Apple Engineers Reportedly Pessimistic About Apple's Living Room Hardware Strategy

[Jensend]

“Despite the obvious benefits of an Apple TV for users invested in Apple's ecosystem”

How about the more obvious absence of benefits?

1. Buy an iPhone taking 4K videos.
2. Buy a 2TB iCloud subscription to store and sync your videos.
3. Buy an Apple TV 4K.
4. Watch your videos in 720p on your 60” 4K screen.
5. ???
6. Wonder why this thing isn’t selling so well.

Yeah. The ecosystem advantage didn’t work well for me either. when I got the iPhone 12 Pro, I had the latest Apple TV 4K that was available, the best TV that was available, an LG CX OLED, and 2TB of iCloud.
Videos shot with the phone don’t play back in full quality.
Photos don’t display in HDR.
I’d like the ability to edit and organize photos on the TV.
Black levels are elevated in Dolby Vision content, while black levels are perfect when playing through an app on the TV (such as the Apple TV+ app).
AirPlay through the TV works better than AirPlay through the Apple TV.
The remote is awful.
And I don’t really get any ads in the built in TV UI. I click the home button, an app bar pops up on the bottom of the screen and I click what I want to open. (Though very occasionally, once a month maybe, when I turn on the TV a text message in the upper right corner that says some new streaming app is available and disappears after a few seconds).

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Discontinuing it would be idiotic for Apple. It is the main device that ties in photos, videos and the entire ecosystem.

Good point. Of course, folks ONLY interested in streaming and gaming wouldn’t understand this quiet bit of integration that makes the AppleTV a delight for customers.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Everyone keeps claiming others are laggy but hold 95%+of the market. If they were THAT bad as claimed, then people would be buying up Apple TVs. Clearly, they are good enough for the market; and at a price point people will choose.

Just because they’re “good enough for the market” doesn’t mean they’re NOT “as bad as claimed”, they both can be simultaneously true. There’s a small part of the market that has money and wants a more Apple ecosystem-centric solution. Those will ALWAYS be a tiny part of the “tv connected device” market, BUT, as long as it’s profitable for Apple, (and, as we’re talking about a tiny part of an ENORMOUS market, it likely is) they’ll continue to make them.

 

[Rychiar]

my Apple TV seemed pretty necessary until I got an LGCX OLED this past winter. this things built in software is snappier moire modern, and I love the magic remote. Apple TV feels dated after using that. Plus it has enough apps to be good for anything I use it for including streaming movies off an NAS which it easily discovered no prob and gives better picture quality than the Apple TV with said files

 

[bushman4]

Apple has fallen behind on the Apple TV. First is a better remote even the new remote is antiquated and to simple
The interface needs a do-over
The price is high but give me the quality and software and I’ll pay it

 

[4jasontv]

Yeah. The ecosystem advantage didn’t work well for me either. when I got the iPhone 12 Pro, I had the latest Apple TV 4K that was available, the best TV that was available, an LG CX OLED, and 2TB of iCloud.
Videos shot with the phone don’t play back in full quality.
Photos don’t display in HDR.
I’d like the ability to edit and organize photos on the TV.
Black levels are elevated in Dolby Vision content, while black levels are perfect when playing through an app on the TV (such as the Apple TV+ app).
AirPlay through the TV works better than AirPlay through the Apple TV.
The remote is awful.
And I don’t really get any ads in the built in TV UI. I click the home button, an app bar pops up on the bottom of the screen and I click what I want to open. (Though very occasionally, once a month maybe, when I turn on the TV a text message in the upper right corner that says some new streaming app is available and disappears after a few seconds).

The new CX and GX LG TVs have ads. Maybe you have an old OLED that didn't have as many? But one screenshot that doesn't show an ad isn't really proof you don't have them. You can see them everywhere on the TV. It's so bad that Rtings has a database detailing the extent of the ad placement on different models and brands.

Try the ring-free apple tv remote. It's so much more intuitive.

 

[Greyhulk]

Apple TV is just about the only streaming hardware that doesn’t spam you with ads. For that reason alone, it will always be my default choice.

 

[jetjaguar]

Allow truehd atmos and I will ditch my shields. If they did that it would be my perfect device.

 

[justin0712]

“Despite the obvious benefits of an Apple TV for users invested in Apple's ecosystem”

How about the more obvious absence of benefits?

1. Buy an iPhone taking 4K videos.
2. Buy a 2TB iCloud subscription to store and sync your videos.
3. Buy an Apple TV 4K.
4. Watch your videos in 720p on your 60” 4K screen.
5. ???
6. Wonder why this thing isn’t selling so well.

