Apple Engineers Reportedly Pessimistic About Apple's Living Room Hardware Strategy

[FrozenDarkness]

?
Have you not used any Google, HBO or Amazon apps?

"Optimized for Apple TV" is not how I would describe their offerings - at. all.

That's all I use. The youtube/youtube tv apps on appletv is pretty much the same on the apple offerings. HBO, not sure what the problem is.

The only app that if ound annoying recently was peacock. But I find anything made by comcast/nbc annoying in general.

 

[dbwie]

I own a LG with built in apps, a googletv with all the same apps, and i always go back to appletv.

appletv, to me, is the epitome of me as a customer paying for something that just works. It doesn't crash on me. All the apps are optimized for it. It's great.

Yes! The premium for "it just works" does not seem insurmountable if one uses an Apple TV and then compares it to other streaming products, but most people won't buy an AppleTV at its current price to try it out. That's why I give my old Apple TVs to family and friends when I get a newer one. I got one Apple TV as a promotion with a new streaming service, maybe Apple should try deals like that again?

 

[turbineseaplane]

That's all I use. The youtube/youtube tv apps on appletv is pretty much the same on the apple offerings. HBO, not sure what the problem is.

The only app that if ound annoying recently was peacock. But I find anything made by comcast/nbc annoying in general.

Glad you're happy!

Go check out YouTubeTV forums on reddit and you'll find loads of complaints about the app experience on Apple TV in particular.

That particular app, as one example since I use it a lot, actually works better still with the Siri Remote 1.
Nothing about it is "optimized for Apple TV" (referencing your exact quote)

 

[Zaft]

There really isn't a benefit to apple tv over any competitors

Especially since my roku tv now has AirPlay 2.

 

[DesertNomad]

I bought an Apple TV 4K box in order to port our EarthDesk software from the Mac to the TV as it seemed like a good platform for the software. As far as I know, Roku and others do not offer the ability to develop or run 3rd party apps on them - and by apps, I mean compiled apps. I'd like to see Apple keep it going as I think the box works well for the things most non-developers use it for too... YouTube, MLB.tv, etc.

 

[dbwie]

?
Have you not used any Google, HBO or Amazon apps?

"Optimized for Apple TV" is not how I would describe their offerings - at. all.

I'm not sure to what extent I would blame Apple for that, the AppleTV software has been around for a while. Apple is trying to address the app interface differences by linking all the apps to their Apple TV+ app, so people can find new content from other apps in the Apple TV+ app. That discovery process worked well for a me a couple of times, but still clunky. And I doubt that all of the streaming platforms will cooperate with that, as they want to keep control of their users eyeballs. LOL

 

[FrozenDarkness]

Glad you're happy!

Go check out YouTubeTV forums on reddit and you'll find loads of complaints about the app experience on Apple TV in particular.

That particular app, as one example since I use it a lot, actually works better still with the Siri Remote 1.
Nothing about it is "optimized for Apple TV" (referencing your exact quote)

"optimized" to me just means doesn't crash. it works exactly the same as on my google TV streaming stick so i know it's not optimized in the sense that it's different and leverages the appletv remote.

Poor choice of words maybe.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I'm not sure to what extent I would blame Apple for that

I don’t blame Apple for that at all.
I was merely refuting the stated concept that “apps are optimized for Apple TV”

The reason apps from major players don’t follow the rules is because they don’t have to ....because Apple has priced their box so high that almost nobody buys it - in relative terms - and so they have a no sizeable market share and thus no leverage to force big Corp Devs to make Apps how they want

 

[turbineseaplane]

optimized" to me just means doesn't crash

If the apps were crashing they wouldn’t even get approved by Apple and released in the first place.

I think most people would expect “optimized” to mean taking advantage of native player controls and the like.

Don’t get me wrong. I am not defending the Googles of the world.
I really do wish they were making truly optimized apps for each platform

 

[Malus120]

Apple's engineers are spot on here. Steve Job's may (or may not) have had a vision of Apple revolutionizing the living room before he passed but it just hasn't panned out particularly well either because he didn't have time to flesh it out before he passed, or because almost a decade has passed and his successor failed to deliver on making it a reality and is now content to just let it exist on life support as an expensive also ran for people already in Apple's orbit.

