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Apple Engineers Reportedly Pessimistic About Apple's Living Room Hardware Strategy

cmaier said:
Well that was sort of my point. The apps aren’t good, you constantly get update notifications (and various other notifications) on the screen when all you want is a monitor, and they don’t support the software for as long as Apple supports Apple TV updates. That’s all i was saying.

I finally got my tv to stop bugging me with notifications by turning off all smart features and disabling its network access. Now it makes a fine monitor for Apple TV, my dish box, etc.
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My CX has a firmware update every month or two... not much different than iOS update frequency. The notification can be a bit in the way, but can be dismissed with a click on the remote or goes away after maybe 30 seconds.

Once every few weeks when I turn on the TV there's a brief text-only message in the upper right corner, similar to Apple notifications, and it automatically disappears after a couple seconds. Stuff like "HBO app now available" "TikTok app now available" or "3 free months of Apple TV+".
I redeemed the Apple TV+ subscription, so on the whole, those notifications have been a positive :)

The built in apps are fine. Basically the same as their Apple TV counterparts.

I don't get the updated OS from the C1 series, but from what I've seen I like the UI better on the CX anyway.

And if any of this changes, I can just disconnect the TV from the internet.

Apple devices have free trials advertised in their settings apps. Apple TV+ often has ads for other shows that play before it plays the show/movie you selected. The Apple TV also has ads for Apple services I have no interest in, such as music and fitness. So I wouldn't say LG is any more egregious with ads than Apple.
 
It’s funny to read about people saying that the Apple TV is expensive. For me it’s a bargain, its become the only way I use my TV’s - but I would like the option of high end Apple TV’s with M1 or better processors to use with Zwift (plus the ability to connect with more bluetooth accessories). I’m also disappointed they discontinued the HomePod without bring out a newer high end model. I’d like proper surround sound using HomePods or a combination of HomePods and HomePod Minis.
 
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SFjohn said:
We get LG TV updates about twice a year, but, we only use it as a monitor for our Mac mini entertainment server & the 2021 AppleTV 4K. I don’t see how we will be crippled in the years to come, our LG is only used as a monitor.
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You’ve misunderstood. No one is saying the physical TV will be crippled, only that its software will become outdated and lack security updates. The whole point is that if you’re using the tv in “dumb” mode as the front for an Apple TV, you’re getting a much better experience.
 
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I7guy said:
Balance that with having integration in the ecosystem. That said, many "equivalent" non-apple products are "cheaper".
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Which is why I own 3 of them myself, but it’s silly to say there aren’t “any benefits” to the competition.
 
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siddavis said:
Which is why I own 3 of them myself, but it’s silly to say there aren’t “any benefits” to the competition.
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Yep. I agree. I have a mixed environment household. My son has an amazon fire(?) I am impressed with it for what it does, but not so impressed I would buy it over an apple tv. But I realize YMMV on these things. The fire was cheap (read: inexpensive), I guess Amazon gives the hardware away for the subscriptions.
 
I7guy said:
Balance that with having integration in the ecosystem. That said, many "equivalent" non-apple products are "cheaper".
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i am curious what integration you speak of as it relates to the apple tv?

I ask as my roku and other devices have all the same "apps" from a contact perspective (netflix, prime, apple tv+, etc) and can be used via airplay for apple fitness

The only thing that comes to mind is any gaming on the apple tv, which is not important to me.

What else is there that would justify the very substantial increase in cost? genuinely curious.
 
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dukebound85 said:
i am curious what integration you speak of as it relates to the apple tv?

I ask as my roku and other devices have all the same "apps" from a contact perspective (netflix, prime, apple tv+, etc) and can be used via airplay for apple fitness

The only thing that comes to mind is any gaming on the apple tv, which is not important to me.

What else is there that would justify the very substantial increase in cost? genuinely curious.
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I don't game either. As I state above, I wasn't impressed with the fire stick. I'd rather get the ATV. It's a known quantity and I know it will be fully supported for the live of the device.
 
h3ysw5nkan said:
TV box upgrades wayyy faster than speakers. You don't want to throw out your expensive speakers just because you want a faster TV box processor.
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AppleTV SoC on a stick? Or just second hand it as a TV (non-gaming) box only.
 
h3ysw5nkan said:
The thing is at $99, it's simply not profitable. Apple needs to keep profit at 38%, so the per unit cost + sunk cost must stay below $62. That's not enough to make it that much better than the sticks. Sticks are cheap partially because they are subsidized by Google and Amazon. Apple doesn't subsidize their TV boxes, at least not after they opened up the 3rd party App Store on tvOS because they can no longer take a cut on everything in the TV app.
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Releasing the TV App on other devices shows they’ve conceded the low-end but there’s no advanced ATV to tackle gaming/complex content. That could be achieved by product aggregation.
 
My 2017 Apple TV 4K is collecting dust in my closet. tvOS is simply the worst of the bunch for discovering new content. It's also the most locked down.

Between my Roku 4K TV offering built-in AirPlay and my Fire Stick TV, I don't see a reason to use the Apple TV.

I also HATE the 'clunking' noise the UI makes when I hit the end of the list. Just awful.
 
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I use the Apple TV every day far better than a Fire stick or Roku if you live in the Apple eco System. What I would really like to see is a new HomePod released where you can use these as front speakers with the ability of using the Minis as rear surrounds.
 
