Apple Engineers Reportedly Pessimistic About Apple's Living Room Hardware Strategy

[Realityck]

Despite the obvious benefits of an Apple TV for users invested in Apple's ecosystem, Gurman opines that the set-top box is largely failing in a market dominated by cheaper alternatives from the likes of Amazon and Roku, and that Apple needs to introduce a more competitively priced stick-like Apple TV or offer more features if it wants to stay relevant in the living room.

However, "as of now, it's hard to believe that will happen soon," claims Gurman, "especially with Apple engineers telling me that the company doesn't have a strong living room hardware strategy and that there isn't much internal optimism."

Gurman points out that the Apple TV software has gone through more interface redesigns that perhaps any other Apple product, and yet still it has failed to crack the market. Meanwhile, Apple's combined Apple TV-HomePod device remains on schedule for release around 2023.

If that doesn't go well, Gurman suggests "it might be time for Apple to consider putting the Apple TV on the same shelf as other living room products like the iPod HiFi and high-end HomePod."

Hmm Mark Gurman is flat wrong. Too much emphasis on what he thinks is useful personally, and not what others here actually use a APTV4K for. This isn't even touching upon using the ATV4K as a front end to a NAS setup of your media collection.

https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-250002962

With the Apple TV app on your smart TV or third party streaming device, you can access:

• iTunes Store movies and TV shows (buy or rent);
• Apple TV+ channel featuring Apple Originals, by subscription;
• other premium Apple TV app Channels, each by subscription.

With the Apple TV box, you can additionally get

• A choice of 12,000+ apps from the tvOS App Store, including streaming services that may not (yet) be available on some other platforms
• Integration of some of these streaming services apps into the Apple TV app
• iTunes Extras (bonus content for iTunes Store movies) for titles that have this feature
• Home Sharing (local network) movies, tv shows, music, photos, home videos, podcasts, audiobooks
• AirPlay streaming from devices to the Apple TV box [Some smart TVs may support this as well]
• Apple Music on TV [Some smart TVs may support this as well]
• Photos from iCloud
• Apple Podcasts
• Games, individual apps or Apple Arcade line of games subscription
• Siri voice assistant for TV, where available
• HomeKit hub smart devices integration
• Beautifully paced aerial screen savers (a selection from near 100 randomized clips)
• Personal photo screen saver option through iCloud Photos or Home Sharing
• Apple Fitness+

HomePod and iPod Hi-Fi absolutely share similar goals of Apple's interpretation of offering the best home audio experience, but ultimately weren't attractive to consumers.

Music has largely moved to the clouds and now streams directly to all our many phones, tablets, TVs, watches, and home speakers. HomePod relied too much on voice control primarily as the controller.

The two examples represent trying to fool the community that they actually offered a lot, but they really didn't IMHO. Still can remember Steve Jobs proclaiming this close together speaker arrangement obsoleted your HiFi setup at home. 🤪

 

[4jasontv]

Which model/s?

I have an LG TV and see none of those things.

The only thing I’ve seen is the extra banner when bringing up the menu. Until I disabled it in the settings (it’s called Home Promotion).

I haven’t found the option to hide the Apple TV ads. How do I get rid of those?

I showed you screen shots and gave a link showing reviews talking about it.

Toss the Apple TV apps you don’t want in a folder and wave goodbye.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Too much emphasis on what he thinks is useful personally, and not what others here actually use a APTV4K for. This isn't even touching upon using the ATV4K as a front end to a NAS setup of your media collection.

I know you said "here" (meaning the forum)...

But you do realize what a tiny tiny tiny micro slice of the user base "front end to a NAS setup" is, right?

 

[Khedron]

There really isn't a benefit to apple tv over any competitors

Apple TV has nice screen savers. That’s the benefit. And I’d almost pay the Apple TV price just for that feature.

But it hurts knowing Apple could do so much better except Tim hates anything that improves user’s experience without somehow earning Apple a percentage.

 

[kesenwangs]

Apple's living room hardware strategy remains poorly defined and lacks a coherent vision, with engineers allegedly pessimistic about the product line, according to a new report.

This year the Apple TV got an iterative update with a redesigned Siri Remote, while the HomePod was discontinued. Apple is now said to be developing a combined HomePod-Apple TV device with a built-in screen and FaceTime camera.

In his latest "Power On" newsletter, however, Bloomberg journalist Mark Gurman says that Apple engineers have personally expressed concerns to him about the direction of Apple's living room hardware strategy.

Despite the obvious benefits of an Apple TV for users invested in Apple's ecosystem, Gurman opines that the set-top box is largely failing in a market dominated by cheaper alternatives from the likes of Amazon and Roku, and that Apple needs to introduce a more competitively priced stick-like Apple TV or offer more features if it wants to stay relevant in the living room.

However, "as of now, it's hard to believe that will happen soon," claims Gurman, "especially with Apple engineers telling me that the company doesn't have a strong living room hardware strategy and that there isn't much internal optimism."