I can name a large reason it does not sell as well as it could. Price! Most users spend their time inside a video app. Only seeing the interface to whatever system for a few seconds. If the App performs well, the user really does not care what device they have. Myself included. I used to be a huge Apple TV advocate. Specifically during the early years of DirecTV Now. It was the only system that did not suffer from constant buffering. The landscape has changed, I watch Hulu No Ads, HBO Max and Discovery Plus. I do not need a 160 dollar device to do what the Chromecast with Google TV can do at a fraction of the cost. I did hook up an ethernet adapter but I had a few laying around because well.. I own a MacBook Pro and we all know the dongle life.

 

[NMBob]

I think about this at least once a week...and I work at a college.

 

[ksec]

Well. With AirPlay2 on Android TV there is a little need for Apple TV. Assuming your TV OS is decent in the first place. LG webOS seems to be doing exceptionally well.

They could have made Apple TV with Router function as little Mesh box.

 

[Khedron]

The new CX and GX LG TVs have ads. Maybe you have an old OLED that didn't have as many? But one screenshot that doesn't show an ad isn't really proof you don't have them. You can see them everywhere on the TV. It's so bad that Rtings has a database detailing the extent of the ad placement on different models and brands.

Try the ring-free apple tv remote. It's so much more intuitive.

If those are ads then the Apple TV has 10 times more

Undeleteable app advertising Fitness+

Undeleteable app advertising Apple Arcade

Music app defaults to ad for Apple Music when opening

TV+ subscription ad in TV app

Multiple streaming services I don’t have, but Apple will take 30% of, in TV app

I’ve never used it without iCloud Photos so I assume the photos app defaults to Apple ads if you don’t already have a subscription

If you scroll down a bit even the TV app shows ads for Apple Music, just in case you missed all the other ones

 

[justin0712]

Every platform I’ve seen (fire, roku, chromcast) have ads.

I don’t think it’s possible to build a better voice assistant because the issue isn’t how well it understands commands but rather the input method for issuing them.

Chromecast with Google TV does not have ads that you speak of.

What it does have is a relevant section based on what you watch and what just premiered new in an app you subscribe to. It does not present shows like FireOS does that you do not have access to without subbing to another service. It does not contain ads in the interface like RokuOS does.

-You can turn off in the flick of a button relevant suggestions to have just a grid of static icons as to what is downloaded.

 

[JWD]

I have no problem spending the cash on a new Apple TV if it WOWS me, this gen2 version did not. I would like to see a stick version for my other outdated 1080p TVs that are kicking around the house. As I upgrade my 4K one, I'll pass along the old ones to the next most important TVs as I do not upgrade them all at once.

 

[2020_Forever]

Headlines like this have meant less and less to me as I've worked in tech (although I'm sure this is the case with any job). There are at least a handful of angry engineers who are unsatisfied with the direction of the product. This is true of pretty much every project with 20+ people working on it. We hear about it when one someone feeel has a friend in the media. I wouldn't expect any major changes soon just because someone decided to leak this story. My guess is Apple doesn't want to commit harder to the smart TV space until they can sell you the display and smart device in one box and be done with it

 

[Sean Henley]

Really wanted to like the new Apple TV, but simply can't understand why the iPad got the M1 and the ATV didn't. Perfect example is Divinity Original Sin 2. Plays great (60 fps) on the new iPad Pro, but not possible on the new ATV.

Felt like a missed opportunity for ~PS4 level graphics capabilities and I would have purchased that particular game on Apple not PS4 (which I did.)

Given the GPU power of the new iPhones, even feels like wouldn't have been that much fragmentation for Apple Arcade to scale across multiple devices and would have been clear to the market that ATV is worth the extra dollars as a streaming box for the extra power.

 

[halfcourtbucket]

i have an amazon 4k firestick and it does what the apple tv box can do but $100+ cheaper.

im not surprised that the engineers are frustrated. theyre literaly being held down by an inferior product.

 

[h00ligan]

Apple's living room hardware strategy remains poorly defined and lacks a coherent vision, with engineers allegedly pessimistic about the product line, according to a new report.

This year the Apple TV got an iterative update with a redesigned Siri Remote, while the HomePod was discontinued. Apple is now said to be developing a combined HomePod-Apple TV device with a built-in screen and FaceTime camera.

In his latest "Power On" newsletter, however, Bloomberg journalist Mark Gurman says that Apple engineers have personally expressed concerns to him about the direction of Apple's living room hardware strategy.

Despite the obvious benefits of an Apple TV for users invested in Apple's ecosystem, Gurman opines that the set-top box is largely failing in a market dominated by cheaper alternatives from the likes of Amazon and Roku, and that Apple needs to introduce a more competitively priced stick-like Apple TV or offer more features if it wants to stay relevant in the living room.

However, "as of now, it's hard to believe that will happen soon," claims Gurman, "especially with Apple engineers telling me that the company doesn't have a strong living room hardware strategy and that there isn't much internal optimism."

