Apple Employees Internally Raising Concerns Over CSAM Detection Plans

Skiefire said:
Yep, how long until there is a UK court order to add copyrighted content to the database?
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Yes, and what is legal copyright use inside one country, is not necessarily legal copyright use in another country. Funny?

Tim Apple may not have discovered, that very few have the financial means to by a "burner-phone" before overseas travel and bricking it completely after

Who's to decide? Apple? Bureaucratic brick-head (I nearly write something very similar)? Or worse a politician?
adib said:
It is abusive, all right.. the question is, who was on the receiving end of the abuse? 🙄
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You are, if you use any iPhone, iPad or Apple Mac with M1 or later chip - at the latest after updating to iOS 15 or equivalent - and if you enter US-jurisdiction.

It will be interesting to see, what will happen in Europe. The approach directly violates EU-law regarding GDPR and citizens right to privacy. These laws have been thoroughly tested and upheld in and by courts of every level.

The implications will also be, that ALL data storage companies, locating data inside the US (Apple use third party cloud companies), or who are owned by US companies (subject to US law), will in effect become off-limits for storing EU citizen and company data. Until now, there has been a recent "re-agreement" on certain terms, but that seems invalid and void by Apples approach of scanning directly on a user device. That is illegal, without informed consent (clear definition exists and approved by courts) or LOCAL court orders. US courts have no say inside EU. They may not have that insight - initially - in all cases, but most wise up, before it becomes "international level dispute".

iOS15 is in effect a violation of current EU low, if it by any chance is shown effectively used inside EU (accidentally or not). What will happen if the iPhone is scanned while an EU citizen visits a US consulate or embassy inn - for Example Brussels or Paris - is not completely clear (this moment), but from now on such visits will be inadvisable, if carrying any Apple gear.

The world just got far more "interesting" (variation on old Chinese curse).

Regards
 
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I said it before and I'll say it again: resistance is (relatively) futile.

Did y'all miss the US events from Jan 2016 to Jan 2021?

We've already been living in a Black Mirror episode.

The only way to not have people looking at your stuff is to be offline.

All those silly willies that think quitting Apple for Samsung, Google, or Microsoft solves this will be swiftly disappointed once they find out everyone is doing the same thing.

Apple's stance on privacy was a last hope.

Now we see there never was any, just more of Apple's kickass marketing machine.

Yes, raise hell about this, but don't expect much to change.

So for now I'll eat, drink and be merry at the sweet sync between devices, for tomorrow we die... 'cause of tripping 'billies. ;)
 
I don’t get the outrage. Apple is scanning known hash values. That means they already have the photo they are scanning for, they are only looking for others who have it. They are also only scanning iCloud photos. So if you’re concerned your photo library has something in it that could be flagged, just disable iCloud photos.
 
Krizoitz said:
Nice paranoid fantasy.
In reality they have on multiple occasions refused requests by the FBI and other agencies to do things like that and taken a lot of heat for it. But sure, Apple has been secretly doing the governments bidding this whole time, and decided to publicly announce this particular feature because?
If Apple wanted to secretly spy on people THEY WOULDNT HAVE ANNOUNCED IT.
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Yep, double bluff doesn’t exist.
 
CJPerilous said:
I don’t get the outrage. Apple is scanning known hash values. That means they already have the photo they are scanning for, they are only looking for others who have it. They are also only scanning iCloud photos. So if you’re concerned your photo library has something in it that could be flagged, just disable iCloud photos.
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The outrage is simple.

Neither the reason nor the technical mechanisms justify Apple looking at my data.

In other words:

It doesn't matter why they're doing it.

It doesn't matter how they're doing it.

What matters is that they're doing it.

We were under the illusion that our digital devices, and online storage, were safety deposit boxes where only we have the key and get to look inside the box.

We were (and always have been) wrong.
 
haruhiko said:
“We will refuse any such demands.… except when it’s made into a law.” [insert whatever country name you hate here] will definitely force Apple to do so or Apple may lose access to that market.
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And Apple will listen to Macrumor's comments and pull out of those market. /s.
 