The lack of a clear strategy leaves the AppleTV to be a jack of all trades master of none.
The Apple TV content experience can be had on most newer TV's, consoles, and some competing set top boxes.
The Apple TV hardware experience doesn't do enough to differentiate itself from cheaper rivals as a set top box, and isn't nearly powerful enough (nor possess a library of compelling enough content) to compete with even the previous console generation as a gaming device.

For AppleTV to succeed as a platform, it needs to be compelling and just being the "best set top box for someone in the Apple eco-system" isn't enough.

 

[SYCAMOREGRAD]

Except quality.

Software is not top-notch. The 2nd and 3rd gens were great. Before tvOS…

 

[SYCAMOREGRAD]

I have to harken back to Jobs’ descriptor as “a hobby.”

 

[dbwie]

I don’t blame Apple for that at all.
I was merely refuting the stated concept that “apps are optimized for Apple TV”

The reason apps from major players don’t follow the rules is because they don’t have to ....because Apple has priced their box so high that almost nobody buys it - in relative terms - and so they have a no sizeable market share and thus no leverage to force big Corp Devs to make Apps how they want

Apple most likely has some user interface guidelines for AppleTV developers, just like they do for their other devices. They could tighten it up a bit, but it's hard to tell HBO, you can't have your menus vertically on the left side, you have to move them back to the top and have them horizontal. However, they can work with these App Developers to help them use the video scrubbing with the new remote effectively. My most used app on the AppleTV is Zwift, and the new Apple remote works clumsy in that app, I sometimes use my iPhone to control that app. But that is one app that is not on other streaming devices, because it needs the processing power in the Apple TV. EDIT: Zwift does work on Android tablets, but I'm not sure if they have a specific app for a google streaming dongle.

I doubt that one of these major developers would remove their app from the Apple TV if Apple gave them pushback to improve their app, that would give them a lot of bad press. Nobody cares if something gets pulled off Roku when you can buy another $30 stick. But tick off Apple users, that is news!

 

[turbineseaplane]

But tick off Apple users, that is news!

You have it backwards in this case

Apple, to keep its own customers happy, needs the big content providers more than they need Apple.

Apple has no leverage here. That is specifically why all of the big players release their apps that do whatever the hell they want with no regard for the iOS or tvOS guidelines.

If Apple tried to force somebody like HBO or Amazon to only make an app a certain way and they pulled it… Customers will be mad at Apple not HBO or Amazon

 

[dbwie]

If Apple tried to force somebody like HBO or Amazon to only make an app a certain way and they pulled it… Customers will be mad at Apple not HBO or Amazon

I don't agree with this statement. Can you imagine if HBO or Amazon pulled their app because they didn't want to do the work to get their video player to scrub back and forth using the new Apple remote in ways that Apple intended, people would get on Amazon and HBO about that. Apple always has the leverage of being Apple. Like it or not, the people who pay a premium for a streaming device are the kind of people that Amazon and HBO want to keep happy.

 

[Michaelhuisman]

native FaceTime via the appletv in the livin room tv. Via a direct connected camera or any camera in the Home app. That they didn’t prioritize this during COVID is mind-boggling.

far better integration with cable and fiber providers, replacing the need for boxes from them in every room. Yeah, the tv *app* is supposed to do that but living in Europe they’ve never gotten that right, perhaps too many partners to deal with but that’s a resources problem and with Apple’a resources… should never be a problem…

 

[m4mario]

Its important Apple stays relevant in the living room. Because companies push whatever their strong suit is and it affects global culture. If Apple fails in the living room, then Apple will push technology in a certain direction where they are strong in. And that could result in a future where there just won't be a living room. Just everyone having their own private rooms.

 

[alex2792]

Apple TV is just a poor value proposition compared to much cheaper competitor many of which are actually integrated into smart TVs. The hardware is way overpriced and overpowered for streaming videos and underpowered for console level gaming. The fact that many TVs now support AirPlay makes Apple TV even more of a niche product for pretty much the hardest core apple cultists.

