Apple Employees Internally Raising Concerns Over CSAM Detection Plans

[NightFox]

You clearly missed what my entire point was. When this is implemented, as in- IT IS ACTUALLY IN USE- then it cannot be undone. Stop trying to simplify it. Try to at least understand what someone is saying before you try to reply with a retort.

OK, I wasn't trying to over simplify your point - I understood your point as being that once CSAM scanning was implemented, any government could approach Apple and say "we know you can scan for images of XYZ, tell us who has those images". Please correct me if that isn't what you were saying.

My point was that this is nothing new, any government could already have approached Apple at any time since 2015 and said the same thing because Apple have been able to do this since then. In other words, whether or not Apple do implement CSAM scanning doesn't make any difference to their already existing capacity to do similar for other types of content - so in fact this already cannot be undone. Prior to CSAM, Apple can't decline any government approach based solely on not yet implementing something they have the capability to do.

 

[fahlman]

You don't understand how the technology works, do you?

 

[Frustratedperson]

How about : 'not doing this would've been against the interests of our shareholders'?
I think this is to prevent apps store antitrust measures.

Every customer is an unofficial “share holder” as without customers, the company goes bust. Apple have just lost a shareholder. To add to this, we have just been talking about this at the table having lunch and my eldest (16) piped up “dad, wasn’t Apple the one who were saying that privacy is a human right, if you’re moving to a fold, can I have the new Z flip” 😂😂😂😂😂

 

[nickstz]

If they still release it, we should boycott this by not installing the update!

 

[tridley68]

If the employees don't like it they should find jobs elsewhere.

 

[fahlman]

So from what I understand, Apple takes the image hash and compares it to an image hash database of known ‘blacklisted’ images

Thank you. Someone who researched the technology and understands that Apple can't use it to flag naked photos your wife sent you or d!ck pics from your boyfriend.

 

[Frustratedperson]

If the employees don't like it they should find jobs elsewhere.

They should do and when Apple is so short staffed that they double the price of their gold plated spy machines, you’ll be even happier right?

 

[JBGoode]

If they still release it, we should boycott this by not installing the update!

Yeah that’ll show ‘em!

LMAO. Apple will be fine, the iPhone 13 will be huge,their stock will continue to climb, these threads will die, and people will move on to the next thing to be outraged about (Probably the green tint on their new iPhone).

 

[Frustratedperson]

Thank you. Someone who researched the technology and understands that Apple can't use it to flag naked photos your wife sent you or d!ck pics from your boyfriend.

Thanks you. Somebody who hasn’t seen outside of the box, per usual. This isn’t solely about being able to check hash pics. It’s what it opened the door to afterwards. At least try and use your brain before you type.

 

[The Game 161]

If they still release it, we should boycott this by not installing the update!

Which people won’t and I think it’s likely Apple have already being doing this in the background for years.

 

[rme]

Every customer is an unofficial “share holder” as without customers, the company goes bust. Apple have just lost a shareholder. To add to this, we have just been talking about this at the table having lunch and my eldest (16) piped up “dad, wasn’t Apple the one who were saying that privacy is a human right, if you’re moving to a fold, can I have the new Z flip” 😂😂😂😂😂

I don't think these measures will have a major impact on their turnover. That said, I won't be buying any more Apple products either. ;-)

 

[Frustratedperson]

Yeah that’ll show ‘em!

LMAO. Apple will be fine, the iPhone 13 will be huge,their stock will continue to climb, these threads will die, and people will move on to the next thing to be outraged about.

Not me. Samsung Galaxy Fold 3 incoming. AMD 5950x, RTX 3090 custom liquid cooled PC incoming.

 

[Frustratedperson]

I don't think these measures will have a major impact on their turnover. That said, I won't be buying any more Apple products either. ;-)

In the short term maybe not but even before this, companies are getting fed up with the walled garden (Epic, Spotify), I know lots of friends/family that have moved to Android and I stupidly was trying to get them back to Apple for iMessage and stuff like that. Short term loss (not much), long term loss (very likely imo)

 

[ifxf]

how much space will this hash database consume on my phone?

 

[MowgliWolf]

We’ll all said I think this hubbub over the matter is a really good thing, it’ll most likely force the people working on the feature and Apple as a company to really scrutinise it and bring out a bit more transparency on the matter.
I’m not about to go grab my spare pitchfork or anything but there’s nothing like a good, targeted bit of questioning and scrutiny to get someone to double check what they think is a great idea

 

[rme]

Which people won’t and I think it’s likely Apple have already being doing this in the background for years.

Why did they tell us now then?

 

[MozMan68]

There is nearly 200 responses to this one story alone…almost 2,000 responses to the other few threads about this on MacRumors.

