Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Apple Engineers Reportedly Pessimistic About Apple's Living Room Hardware Strategy

h3ysw5nkan said:
So, in your realistic use case, you can't think of any reason to get an Apple TV 4K over Roku Ultra?

That would be my thought too, with the exception of Infuse native playback of any format without transcoding on Plex. Also, Siri and Apple Home Automation can use Apple TV as a hub, but there is virtually no hardware support, or they are way to expensive over the competitors. Then, maybe privacy and security of Apple software over Android, etc.

I'm really debating if I should just get Roku Ultra instead.
Click to expand...

I'm not a fan of either Roku's or Apple TV's interfaces. They both have app-centric interfaces which (IMO) is not the right approach for TV. I just happen to use Roku because it's built into my TV and it's easy enough to launch AirPlay or my Fire Stick. Roku's app ecosystem, quite frankly, sucks. Roku is using a custom Linux build, not Android, so privacy/security is similar for the Apple TV and Roku.

You're probably better off going with a retailer that will let you try both for a few weeks and then decide. You may be happier with Apple TV because of the better App ecosystem. Sorry for not being definitive but it's highly subjective.

But if you're comparing Fire TV or Android TV to Apple TV, the Apple TV would lose almost every time. These devices are just much better at discovering new/related content.
 
SeenJeen said:
better user interface for discovering new shows/content, etc
Click to expand...
I’m confused by this angle. The interface within apps is effectively the same across platforms, so content discovery should be the same whether you’re on Netflix on an Apple TV or a Roku, and it doesn’t seem like the job of the set-top box or it’s OS to present you with new content. Plus there’s the Apple TV app which draws together content from nearly all apps, which Roku lacks an equivalent of. The only thing you do get is adverts on a Roku, but that’s not “finding new content”, that’s Netflix or whoever pushing their latest nonsense on to your Home Screen. Can you explain what you mean?
 
Dear apple: give me a HomeKit device that has line-in and can turn it into airplay. Maybe add it to the appleTV? Given that appears to the the "central living room hub" or at least that's what it seems to be intended as.

I've got freaking HomePods everywhere and the fact that I can't play something from say, my record player through them all without janky/expensive third party solutions is a joke.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ErikGrim
X38 said:
Apple has always been too worried about what AppleTV isn’t instead of letting it be what it can be. It’s a powerful bit of hardware that they unnecessarily handicap. It is an iOS device and should be treated as such - just mind-boggling that it can’t run iMessage, FaceTime, Safari, Mail, etc. or third party equivalents on a TV screen. Also stupid that it doesn’t have a decent input channel - it should have multiple Thunderbolt / USB-C ports with the ability to add input from cameras for video chat, TV sources such as a cable box so that the AppleTV OS can be used as a source and channel selector and DVR, and overlay AppleTV functions on top of whatever source one is watching (such as an iMessage or FaceTime call in a PiP window) without having to switch the TV back & forth between some other source and the AppleTV. Apple is too caught up in their own hubris to do so though. All the hardware and software pieces needed for AppleTV to be a big deal have been there all along. The only missing piece has been Apple’s willingness to execute.
Click to expand...

So much this.

Bring back an external FaceTime camera (or even just allow third party via USB) and you've got an epic video conferencing device you can deploy to any TV in the house/company. Normally these setups are several thousand dollars due to running a PC, windows, etc. to drive the webcam and they're a pain in the bollocks to maintain.

Tap iPhone to sign in, sign out from phone or on the display, and be happy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: adib
SirAnthonyHopkins said:
it doesn’t seem like the job of the set-top box or it’s OS to present you with new content.
Click to expand...
I disagree. A good TV OS should recommend similar shows you've been watching across streaming services.

I'm subscribed to ATV+, Prime, Netflix, Disney+ and HBO Max. I shouldn't have to go to each individual app to see what shows there are related to what I like to watch. With Android TV if I watch a series on Netflix it will start recommending me similar shows on HBO Max, for example.

This is precisely why my Apple TV 4K is collecting dust in a closet somewhere and my Roku TV is merely an Android TV launcher. I've gifted Apple TVs for extended family members over the years and they never use them either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: compwiz1202
RE: recommendation engines

Yeah I can see the appeal. But I'd also like the option to turn off such recommendations or ads.

There is already so much TV to watch now... I don't need any more recommendations. :)

Imagine if web browsers said this:

"You're visiting Macrumors... may I suggest AppleInsider?"