 

[btrach144]

• They released the 2021 AppleTV with HDMI 2.1 but don’t make use of any it’s features. It’s still outputting a HDMI 2.0 signal.
• In some (limited)tasks, the GPU is slower than the old 6 year old 3-4 year old 4K box.
• The scroll wheel on the remote sucks (how did the company that invented the iPod screw that up?!?).
• The remote lacks FindMy functionality. Apple literally showed stuff getting lost in a couch but has their head too far up their butt to admit they missed an opportunity and said the new remote is larger. It’s still tiny. The second smallest remote I’ve ever owned (first being last gen remote)
• They discontinued the OG HomePod
• The mini is the only device left and it’s good but even a stereo pair can’t hold a candle to the OG.

Apple needs to really push the hardware with the 2021 4K box. Implement QMS or something for Christ sake. Their promise of 4K 60fps content was complete vapor ware. They need a full size HomePod to come back.

And who the heck wants a FaceTime HomePod AppleTV? That thing sounds like it’s having an identity crisis.

It feels like Apple executives work 120 hour work weeks from the spaceship and don’t actually spend anytime at home. Their home approach reflects it.

 

[Wildkraut]

Revolts of the own camp, this will be punished.

 

[macduke]

This is what cracks it for me:

• Include full TV control, including multiple HDMI inputs to make it easy for switching and only needing to run one cable to the TV. Include Optical Audio output.
• Make each unit a WiFi 6 Airport mesh-compatible router with multiple Ethernet ports
• Make each unit a HomeKit node that can use Thread to control Matter.
• Center stage camera to zoom in and follow around the room FaceTime calls displayed on the TV. Almost every time we do video calls it’s the whole family involved and having it on the TV would be great, especially for my wife communicating with my deaf mother-in-law using sign language. Trying to hold an iPad awkwardly and sign sucks and not everyone has every apple device that makes it easier to do. The iPad folding stands aren’t a great angle either. Deaf people are used to using relay networks attached to a TV.
• Have a microphone array for Siri control of home accessories, FaceTime, etc and for full control of the TV (pause, play, what did they say, what actor is this, turn down the volume, switch to PS5, etc)
• Make AirPlay less terrible. It almost always takes a long time, and often fails to playback video from other sources.

 

[ian87w]

I feel that with Apple making Apple TV app available on other platforms like Android TV, it shows that they are having a different vision. Apple reluctance to push Apple TV set-top box to $99 or lower seems like an indicator that they would just provide the service as an app, and let other companies do the hardware/TVs.

In short, the set-top box market is not as profitable as Apple probably thought.

 

[xyz01]

The new Apple TV is really snappy, just more enjoyable to use than Vizio integrated SW.

They aren't more snappy than the last gen... I've got both, and I can't really see a difference. They're both snappy.

For me, the main difference is the remote and improved WiFi. The CPU they replaced is about on par with what they replaced, so the main benefit of that is to no longer require a CPU that was designed for an older iPad Pro and isn't used used in anything else. This simplifies their supply chain.

 

[xyz01]

I feel that with Apple making Apple TV app available on other platforms like Android TV, it shows that they are having a different vision. Apple reluctance to push Apple TV set-top box to $99 or lower seems like an indicator that they would just provide the service as an app, and let other companies do the hardware/TVs.

In short, the set-top box market is not as profitable as Apple probably thought.

I want the set top box and can do very fine without the AppleTV app. The main value of the box is in all the other apps on it - AppleTV+ is a service I wouldn't miss.

Not having to do with some slow, poor and soon to be outdated "Smart TV" - and in the worst case, supplied by Google who wants to sell you - is why I have 3 AppleTVs, and both my parents and sister also have a couple.

 

[bilbo--baggins]

I really hope they stick with it. The Apple TV has been slowly getting better over the years - to the point where it is now the only device we use with our TV’s. Up next is, for me, worth the price alone.

Discontinuing the HomePod without an improved version is baffling and dissapointing.

An Apple TV with a screen and camera would serve no purpose in my home, as far as I can see at the moment. I really hope that is a separate product line from the Apple TV. The worst thing would be if it was like the iPhone Max where you have to buy a bulky device that is larger than you want, just to get the high end features.