I don-t think 800 messages from Apple employees is really that many. And don’t assume just because people work at Apple somehow makes them smart, lawyers or either.

If you are worried about an Apple employee looking at as low-res version of your photos, you are either one of two people:

1) A pedophile and I hope you rot in jail for the rest of your life, or

2) You are the “luckiest” person on this planet as there is only a one in one trillion chance per year of a selection of innocent photos (yes, more than one) perfectly matching CASM database images to even flag an account for review.

 

[threesixty360]

Not me. Samsung Galaxy Fold 3 incoming. AMD 5950x, RTX 3090 custom liquid cooled PC incoming.

Out of interest. Why do you think google is any better here?
You also know that if apple do this successfully then all the other providers of devices will follow suit.
I think your fighting a losing battle here really.

And also, just from my point of view. The technology available that is allowing these disgusting people to keep doing what they are doing has meant the problem is even worse than it was previously. I'd rather my freedom be curtailed somewhat to prevent this. Its not that I dont see possible problems with overreach, rather I can handle that if it starts to close the web on these disgusting people. It feels worth it I suppose.

 

[MozMan68]

This is nonsense. Why did they tell us now then?

They have been scanning your images on device in one form or another for 5 years now….this is just adding a new datapoint to scan. The thought that governments would suddenly decide to add their own data sets to this tech when Apple (and others) have already had this capability for years is ridiculous. Why now and not when Apple added the ability to detect faces, detect dogs and cats, detect what flowers are in the picture, detect where you are in some cases??

They are letting you know most likely due to the consequences of having this material on your phone as well as to assure folks that they are not scanning every picture you have unlike other companies that do just that in the cloud. It is, in fact, a more secure and private way to address the issue When hard coded onto the device.

 

[scottct1]

Since Apple does not control the database, I believe it would be very easy for bad actors to add stuff to the database. Since Apple only sees a hash in the database they would never know what was added to it.

This is a very dangerous thing.

 

[Hastings101]

It scans your whole library and they report you if anything is flagged as suspicious? I thought this was just for filtering graphic content out of iMessages. How is that not a huge violation of privacy? If I have an image of some creepy naked cherub angel a religious relative sent me years ago am I going to be reported to the FBI? What about all those kids in bath tubs and naked baby pictures that new moms spam us with in group messages?

I know I’m 100% deleting everything on iCloud and will be getting off of Apple’s platform if that’s what this means and I didn’t misunderstand. I’m not one for slippery slope arguments so I’m not going to make one, though I have the feeling this is about to be tech that China will love, but this just screams big brother.
—
Apparently at least it checks against known images and not just guessing, but I still don’t like the idea of being essentially policed by my phone. Thanks for all who pointed that out, but it’s still sketchy and still sounds like China.

 

[Frustratedperson]

Out of interest. Why do you think google is any better here?
You also know that if apple do this successfully then all the other providers of devices will follow suit.
I think your fighting a losing battle here really.

And also, just from my point of view. The technology available that is allowing these disgusting people to keep doing what they are doing has meant the problem is even worse than it was previously. I'd rather my freedom be curtailed somewhat to prevent this. Its not that I dont see possible problems with overreach, rather I can handle that if it starts to close the web on these disgusting people. It feels worth it I suppose.

I don’t feel Google is any better here. I think Apple is no better now. I trusted Apple and therefore had all my thousands of photos of my kids childhood, private photos of holidays etc on iCloud. I only moved from Android/PC years and years ago as i felt Apple were more secure. Now they are no different. I’d rather save a fortune in 5 people worth of tech every year, can store my documents and pics offline so NOBODY can acces them unless I decide so and have no compromise when I need to do really heavy colourist work (even the Mac Pro is slow compared to a really decent PC).

 

[The Game 161]

Why did they tell us now then?

Who knows to open up a bigger search going forward. I think it’s naive to think all companies haven’t been doing this for years. Privacy on anything in the internet is really non existent no matter what phone it is

 

[Frustratedperson]

Since Apple does not control the database, I believe it would be very easy for bad actors to add stuff to the database. Since Apple only sees a hash in the database they would never know what was added to it.

This is a very dangerous thing.

Get back in that box you’ve just thought out of. Finally somebody that thinks. Lol

 

[MozMan68]

Since Apple does not control the database, I believe it would be very easy for bad actors to add stuff to the database. Since Apple only sees a hash in the database they would never know what was added to it.

This is a very dangerous thing.

You need to educate yourself on how the database is used, where the info comes from and who uses it today.

If what you say is an issue, there would be a lot of innocent people being arrested. This is not Apple suddenly deciding to check images against the database…they are one of the latecomers.