Gurman points out that the Apple TV software has gone through more interface redesigns that perhaps any other Apple product, and yet still it has failed to crack the market. Meanwhile, Apple's combined Apple TV-HomePod device remains on schedule for release around 2023.

If that doesn't go well, Gurman suggests "it might be time for Apple to consider putting the Apple TV on the same shelf as other living room products like the iPod HiFi and high-end HomePod."

Article Link: Apple Engineers Reportedly Pessimistic About Apple's Living Room Hardware Strategy

I dunno, personally love Apple TV as it completely eliminates any need to rely on the crap software that LG TV’s be putting out the past couple years. Like actually would much rather just a great TV without any smart functions as Apple TV will just be used the whole time. Don’t subscribe to any cable channels or anything like that.

 

[Khedron]

I showed you screen shots and gave a link showing reviews talking about it.

Toss the Apple TV apps you don’t want in a folder and wave goodbye.

I’ll have a look. My TV is only a couple of years old. So if this is a new direction I won’t be upgrading anytime soon. Not that I buy TVs often anyway.

Folders just make the icons smaller it doesn’t hide them.

 

[Royksöpp]

It’s always been a niche product. The people who pay the premium love it. There are no complaints there.

 

[BuffaloTF]

Which model/s?

I have an LG TV and see none of those things.

The only thing I’ve seen is the extra banner when bringing up the menu. Until I disabled it in the settings (it’s called Home Promotion).

I haven’t found the option to hide the Apple TV ads. How do I get rid of those?

Check out the new UI on the C1/G1. Find a YouTube video of it to keep it easy. It's full-screen when you hit the Home button, instead of the little cards that may have a small horizontal ad banner above it -- which when you see this you'll say something like "that wasn't obtrusive at all"... (maybe not)

I have a C9, CX, and C1. The C1, despite being better, is slower to use because of the ads.

 

[Khedron]

Check out the new UI on the C1/G1. Find a YouTube video of it to keep it easy. It's full-screen when you hit the Home button, instead of the little cards that may have a small horizontal ad banner above it -- which when you see this you'll say something like "that wasn't obtrusive at all"... (maybe not)

I have a C9, CX, and C1. The C1, despite being better, is slower to use because of the ads.

Well according the the posted website my TV has ads (home banners) which can’t be disabled. Except I disabled them. Maybe the option came later as a software update.

Never seen anything full screen. That’s madness. I’d return that TV for refund.

 

[SFjohn]

Allow truehd atmos and I will ditch my shields. If they did that it would be my perfect device.

The current Apple TV supports True Dolby Vision & Atmos. Has a 2.1 HDMI port. The quality is amazing.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

What I find odd about the story is that the engineers have spoken directly to a reporter, and that it isn't a leak. I can't imagine Apple is going to be too pleased about that.

What's even more interesting - and I work for a software engineering company - is that there's enough negativity that it's worth running a story about. This means it's more than just your typical annoyances due to a time crunch, or a disgruntled employee, but it's instead systemic and theoretically collaborated by multiple sources.

 

[turbineseaplane]

What's even more interesting - and I work for a software engineering company - is that there's enough negativity that it's worth running a story about. This means it's more than just your typical annoyances due to a time crunch, or a disgruntled employee, but it's instead systemic and theoretically collaborated by multiple sources.

I'm not surprised..
The ATV has been moving at a glacial pace.

Even if one loves everything about it, it's fair to expect more value, progress and vision at this point.

I have and enjoy my ATV's, but I can't honestly say I'd buy them again right now if I had to replace them.

(I actually got one of them for free as it is from trying out DirecTV Now)

 

[Jensend]

I showed you screen shots and gave a link showing reviews talking about it.

Toss the Apple TV apps you don’t want in a folder and wave goodbye.

I showed you a screen shot of what my LG CX looks like. I even tried to find ads in the full screen home view and there were none.

I did, however, have to go into the settings menu to turn off the ads when I first got the TV. And I waved goodbye to the ads.

 

[donguevas]

Although my TV has Airplay, it doesn't have Bluetooth so keeping the ATV is how I can use my headphones. I'm an Apple TV+ fan and I like to use home sharing for movies on my Mac, so all around it makes sense to keep it. I won't upgrade it unless it becomes completely unusable.

Do you have a Series 3, because the Apple TV HD and the 4ks have bluetooth.

Untrue https://www.bestappletv.com/news/ex...-tvos-app-for-its-21-million-cable-customers/ The only way to watch Comcast cable on a TV is to Airplay it to the Apple TV, which makes no sense (and lose any Apple TV interface benefits) to do and you could do with a sub-$50 stick or just use the cable box; way less effort.

They should work out better deals with cable providers if they want to get people on board. Many many people still do want to watch cable; 20 million just on Xfinity cable.

Putting Apple's interface in the mix would get some people over. You cant just hope people want to spend 2-3 times as much to watch the same Nexflix, Hulu, Disney, etc anymore that you can get for $50 and less. MANY TVs come with that ability built-in these days for $0.