Gurman points out that the Apple TV software has gone through more interface redesigns that perhaps any other Apple product, and yet still it has failed to crack the market. Meanwhile, Apple's combined Apple TV-HomePod device remains on schedule for release around 2023.

If that doesn't go well, Gurman suggests "it might be time for Apple to consider putting the Apple TV on the same shelf as other living room products like the iPod HiFi and high-end HomePod."

Article Link: Apple Engineers Reportedly Pessimistic About Apple's Living Room Hardware Strategy

I have two 3rd or 4th gen (can’t rmemeber)appletv set top boxes. I have a fire stick, I have a smart tv. I needed something 4K hdr and bought a shield tv to also serve Plex.

The shield tv is the most overrated POS of the lot. I wish to high hell I bought the atv 4K

The shield lacks basic tv apps in the U.K. the home screen design suck and was recently made worse with nvidia / google taking half the screen for what are basically ads. It has no volume levelling. It has no always on frame rate matching. Oh, it also reports everything to google and leaks location even when using smart dns.

So Apple engineers get your heads up. The appletv is miles ahead of the other premium offerings. I do believe Apple need a fire stick competitor at <70£ but I absolutely think Apple have the best media player- and this is coming from someone who owns the POS all the media heads swear is the best. Not even close.

If anyone in the U.K. wants to trade their unloved atv4k or the shield pro. Hit me up. I can’t wait to get back into the appletv.

 

[4jasontv]

If those are ads then the Apple TV has 10 times more

Undeleteable app advertising Fitness+

Undeleteable app advertising Apple Arcade

Music app defaults to ad for Apple Music when opening

TV+ subscription ad in TV app

Multiple streaming services I don’t have, but Apple will take 30% of, in TV app

I’ve never used it without iCloud Photos so I assume the photos app defaults to Apple ads if you don’t already have a subscription

LG plays ads on top of content.
LG runs video and sound ads in the settings menu.
LG puts content ads in with your existing content.
LG puts ads on your home screen.

Totally different types of ads. At least if you don’t want to use content on the Apple TV you can just hide it. Not an option on a “smart tv”.

 

[ghanwani]

After Apple has shown it’s true colors on privacy, I think it’s time for me to reduce my dependence on their products.

 

[sublunar]

We have older relatives that would KILL for this product so they could much more enjoyably interact with grandkids.

Even on the biggest of iPads, it sucks for older folks.

They would absolutely love love love FaceTime at TV scale.

Great idea too, it's just sorting out the camera that might be the fiddly thing (and would need new AppleTV hardware surely?), plus just how many sales would that equate to for an expensive AppleTV box to make it happen? Seems to me that the recent news stories of the HomePod+AppleTv combination combined with the ultrawide face tracking modes seen in the recent upgrade to the M1 iPads would be a great idea.

You'd suspect that Apple would rather people buy an iPad, especially if that ultra wide face tracking option was on.

I think there might be more justification for pricing AppleTV the way it is if it was a more capable and popular games console. It's way overpriced against various TV sticks or as a way to turn a 'dumb' TV into a smart one - it's vastly overpowered as far as a simple video streaming device.

The A12 CPU should be a decent lower common denominator for games though.

 

[Khedron]

LG plays ads on top of content.
LG runs video and sound ads in the settings menu.
LG puts content ads in with your existing content.
LG puts ads on your home screen.

Totally different types of ads. At least if you don’t want to use content on the Apple TV you can just hide it. Not an option on a “smart tv”.

Which model/s?

I have an LG TV and see none of those things.

The only thing I’ve seen is the extra banner when bringing up the menu. Until I disabled it in the settings (it’s called Home Promotion).

I haven’t found the option to hide the Apple TV ads. How do I get rid of those?

 

[turbineseaplane]

you'd suspect that Apple would rather people buy an iPad, especially if that ultra wide face tracking option was on.

The screen size is the issue

Grandparents want to use their 75" screen and sit on the couch to see their grandkids, etc

 

[4jasontv]

Apple has been trying to crack the living room since 2006.
They tried it with the iPod hi-fi, and that failed for being overpriced.

The iPod hi-fi wasn’t an attempt to crack the living room. It was a very successful technique to increase the MSRP of third party accessories. Apple didn’t give squat about the hi-fi, they just wanted Belkin and other official “made for iPod” companies to charge more for their stuff. It worked. We got premium accessories with premium prices shortly after its launch. The effects of the hi-fi are still being seen every time MR hilights some niche accessory.

 

[coachgq]

There really isn't a benefit to apple tv over any competitors

Screen mirror? The other apps I’ve used for mirroring my phone/iPad to fire stick and Roku always seem to have hiccups.