matter of opinion. People will like one or the other for different reasons. The person who likes the iPhone over an Android phone will think the iPhone won and the person who likes an Android phone over the iPhone will think Android won. But in the end it's opinion as to which one is better. But if you are talking purely about number of phones, yeah, you're probably right. Anyone can go and make a platform that will run Android, you can't do that with the iPhone's OS.

I currently have an iPhone and a Moto Q before that. My Moto Q was regularly left behind but my iPhone is always with me. But I'm biased towards iPods, and that's just my opinion

 

[Sbrocket]

It doesn't allow developers to discuss what they are developing. It only allows them to let people know that their app was rejected or allowed.

" Please note that unreleased software and features will remain under NDA until they are released."

Apple is going to place property that they don't own rights to under NDA? I think not. What you proposed that they're restricting is legally impossible. You've actually got it completely backwards - developers can discuss what they're developing, but they can't reveal details of AppStore rejections still.

Unreleased software was never under NDA. The problem was the SDK being under NDA, not developer's software. Releasing the source code for iPhone apps prior to this lifting of the NDA would have released details of the iPhone SDK, and therefore wasn't allowed.

Apple can't legally restrict developers from discussing what they were developing at any point whether or not there's an NDA in effect over the SDK. Developers simply couldn't disclose details or source for their applications that would reveal details of the SDK.

In any case, this is all completely off-base - this notice deals with Apple's software (the iPhone OS, the SDK, and such) and being able to discuss released versions of those tools. The sentence that many people are debating over was merely added to make sure that developers with access to beta, pre-release versions of these tools understood that those tools were still under NDA until they were released.

 

[Tulse]

I'm wondering if Podcaster, for example, can just put their source up online, or perhaps even charge for their source. And then anyone who wants it can get it, hit 'build and run' and then they have the app on their phone.

Anyone, as you note, who is an iPhone developer and has paid $99. My guess is that is a pretty limited market.

 

[Adjei]

So how does this stop them from arbitrarily preventing apps from appearing in the store?

Nice bit of backtracking though.

Aren't y'all the same dudes who complain there are too many apps in the store and when they decide to limit what gets in y'all still complain..

 

[gmanrique]

What?

It still prevents developers from discussing unreleased (to the public) iPhone OS software or features. It has nothing to do with Developers' apps, unless of course said app uses a yet to bereleased feature or version of the iPhone OS Software.

It doesn't allow developers to discuss what they are developing. It only allows them to let people know that their app was rejected or allowed.

" Please note that unreleased software and features will remain under NDA until they are released."

 

[Adjei]

ok 2 things. 1 before the agreement... Apps still sucked. So I still doubt we are going to see any really useful applications besides the games. 2nd... Apple didn't listen to us... Or you... Or any customers at all. They are scared of the 1 big threat that comes along with the g1. Compare to the iPhone we all saw and read g1 isn't that exciting. Best part out of the gates is 3.2 megapixel camera, mms, and copy/paste. The one thing everyone has their eye out for on the g1 is a developers platform with little to no rules. No restrictions. Developers can mimic and completly replace basic functions the g1 comes with such as mms, the phone app, gpas, and so on. Apple is creating the illusion that it will lighten up but even before this agreement iPhone apps were still fairly useless. Let's face of the iPhone is good for how it looks/feels and the news/games. Other than that. G1 seems a little more exciting. That's all I am just saying. Don't be fooled.

Can I put headphone in your g1 ?

 

[Adjei]

I don't think he's a clueless Android supporter. I think Android holds a lot of promise as an open system. Judging it solely by the first product ever released would be silly.

Why not lose the attitude towards anyone with a thought that strays away from your beloved Apple. Talk about fanboi.

Alex Alexzander

Didn't you read the crap the dude just wrote, he registered for the forum just to talk about the g1 vs iphone, I mean come on.

 

[Adjei]

Have you even used Windows Mobile? I have both gen iPhones, a BlackBerry 8800, and 8310, and a Moto Q which is based on Windows Mobile but with enough of a tweak to where it operates a lot like a BlackBerrry in that it has no stylus and is a one-hand operation.

Background apps on both the BlackBerry and the Moto Q are not at all a problem. They don't at all cause crashes. They don't kill the battery. The function as normally as multitasking on your Mac or PC. Only Apple has an issue with battery life on their mobile. I had always left JiveTalk, an IM client running on my BlackBerry for days on end with no battery loss. I was absolutely blown away when Apple made the claim to that effect.

A real keyboard is a big deal to a lot of people. And again, the G1 is not the sole Android device. Many will be small, like a BlackBerry Pearl. Some with have the form-factor of the BlackBerry Curve, BlackJack, Moto Q and Palm Treo. Some will no doubt be 100% touch-based. And some will be like the G1 and offer both.

Personally, I think the closed model Apple exhibits is the biggest mistake Apple could make. And I do believe Android will beat the iPhone. Open systems have always pulled ahead of closed systems, all things being equal.

Alex Alexzander

So go buy a G1 for all we care.

 

[Adjei]

OSS refers to Open Source Systems. Again, you are confused. You can have a closed source and an open system, which is what Windows is. And you can have an Open Source on an Open System which is what Linux is.

Windows as an Open System certainly beat the heck out of Apple despite Apple's 5 year lead on the PC. Why? Because Compaq, HP, IBM, Dell, Fujitsu, Acer, Packard Bell, Sony, Leading Edge, and on and on all contributed to the success of that Open System. It indeed won.

IBMs Micro Channel Architecture lost to EISA because manufactures wanted something open. Most everything in the typical PC you enjoy today is part of an open system. PCI, PCIe, PCIx, etc etc are all Open System. And yes, all things being that tends to win.

Watch and see what happens. The Android platforms represents a close tie in terms of technology to that used in the iPhone. Except it's open. I'll switch to that in a heart-beat as soon as someone writes sync for Outlook / Exchange and SalesForce mobile shows up. Provide that, and I'm there.

Alex Alexzander

So what happened to Windows Mobile, isn't it open..

 

[dejo]

A real keyboard is a big deal to a lot of people. And again, the G1 is not the sole Android device. Many will be small, like a BlackBerry Pearl. Some with have the form-factor of the BlackBerry Curve, BlackJack, Moto Q and Palm Treo. Some will no doubt be 100% touch-based. And some will be like the G1 and offer both.

Should be fun trying to write apps with all those variables.

 

[firewood]

The Android platforms represents a close tie in terms of technology to that used in the iPhone.

The iPhone is not selling well due to just its hardware technology.

.