Apple Engineers Reportedly Pessimistic About Apple's Living Room Hardware Strategy

[haruhiko]

Apple made me switch to Netgear Orbi and then Linksys Velop after they discontinued the AirPort routers.
They also made me finally switch to a proper soundbar 5.1 system after they discontinued to the HomePods.
I’d say they brought it to themselves.

 

[Broadside]

the strategy is muddled whether or not some engineers at Apple feel the same way. It lacks cohesion -- even the software design of Apple TV+ within Apple TV is unintuitive and confusing.

 

[cmaier]

Apple made me switch to Netgear Orbi and then Linksys Velop after they discontinued the AirPort routers.
They also made me finally switch to a proper soundbar 5.1 system after they discontinued to the HomePods.
I’d say they brought it to themselves.

No, Apple didn’t make you do any of that.

I know, because I still have an AirPort Extreme running fine in my garage. Despite my close proximity to Apple’s headquarters, the Apple goon squad never showed up at my door to point a gun to my head and force me to rip it out and replace it with Netgear or Linksys gear.

 

[haruhiko]

No, Apple didn’t make you do any of that.

I know, because I still have an AirPort Extreme running fine in my garage. Despite my close proximity to Apple’s headquarters, the Apple goon squad never showed up at my door to point a gun to my head and force me to rip it out and replace it with Netgear or Linksys gear.

I will not invest in products / platforms that have no future. That’s the reason why I switched. The software support is going to be minimal and there is guaranteed no future products in the pipeline. So why don’t I switch to the other more viable platforms if Apple clearly gives us this signal?

 

[JOLoughlin]

I don’t think Apple should race to the bottom in competing with cheaper HDMI sticks. That’s not the category the Apple TV is in. It’s like arguing the Xbox or PlayStation should do so too. Apple TV needs to just offer more differentiating value that justifies its target of being more than a stick but less than a high end game console. So far Arcade on tvOS and the tvOS app ecosystem is mixed I would say. But maybe they’re happy with it. Success doesn’t always mean quantity of units sold but how much the user base engages with the product.

 

[cmaier]

I will not invest in products / platforms that have no future. That’s the reason why I switched. The software support is going to be minimal and there is guaranteed no future products in the pipeline. So why don’t I switch to the other more viable platforms if Apple clearly gives us this signal?

Because you didn’t have to invest in anything. You already had the hardware. There was no need to replace it.

 

[robbysibrahim]

2 words

AppleTV Soundbar

2 more words:

Buy Sonos

 

[NotSafeForWork]

No, Apple didn’t make you do any of that.

I know, because I still have an AirPort Extreme running fine in my garage. Despite my close proximity to Apple’s headquarters, the Apple goon squad never showed up at my door to point a gun to my head and force me to rip it out and replace it with Netgear or Linksys gear.

Exactly. I have 4 of them and get 600Mbps around a large house. I buy them off eBay for $40.

 

[George Dawes]

Isn't Eddie Cue in charge of this ?

No surprises there then....

 

[djlythium]

What about an Apple Home+: 70" OLED 6K TV with tvOS built in (of course), incredible HomePod-like surround sound tech built in and around the whole tv frame, and a wifi-mesh system (with time capsule!, w/ user-upgradable SSD) w/ two mesh satellites included!
.
.
.
.
...And all for $3K!

 

[Abazigal]

I agree with the engineers.

And also, since I have TV+ as an app on my LG TV, there is no benefit in having a separate box with a separate remote, that I have to enable through a different HDMI port using my TV’s remote! It’s old fashioned.
Instead Apple’s content is just accessible as an app, the same way Disney, Prime and Netflix is.

In order to make AppleTV a device that matters today, they have to fix their gaming strategy.
Fix Apple Arcade.
Buy gaming studios and make first party AAA content. Deliver it with a decent gaming controller. Go all the way, or kill AppleTV as a hardware box. Fix the iPhone icon interface and look at PS5/Xbox for cues.

We don’t need a fancy A14 or M1X chip for watching movies. They just play fine as of today. It’ll just make the user interface a bit more snappy. Another reason why the AppleTV has hit a roof. Games do require a fancy SoC so that’ll bring a reason to truly evolve the device.

While they’re at it, they should then rebrand it to position the device more as a broad gaming/media center. AppleTV sounds like ambitions from early 2000’s.

The problem with AAA content is that they are not going to play well on an iPhone. The way the Apple ecosystem is set up right now, the iphone is the star and everything else is built to add value to the Apple ecosystem. That’s why you see Apple Arcade being filled with largely mobile ports that are designed to appeal to smartphone users.

