It turns out when you build your brand on privacy, people expect you to take privacy seriously. Who would have guessed?
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Employees Internally Raising Concerns Over CSAM Detection Plans
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
So if you support the Bill of Rights, you support criminals and terrorists? That's exactly the mindset you're expressing here. I sure hope you're not serious.
See, and this is what happens with the "Think of the children!" mindset.
You're blinded by the idea that it's protecting children.
And children *should* be protected.
However, the 4th amendment makes this pretty clear....
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.Apple has no business playing the "overwatchers", checking everyone's photos, violating privacy, on the hopes that they catch someone. If the FBI goes to Apple and says "We have a warrant to check this person's pictures", that's fine. Hand them over. But apple should NOT be proactive in scanning and reporting people's photos. They can certainly be reactive.
And I agree with the other posters who said "Scan them before they're stored in iCloud". That's fine. I can get behind that, because Apple doesn't want to be responsible for storing illegal materials. Meanwhile though, my phone drains battery fast enough without background scans of my photos "for the children".
Your assuming that your definition of "unreasonable" is the same as to what they are doing here.
This is interesting…private parties searching your device are immune to the 4th amendment.
Case file for OneDrive and PhotoDNA
“The Court denies Bohannon's motion. First, the Fourth Amendment does not apply to Microsoft's search, as Microsoft was not acting as a government entity or agent. Even if the Fourth Amendment applied, Bohannon consented to Microsoft's search by agreeing to Microsoft's terms of service.” United States v. Bohannon, Case No. 19-cr-00039-CRB-1, 5-6 (N.D. Cal. Dec. 11, 2020)
Case file for OneDrive and PhotoDNA
“The Court denies Bohannon's motion. First, the Fourth Amendment does not apply to Microsoft's search, as Microsoft was not acting as a government entity or agent. Even if the Fourth Amendment applied, Bohannon consented to Microsoft's search by agreeing to Microsoft's terms of service.” United States v. Bohannon, Case No. 19-cr-00039-CRB-1, 5-6 (N.D. Cal. Dec. 11, 2020)
One of the best possible outcomes would be for people to realize how much privacy they have lost to tech companies who have become maid-servants to government (in a certain sense). This is the start of the rise of fascism.
Apple employees are now joining the choir of individuals raising concerns over Apple's plans to scan iPhone users' photo libraries for CSAM or child sexual abuse material, reportedly speaking out internally about how the technology could be used to scan users' photos for other types of content, according to a report from Reuters.
According to Reuters, an unspecified number of Apple employees have taken to internal Slack channels to raise concerns over CSAM detection. Specifically, employees are concerned that governments could force Apple to use the technology for censorship by finding content other than CSAM. Some employees are worried that Apple is damaging its industry-leading privacy reputation.
Apple employees in roles pertaining to user security are not thought to have been part of the internal protest, according to the report.
Ever since its announcement last week, Apple has been bombarded with criticism over its CSAM detection plans, which are still expected to roll out with iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 this fall. Concerns mainly revolve around how the technology could present a slippery slope for future implementations by oppressive governments and regimes.
Apple has firmly pushed back against the idea that the on-device technology used for detecting CSAM material could be used for any other purpose. In a published FAQ document, the company says it will vehemently refuse any such demand by governments.
An open letter criticizing Apple and calling upon the company to immediately halt it's plan to deploy CSAM detection has gained more than 7,000 signatures at the time of writing. The head of WhatsApp has also weighed into the debate.
Article Link: Apple Employees Internally Raising Concerns Over CSAM Detection Plans
If Apple doing this in iOS 15,you better believe this is coming to macOS as well.
Perhaps this will push people back to using dSLRs and third party photo management software.
Then that’s not hashing, that’s feature detection algorithms (which is more worrying than hashes). I’m fairly certain that with enough modification, an image will become different enough to fool even feature detection.
No. That's a completely false statement. There are many ways of computing a hash that don't amount to a trivial operation on a bit array. The hash algorithm used is one that evaluates the essence of a photo using visual analysis techniques, not a trivial checksum of file content. See the technical discussion on Microsoft's version, Photo DNA, for example.
Seems it from your earlier post you don’t have a problem technology either. You have a problem with what it potentially could be and the problem of scanning your personal non-CSM synced or matched photos. The technology itself you don’t have a problem with it it’s implementation with Apple. Let’s clarify that first
Oh get over yourself. Do you REALLY think that perverts are going to think “oh no Apple are making it hard now, I’d better stop thinking like a dirty scumbag now”. It’s NOT going to alter child abuse 1%. It will just make the scum go somewhere else whilst decent folk have their rights and privacy compromised even more.
DeGoogled?.
Did googled for some abs if the phone is running android from Google you’re being tracked buddy if you say then you’re being tracked.
cylaxOS is what you should use.
If you haven’t been catching up on the specific events there’s nowhere else to go unless you get a dumb feature phone Google Microsoft many others already scanned all photos and I haven’t reported it to anybody else we’re all just finding out now over a decade later.
A human being world review the data not the pictures please when you start making these comments make sure you have them accurate. Seams are getting very emotional over it, and making small false statements.
that said I don’t think you have the right to ask for somebody or to see it so he should be fired because you disagree with the technology. May be a better suggestion would be maybe rollback or take a look at the technology and look at what it does first or how it’s implemented it’s a sound cars it’s a just cars how it’s implemented that’s the issue shouldn’t be asking for some guy that wants to make a positive change but doing it wrong to be fired because you disagree.
Yep cause buying a £50 hard drive and keeping them on there instead is IMPOSSIBLE I tell you it’s impossible. You are presuming that this will make paedophilic scum will stop once they can’t share pics. No they are more likely to go and do it in person. Be careful what you agree to and wish for.
The problem is not what it is looking for now, but the concept of being scanned and where it can/will be expanded. I’m sure you don’t do anything illegal in your home, but probably don’t want to have someone come look through it everyday to check.
As per my latest comment, that’s not a hash algorithm then, that’s feature detection algorithms such as the one you mentioned. That is much worse than simply comparing image hashes, but yes, it is more accurate and harder to spoof. However, it is more open to feature abuse.
I really hope that this is sarcasm to show how easy it is to manipulate positions….
They will just fed ex flash drives.
Regular old fashioned police work, a supportive social agency, a disgusted citizenry, and an engaged judiciary using realistic sentencing are the tools to stop child abuse/trafficking.
It’s really odd that Apple suddenly has become cyber-Chris Hansen….
The ability to scan and the hash list is included in iOS. I don't want that ability on my phone.
Apple said in 2015 that a backdoor for the FBI would be "the software equivalent of cancer". What they are building right now is basically the software equivalent of herpes. Sure it isn't always an active infection, but its always there, lurking in the cells, ready to be activated again. And there's no way to get rid of it.
Can someone explain how this tech works? I find face scanning and photo regensition tech to get it wrong a fair amount of time. Is this going to flag pictures that might be an issue and upload them for someone to look at? People take a lot of nude photos, so is it going to be scanning for nude photos it thinks are young people and sending them for a person to look at? I don't get how it's supposed to work.
You just explained that there is some leeway to the system. If it was a 1:1 match, it would be much better received. But since they have some estimations going on its worrying quite a bit of people. I know one mid 20s married couple that is long distance most of the time and shares some adult images over iMessage that are quite concerned with this.
They already do this on iCloud. So why move it to our devices? What does it gain when we have iCloud enabled to have this scan run?