?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SirAnthonyHopkins
hagar said:
No you’re not. you need more than a fast chip, that’s why there are hardly any decent AAA games for Mac.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Apple needs good support from 3rd party developers. There are a few gems in Apple Arcade that can be considered AAA (i.e. Fantasian). However these kind of games are sparse.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CarlJ
adib said:
Yeah, Apple needs good support from 3rd party developers. There are a few gems in Apple Arcade that can be considered AAA (i.e. Fantasian). However these kind of games are sparse.
Click to expand...
Apple needs support from 3rd party developers of AAA games that they can only get by showing substantial and consistent support for 3rd party game developers. They’ve had numerous times when Apple has reached out a hand, and then… sorta wandered off after a while, to put more energy into some other product. If they’d make an effort and stick with it, you might get more companies writing games with the Mac in mind. But at this point, I’d expect the gaming companies are a little gun shy and it’d take more effort for longer, to get them to trust Apple to keep paying attention. Meanwhile, Microsoft keeps buying up game developers.

These days, I’m happier playing games on a PS5 - it’s built for that purpose, and Sony gives the developers lots of support. The Mac will eclipse the PS5‘s hardware at some point, but the PS5 will still get a ton more games, because there’s 20+ million of them out there that all have exactly the same specs (so, one single platform to target, no worrying about if it has the right graphics card or whatever - there’s also an established base of 120+ million PS4’s, and PS5’s can run PS4 games), and the company writing the system software is focused on gaming, and don’t get distracted by other projects (yes, sure, Sony does other things, but the PlayStation group is dedicated to just gaming).
 
CarlJ said:
Apple needs support from 3rd party developers of AAA games that they can only get by showing substantial and consistent support for 3rd party game developers. They’ve had numerous times when Apple has reached out a hand, and then… sorta wandered off after a while, to put more energy into some other product. If they’d make an effort and stick with it, you might get more companies writing games with the Mac in mind. But at this point, I’d expect the gaming companies are a little gun shy and it’d take more effort for longer, to get them to trust Apple to keep paying attention. Meanwhile, Microsoft keeps buying up game developers.

These days, I’m happier playing games on a PS5 - it’s built for that purpose, and Sony gives the developers lots of support. The Mac will eclipse the PS5‘s hardware at some point, but the PS5 will still get a ton more games, because there’s 20+ million of them out there that all have exactly the same specs (so, one single platform to target, no worrying about if it has the right graphics card or whatever - there’s also an established base of 120+ million PS4’s, and PS5’s can run PS4 games), and the company writing the system software is focused on gaming, and don’t get distracted by other projects (yes, sure, Sony does other things, but the PlayStation group is dedicated to just gaming).
Click to expand...
If Apple really wanted to do something like that they have a platform of sorts in Apple Arcade - pay an upfront fee for a developer to create a suitable game that can fit into the Apple Arcade service.

They seem to have a thing against buying up developers like Microsoft buying Bungie to get Halo back in the day.

Buying up specific games for Apple Arcade might be the strategy but it’s not going to be popular without the marketing buzz.
 
sublunar said:
If Apple really wanted to do something like that they have a platform of sorts in Apple Arcade - pay an upfront fee for a developer to create a suitable game that can fit into the Apple Arcade service.
Click to expand...
I think the problem with that is that Apple Arcade is gated behind a monthly subscription. They'd have to come up with a really world-beating AAA title (or several) to get very many people to jump through that hoop. If I want to play a AAA title on my PS5, there's a ton to choose from, I can buy it as a one-time purchase in under a minute, have it downloaded in a few more, and play forever if I want. Very low bar to entry - after having the PS5, of course - I mean I can go from "I'd like to play game X" to "I'm playing game X" in 10 minutes for a single price with no subscription.

And developers will write for this hardware because: 1) it's very capable; 2) there's tens of millions (hundreds of millions if you count PS4's) that all have exactly the same specs so it's a single target to write to; and 3) Sony doesn't keep losing interest in game development.

I'd love to see Apple release an Apple TV that could run circles around the PS5 and Xbox Series X, along with a good controller, and then support the hell out of game developers (and commit to doing that long-term) to get them to write to it (or port to it - even if it's just an additional target alongside the PS4/PS5, XSX, and Switch), but... I'm not gonna hold my breath.
 
CarlJ said:
I'd love to see Apple release an Apple TV that could run circles around the PS5 and Xbox Series X, along with a good controller, and then support the hell out of game developers (and commit to doing that long-term) to get them to write to it (or port to it - even if it's just an additional target alongside the PS4/PS5, XSX, and Switch), but... I'm not gonna hold my breath.
Click to expand...