Expos of 1969 said:
I agree with your comments. But in other threads you are such a cheerleader for spending lots of cash on the new iPhones etc. How do you reconcile your double personalities?
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What's to reconcile? I don't see how his threads/thoughts are mutually incompatible?
 
TheYayAreaLiving said:
If you don't see a problem with this technology. Apple is definitely playing you. Pretty sure you don't want Apple to be looking/scanning/analyzing/identifying your wife's pictures. This CSAM stuff needs to be shut down. Apple needs to respect our privacy period. Apple needs to figure out another way if they are really interested in catching pedophiles... God knows for what reason.

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Yep, I guess it was self-validation as I mentioned here earlier, lol...
TheYayAreaLiving said:
Thank you for this article MacRumors! Very well written and analyzed.

Let's GO!!! This has been a hard year when it comes down to leaks. Next following month will be very exciting and anticipating. Fasten your seatbelts and save up your $$$ as much as you can. This is going to be an expensive year.

I will be ordering a new Apple Watch, New iPhone Pro Max, MacBook Pro 16” model. Of course, all maxed out models.

Apple! My hard-earned taxed American dollars along with an Apple Card is ready to take the hit!! Please, take my money from me, Apple.

Update: Some people really took it the wrong way. I was just trying to tell everyone I’ve been saving since last year to upgrade all my Apple devices this Fall. I decided to add a different picture to motivate ya’ll and get ya’ll excite to upgrade with me. Get y’all wallets ready 🤪

View attachment 1818073View attachment 1818074
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derekamoss said:
Need self-validation much, because there really isn't any need to flaunt like this otherwise.
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citysnaps said:
Who here is voting with their wallet? Keyboard yada yada-ing will do nothing.

Anybody stepping up?
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Let the users get a chance first. This is fairly recent news - barely more than a week old - and I do not expect all existing users to have had plans for buying a new iPhone next week.

The real effect will start to show on iPhone 13 and iPhone 14 sales, where the effects of MCAS will be widely known.

But I'm stepping up. I do not plan on replacing existing Apple gear (fairly nice number of machines and devices for personal use), when times come. Until then prevent measures (since I already own recent Windows machinery and Android smartphones).
 
Darth Tulhu said:
The outrage is simple.

Neither the reason nor the technical mechanisms justify Apple looking at my data.

In other words:

It doesn't matter why they're doing it.

It doesn't matter how they're doing it.

What matters is that they're doing it.

We were under the illusion that our digital devices, and online storage, were safety deposit boxes where only we have the key and get to look inside the box.

We were (and always have been) wrong.
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Then why are they doing it?
 
Robert.Walter said:
I imagine the Mac will be subject to scanning too. If mission creep has any meaning, Apple will sooner than later be pressed to scan non iCloud loaded photos.

i will note that from personal experience, in past year’s iOS updates iCloud Photos was mysteriously activated. Even with PB5, I noticed that long deselected iCloud alias email addresses had been switched on on each of my devices.

I have nothing that an Apple scan will find, but what concerns me greatly is how this tech will be abused and expanded.

Apple crossed its own red line.

No assurances they give anymore can have any credibility.
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I dont log in with my icloud on my mac, i always stay signed out unless I'm downloading something
 
Expos of 1969 said:
Who told Apple it was Apple's job and mandate to catch pedophiles and if so, when?
If there is an official written order from some body I would appreciate it being posted.
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That's a good question. I'm not sure why Apple is doing this as I'm unaware of consumer demand for this feature and there doesn't appear to be a way for Apple to monetise this unless they are plans to charge governments or other agencies for this surveillance (in which case they'll need to be able to monitor more than just images of children – such as copyrighted material or terrorism information).

This won't stop paedophilia and I doubt it will capture many paedophiles (just the ones that don't realise what Apple is doing). So unless Apple have plans to imply that Android users are paedophiles in some elaborate marketing campaign, I don't see what the benefit to Apple is.
 
Xenden said:
I really hope apple reversed course on the CSAM stuff. No one wants child porn, but it’s easy to start with a universally reviled topic, then move on to topics that are controversial but not illegal.
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And from broadly controversial on to topics on which some ideas, theses, and proposals are simply disliked by a minority.
 
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