Something different if you wonder why you only have 2-3% of the market.

Comcast has an exclusivity agreement with Roku.

 

[MakeAppleAwesomeAgain]

“Despite the obvious benefits of an Apple TV for users invested in Apple's ecosystem”

How about the more obvious absence of benefits?

1. Buy an iPhone taking 4K videos.
2. Buy a 2TB iCloud subscription to store and sync your videos.
3. Buy an Apple TV 4K.
4. Watch your videos in 720p on your 60” 4K screen.
5. ???
6. Wonder why this thing isn’t selling so well.

3. Scan each and every picture

I’ve spent money on them for 15+ years. They’ve done some stupid stuff (butterfly keyboards, macOS quality, abandoning pro users for years), but they really crossed a line this time. No matter the news article or subject, I can’t stop thinking about them lying about privacy. For the first time in 15 years, I think this will really damage the brand.

 

[coolajami]

Nothing new here.
Apple had some powerhouses in her hands, aka Apple TV and Airplay2, but make it impossible for the critical time of adaption for almost anyone to develop apps or devices supporting these.
I’m sure the dev team of airplay2 they would pulling the hair watching Apple’s strategy on the technology.

 

[bokonon]

i wonder if apple could really do well here, but are trying to keep the heat off on the court cases by having markets they don't dominate in. they have to be able to point to something and say "see we dont' clobber every market we enter"... its the only reasoning i can justify to myself for being so disappointed in their consumer video offerings.

 

[SFjohn]

Since you can now get a new Apple TV for $149 it’s not expensive for the features. I don’t see anyone mentioning that the Apple TV runs the HomeKit Home App. You can do that on an iPad as well, but the cheapest iPad is well over 2x the price of the Apple TV. Those of you willing to give away your privacy can always find cheaper. For people who value their privacy, Apple TV is a bargain.

 

[sublunar]

The screen size is the issue

Grandparents want to use their 75" screen and sit on the couch to see their grandkids, etc

I'm totally with you on this, but placement of the camera will be the issue - will Apple be allowing 3rd party webcams? They've had since early 2020 to brainstorm an idea for this but the current 4k AppleTV (released April 2021) doesn't have a USB port to plug a webcam in so any solution they come up with for that would have to require new hardware.

The story about a merged HomePod/Soundbar/AppleTV idea suggests it's a way off but you'd imagine that something with an ultra wide camera with face tracking would allow for a single HDMI cable to connect to the TV as usual without having to worry too much about ideal placement (within reason). The sound bar feature sounds like an excuse to jack up the price but it wouldn't be too bad if they decided to throw in an A14 or M1 into the device.

With such a powerful CPU in place you can bet that Apple really need to work hard on making Apple Arcade a more compelling proposition.

 

[tyranne201]

I don't get living room devices. The future is mobile. People will watch programs on iPad, not on TV. U listen to ur music mostly with headphones. There is no need to worry about a lack of strategy in this area. Why have an Apple TV when u can see all ur favorite shows in mini-LED giant iPad?

 

[krfr]

I love my TV. I hope they don’t axe the product line.

 

[4jasontv]

I’ll have a look. My TV is only a couple of years old. So if this is a new direction I won’t be upgrading anytime soon. Not that I buy TVs often anyway.

Folders just make the icons smaller it doesn’t hide them.

It seems to be part of their revenue plan going forward. I feel for the people who bought one and then had the ads added after a update. Even the $10k+ models got them added. Samsung is slowly doing the same thing, and unfortunately the margins in TVs isn’t big enough to make ads a judgement call. I love the OLED screen but their TVs are just not priced high enough to avoid it I guess.

Put the apps you hate on another page in a folder with 9 other apps and it will only show the first page. It’s not perfect, I get that, but it works well enough that you won’t think about them. The gen 3 Apple TV had a hide option, and I wish they would bring it back. You can also set the tv button to go to the Apple TV app instead of the main screen. For me that works because I mostly watch up next content, and I’ll double tap the tv button to jump to YouTube or Netflix.

 

[TravelsInBlue]

I’m usually the first to hate on some of Apples decision making and some of their products. Hated the HomePod, don’t think the iPad is a legitimately useful device outside of consumption, hate the touchbar and watered down MBP’s.


But I think the Apple TV is a good device. For what it does, it’s best in class and I prefer it to the alternatives from its competitors, even with the premium on price. Third parties are also much more likely to have app support on Apples App Store over any others. Lorex, VLC, Spotify, it’s all there.


Does that mean I want apple in all of the other parts of my home? Honestly no, for that I’m fine using Amazons integration with Hue and Honeywell, but I do have an Apple TV in several rooms and they all get used.

 

[farewelwilliams]

this is why engineers aren't included in product design.

this is coming from an engineer.

 

[Bandaman]

There really isn't a benefit to apple tv over any competitors

Except that it's the best out of all of them.