That would be cool, especially around the current price point. The problem, however is two fold:
  1. Apple seems to see ATV gaming as an extension of mobile gaming; not as a console experience separate from mobile
  2. Some of the biggest development houses are owned by Sony and MS; who may not want to port their big games to a competitor's console
 
  • Like
Reactions: compwiz1202 and CarlJ
CarlJ said:
I'd love to see Apple release an Apple TV that could run circles around the PS5 and Xbox Series X, along with a good controller, and then support the hell out of game developers (and commit to doing that long-term) to get them to write to it (or port to it - even if it's just an additional target alongside the PS4/PS5, XSX, and Switch), but... I'm not gonna hold my breath.
Click to expand...
jlc1978 said:
That would be cool, especially around the current price point. The problem, however is two fold:
  1. Apple seems to see ATV gaming as an extension of mobile gaming; not as a console experience separate from mobile
  2. Some of the biggest development houses are owned by Sony and MS; who may not want to port their big games to a competitor's console
Click to expand...
Running rings around the PS5 would not be possible at AppleTV6 prices and as we can also see, Apple don't seem interested in competing with Microsoft to buy up a AAA games studio to make their own Halo.

Just look at how they might price up a Mac mini M2 - $699-799 probably and graphics performance is only around 3.6 TFLOPs compared to the 10 TFLOPs that the PS5 supposedly puts out and the 12 TFLOPs for the Xbox series X.

M1 in iPads would surely be a good gaming target as that CPU becomes available lower down the range.

Apple could compete with the M2 against Xbox series S which is 4 TFLOPs, which is a start.

But that's just technology, Apple are looking at some sort of DLSS technology (display upscaling) aka MetalFX for iOS 16 which is a step in the right direction - but they will have to sponsor some developers to write for it by paying for stuff to go on Apple Arcade in my opinion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CarlJ
X38 said:
Apple has always been too worried about what AppleTV isn’t instead of letting it be what it can be. It’s a powerful bit of hardware that they unnecessarily handicap. It is an iOS device and should be treated as such - just mind-boggling that it can’t run iMessage, FaceTime, Safari, Mail, etc. or third party equivalents on a TV screen. Also stupid that it doesn’t have a decent input channel - it should have multiple Thunderbolt / USB-C ports with the ability to add input from cameras for video chat, TV sources such as a cable box so that the AppleTV OS can be used as a source and channel selector and DVR, and overlay AppleTV functions on top of whatever source one is watching (such as an iMessage or FaceTime call in a PiP window) without having to switch the TV back & forth between some other source and the AppleTV. Apple is too caught up in their own hubris to do so though. All the hardware and software pieces needed for AppleTV to be a big deal have been there all along. The only missing piece has been Apple’s willingness to execute.
Click to expand...
Yes, Please! Excellent ideas re: integration. I love my 4 Apple TV's and wouldn't trade them for any other interface. However, there is always room for exceptional improvement as detailed above.
 
I know that this doesn't comport with the tech specs, but have watched Yellowstone through Apple TV on LG OLED screen with my son who is an audio engineer. He noted that the picture was so much better than the FireStick or Roku and through the AppleTV it appeared the show was native 4K. Yellowstone watched at his house through the other two devices on a similar screen did not have the clarity or color resolution, IMHO.
 
X38 said:
Apple has always been too worried about what AppleTV isn’t instead of letting it be what it can be. It’s a powerful bit of hardware that they unnecessarily handicap. It is an iOS device and should be treated as such - just mind-boggling that it can’t run iMessage, FaceTime, Safari, Mail, etc. or third party equivalents on a TV screen. Also stupid that it doesn’t have a decent input channel - it should have multiple Thunderbolt / USB-C ports with the ability to add input from cameras for video chat, TV sources such as a cable box so that the AppleTV OS can be used as a source and channel selector and DVR, and overlay AppleTV functions on top of whatever source one is watching (such as an iMessage or FaceTime call in a PiP window) without having to switch the TV back & forth between some other source and the AppleTV. Apple is too caught up in their own hubris to do so though. All the hardware and software pieces needed for AppleTV to be a big deal have been there all along. The only missing piece has been Apple’s willingness to execute.
Click to expand...

I said, and you missed it apparently: Remember WebTV?

WebTV was a joke, and very largely a failure. I would hate to see Apple try to make that a success. WebTV was a joke. When I first saw one, I kinda liked it, but it quickly grew stale and unusable. People that had it were generally 'older people', and also 'poorer people', and it was all they could get, for their money. It just sucked though. Slow, cumbersome, very limited. Maybe, since Java and Flash are dead, it has a chance to make it as a 'web computer', but I still doubt it. There is a hole in the industry around that for a reason. I'd rather see people hook up an actual computer, like a Mac Mini to be what you want than have a small box try to be 'all that'.

It sounds like a great idea, but it's been done many times before, and failed before.
 
PinkyMacGodess said:
It sounds like a great idea, but it's been done many times before, and failed before.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Television as a “do-all” device likely will never work as folks have found that the living room is not the most comfortable place for all they want to do. I would imagine there’s some folks that remember their WebTV fondly and would like an updated “that”, but it’s just nostalgia.
 
  • Love
Reactions: PinkyMacGodess
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back