I suppose with enough resources sunk in, the Apple TV could in theory be a worthy contender to the PS5 (the M1 chip is likely comparably to whatever processor powers the PS5), but I don’t think Apple feels it’s worth their while.

 

[donguevas]

Exactly. I have 4 of them and get 600Mbps around a large house. I buy them off eBay for $40.

They are fine if you do not want any granular control of what is going on on your network or not any newer network standards. They were literally plug and play network appliances.

I worked in that department for two years and they were pretty much niche devices that were really bog standard routers and the "extremes" just had 5400 rpm drives in them. They never really changed since they were introduced in the early 2000s.

The problem we always had was people would call Apple when they would not connect with whatever one off product that had wifi that would not connect with them.

Times have changed, Apple realized that, looked at them, and said, naahh, we do not need the headache of troubleshooting your LG TV and your Samsung Wifi fridge.

 

[haruhiko]

I don’t think Apple should race to the bottom in competing with cheaper HDMI sticks. That’s not the category the Apple TV is in. It’s like arguing the Xbox or PlayStation should do so too. Apple TV needs to just offer more differentiating value that justifies its target of being more than a stick but less than a high end game console. So far Arcade on tvOS and the tvOS app ecosystem is mixed I would say. But maybe they’re happy with it. Success doesn’t always mean quantity of units sold but how much the user base engages with the product.

Apple’s gaming offering on the Apple TV can never compete with PS5 (just check out Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart on the PS5 with all the 4K 120Hz Ray Tracing stuff with great gameplay) or even the Switch on the TV - especially at this price. Apple TV 4K is good, the UI is smooth, there are a lot of apps… but the gap is getting closer by new TVs - I got the new LG C1 OLED this year and I can just press a button on the TV remote to launch Netflix, Disney+, etc. and these apps all natively support 4K, Dolby Vision etc. Not to mention it seamlessly connects with my soundbar system which also has AirPlay 2.

 

[dbwie]

I LOVE my Apple TV 4K with the much improved remote. About 6-7 years ago, I had a complicated home entertainment system, with a cable box, an Apple TV, a DVD player, HD homerun device with a TV antenna attached, a Marantz A/V receiver, 5.1 speakers, and a Logitech Harmony universal remote that I programmed to manage it all. Now, I just have the Apple TV paired with two HomePods. I am a full time streamer, ditched my DVDs, and with Apple Music and the HomePods I am quite happy with the audio. Given that I use the Apple TV all the time when I want to do anything with my television or with music, I want a good performing streamer. When I go to the Roku TV in my bedroom, it seems slow to load video in comparison. So, while the Apple TV is pricey, it has value for me. It might be my second favorite Apple product after the AirPods Pro.

 

[cmaier]

I LOVE my Apple TV 4K with the much improved remote. About 6-7 years ago, I had a complicated home entertainment system, with a cable box, an Apple TV, a DVD player, HD homerun device with a TV antenna attached, a Marantz A/V receiver, 5.1 speakers, and a Logitech Harmony universal remote that I programmed to manage it all. Now, I just have the Apple TV paired with two HomePods. I am a full time streamer, ditched my DVDs, and with Apple Music and the HomePods I am quite happy with the audio. Given that I use the Apple TV all the time when I want to do anything with my television or with music, I want a good performing streamer. When I go to the Roku TV in my bedroom, it seems slow to load video in comparison. So, while the Apple TV is pricey, it has value for me. It might be my second favorite Apple product after the AirPods Pro.

Yep. For any complicated system - anything using an A/V receiver for HDMI switching, a universal remote, multiple displays (e.g. a projector and a OLED screen), etc. - an external box like Apple TV is great.

 

[donguevas]

Apple’s gaming offering on the Apple TV can never compete with PS5 (just check out Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart on the PS5 with all the 4K 120Hz Ray Tracing stuff with great gameplay) or even the Switch on the TV - especially at this price. Apple TV 4K is good, the UI is smooth, there are a lot of apps… but the gap is getting closer by new TVs - I got the new LG C1 OLED this year and I can just press a button on the TV remote to launch Netflix, Disney+, etc. and these apps all natively support 4K, Dolby Vision etc. Not to mention it seamlessly connects with my soundbar sdfsdfsystem which also has AirPlay 2.

Until they do not, I love LG TVs, but they drop support for everything after a few years. On 4 of the 3 year old tvs i have the wifi went out because of crimped cables, and I called LG and they were like "out of warranty" and I had to take them off the walls and uncrimp the cables.

Web os is awesome, but when HP **** the bed they all went to Apple to develop. I like. the OS on my TV but the hardware cannot compete with the Apple Tv.