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McDaveH said:
AppleTV SoC on a stick? Or just second hand it as a TV (non-gaming) box only.
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An A12 on a stick would do the trick.

People say that 'Amazon and Google are subsidizing because they want to sell you software' but conveniently omit that Apple also has a TV service and literally has the most profitable software store on the planet.

Apple has it's head in the sand with ATV. The UI is terrible for discovering new content, and developers don't really want to develop for it because no one uses an Apple TV. Plus they're STILL charging $150 for a 1080P streamer. In 2022!

A $69 A12 stick with a proper tvOS overhaul would bring more people into the ecosystem.
 
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SeenJeen said:
My 2017 Apple TV 4K is collecting dust in my closet. tvOS is simply the worst of the bunch for discovering new content. It's also the most locked down.

Between my Roku 4K TV offering built-in AirPlay and my Fire Stick TV, I don't see a reason to use the Apple TV.

I also HATE the 'clunking' noise the UI makes when I hit the end of the list. Just awful.
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You should get Infuse on your Apple TV.
 
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iSayuSay said:
Quite many, actually.
  1. AirPlay photos and videos from iPhone/iPad
  2. iCloud Photos, which quite useful for streaming recent family pictures
  3. Apple Music (simply because Apple TV is plugged into my AV receiver, which is the best audio system in the house).
  4. Dolby Atmos and Lossless for Apple Music, which practically a Day-1 upgrade with tvOS. Don't know when or whether it would work with its Android TV app.
  5. HomeKit hub and controls
  6. Siri commands
  7. Occasional Fitness+ sessions
I can't see any of those functions would work with just a generic Android TV box?
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1. Ok I agree

2. Would never do that

3. That’s what HomePods are
for

4. HomePods can’t do that.

5. Ok I agree. Never use it though

6. Useless other than a timer

7. Never will pay for apple fitness.
 
pdmpolishing said:
I use the Apple TV every day far better than a Fire stick or Roku if you live in the Apple eco System.
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In what ways? Please be specific. This same question was asked earlier by someone without any answers!

We're another satisfied Roku family, with all our phone, tablets, and computers being Apple, so I’d be curious what specific Apple eco-system advantages you're talking about that come with Apple TV…

P.S. Oops! Just saw the quoted comment before mine —

1 & 2. Airplay & iCloud photos… pretty sure photos can be displayed on our TV via Roku — did it years ago, but not since. We just look at the photos on the Mac. Do not store photos in iCloud.

3 & 4. Apple Music. Don't subscribe, so that’s not a plus.

5 & 6. Don't have a Home Kit set-up,and don't use Siri. For Siri, Apple makes you turn over all your contacts' info to them — WITHOUT getting the permission of those people. Bad Apple!

7. Don't have a Fitness+ subscription.

OK, but I get the point… If you want to stream photos and music to your TV or somehow operate home controls via your TV or do your fitness exercises in front of your TV, it would be quite helpful.

I guess living in the Apple eco system has a wide-range of meanings…. We use Apple products extensively, almost exclusively, but clearly must not be living in its eco system, even though I always thought we were! ?
 
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RadioHedgeFund said:
2 words: Emm. One.

Chuck the M1 processor into an Apple TV box. Create a decent pack-in controller. Fork out a few million for some big impressive 3rd party games eg a port of the FFVII Remake but also licence the retro back catalog of a big 3rd party (ie Sega) and lock it all into the still-£5-a-month Apple Arcade.

Sell for £200.
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Try apple low introductory price of $599
 
h3ysw5nkan said:
Since you have Plex and it's everywhere, do you think there is any benefit of getting an Apple TV vs much cheeper options like Roku Ultra?
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The main benefits of Apple TV over others are:
  • Native AirPlay support
  • HomePod support
  • AirPods support with Spatial Audio
  • Apple Arcade
  • No ads (or 'less' ads, technically, depending on your viewpoint)
The only point I care about above is AirPlay support. Roku offers AirPlay in most of their 4K devices, and Android streamers can use apps like AirScreen to play AirPlay streams. In terms of HomePod -- my home theatre setup blows away HomePods, and all of my streamers support bluetooth headphones.

In almost every other scenario I would choose an Android streamer over Apple TV. They're more flexible, cheaper, better user interface for discovering new shows/content, etc.
 
SeenJeen said:
The main benefits of Apple TV over others are:
  • Native AirPlay support
  • HomePod support
  • AirPods support with Spatial Audio
  • Apple Arcade
  • No ads (or 'less' ads, technically, depending on your viewpoint)
The only point I care about above is AirPlay support. Roku offers AirPlay in most of their 4K devices, and Android streamers can use apps like AirScreen to play AirPlay streams. In terms of HomePod -- my home theatre setup blows away HomePods, and all of my streamers support bluetooth headphones.

In almost every other scenario I would choose an Android streamer over Apple TV. They're more flexible, cheaper, better user interface for discovering new shows/content, etc.
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So, in your realistic use case, you can't think of any reason to get an Apple TV 4K over Roku Ultra?

That would be my thought too, with the exception of Infuse native playback of any format without transcoding on Plex. Also, Siri and Apple Home Automation can use Apple TV as a hub, but there is virtually no hardware support, or they are way to expensive over the competitors. Then, maybe privacy and security of Apple software over Android, etc.

I'm really debating if I should just get Roku Ultra instead.
 
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