 

[nsayer]

No, Apple didn’t make you do any of that.

I know, because I still have an AirPort Extreme running fine in my garage. Despite my close proximity to Apple’s headquarters, the Apple goon squad never showed up at my door to point a gun to my head and force me to rip it out and replace it with Netgear or Linksys gear.

It's a really, really bad idea to depend on an unsupported product to perform a network security function.

 

[sidewinder3000]

It’s disappointing because Apple had the lead on amazon and roku and just let them pass. I was hopeful you’d see an applet come with homepod built in.

Apple also had the lead in smartphones, and digital music, and… the list goes on and on. They love to break new ground but don’t have the stuff to grow and expand those initial market share leads.

 

[sidewinder3000]

If that doesn't go well, Gurman suggests "it might be time for Apple to consider putting the Apple TV on the same shelf as other living room products like the iPod HiFi and high-end HomePod."

Gurman knows not of what he speaks. This is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard a reporter say about Apple. Apple TV is hardly in the same category as either of those products. It has tens of millions of users and is the main way that people interface with Apple TV+, their new TV service that continues to grow in status and content. They need to fix it, for sure. But if that fails, they need to try again and til they do. 86ing is not an option.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Isn't Eddie Cue in charge of this ?

No surprises there then....

Eddie "Who"?

(heads off to a Warriors game...)

 

[dbwie]

Apple also had the lead in smartphones, and digital music, and… the list goes on and on. They love to break new ground but don’t have the stuff to grow and expand those initial market share leads.

They lead in profits in many of the categories they do not lead in marketshare. They will let other companies race to the bottom.

Apple has shown that people will pay for quality, EXCEPT when it comes to the living room. Lots of people will pay $1,500 or more for a new Mac, and will scoff at anything over $500 for a television, and yet they probably spend way more time looking at the television screen vs. the computer screen. It is interesting and I'm sure they are trying to figure out why the living room is a different challenge than their other product lines.

 

[turbineseaplane]

What about an Apple Home+: 70" OLED 6K TV with tvOS built in (of course), incredible HomePod-like surround sound tech built in and around the whole tv frame, and a wifi-mesh system (with time capsule!, w/ user-upgradable SSD) w/ two mesh satellites included!
.
.
.
.
...And all for $3K!

lmao!
Just about spit out my beer

I think you mean $13k

 

[Karma*Police]

It’s disappointing because Apple had the lead on amazon and roku and just let them pass. I was hopeful you’d see an applet come with homepod built in.

Disappointing but not surprising considering Eddy Cue is in charge of it.

- Apple was also the undisputed leader in digital music until Spotify overtook them. He wasted $3 billion on Beats to catch up to Spotify and Apple’s still playing catch up.
- Apple was #1 in digital video sales but now they’re an also ran.
- Apple surprised the world with Siri and led in AI until Google and Amazon both leapfrogged them. In fact, Eddy let Siri languish so badly that Tim had to go out and get a new executive to run that team.
- iCloud hasn’t seen any innovation since Steve established the strategy while Amazon & Microsoft have built an empire around cloud services.
- The App store was run so poorly that Phil Schiller was tasked to fix it.

I can’t think of any other executive who has failed so miserably for so many years, yet still has a job. I read somewhere that he had some dirt on Tim which I dismissed at the time, but now seems very plausible… seems very likely, in fact.

 

[avgapple]

I ended up purchasing an Apple TV recently because of the airplay screen streaming functionality.

 

[turbineseaplane]

They lead in profits in many of the categories they do not lead in marketshare. They will let other companies race to the bottom.

Apple has shown that people will pay for quality, EXCEPT when it comes to the living room. Most of their home audio products, HiFi, HomePod, (and possibly AirPods Max) have not worked well. It is interesting and I'm sure they are trying to figure out why the living room is a different challenge than their other product lines. The one audio product they for sure got right are the AirPods/AirPods Pro.

I honestly don't believe it's a cost thing overall, but just mostly incomplete offerings.
The living room is a shared space, with a variety of roles usually.

Complete and diverse solutions are desirable.

Things that are offered in living room tech need to be versatile, expandable, long lived, well supported, compatible with older tech in places too....

If Apple are going to tackle living room solutions with their normal locked down "our way or the highway" approach, they have to offer enough things to "do it all" - which they really haven't done yet.

I actually would love to see them do a "HomeBar" speaker that has ATV guts in it and you just bring your TV and have it wirelessly sync a few HomePod 2's as rear surrounds --- that would be a good start for them. The "HomeBar" could have a wide angle (and even 2x) FaceTime camera in it also.

It could be very compelling as a wonderful "do everything" TV and sound solution.