Apple Escapes Immediate EU Fines, But Penalties Still Likely

[HighwaySnowman]

I'm not denying AT&T was a monopoly, but that is not the point. What we have today would have happened anyway, in another format or course. But I guess in the US we are better being overcharged and underserved by cellular communication, the roots of which started in 1940s.

We're overcharged and underserved because of stupidly lax regulation.

Sprint shouldn't have been allowed to buy Nextel, T-Mobile shouldn't have been allowed to buy Sprint, the baby bells should NEVER have been allowed to re-merge, Verizon shouldn't exist, SBC shouldn't have been allowed to buy AT&T, AT&T shouldn't have been allowed to buy Cingular.

And none of them should have been allowed to buy airwaves, perpetual frequency assignments shouldn't ever have been allowed.

 

[AppliedMicro]

The Commission spokesperson said that any further penalties will only follow a formal analysis of Apple's current conduct

Their current conduct?

Obstinate refusal to comply with regulations and court orders, and choosing the most anticompetitive option at every twist and turn (thereby undermining and defying the objectives of the regulation).

👉 There, I accurately analysed it for you, EU.

 

[AppliedMicro]

In this analogy the App Store = The internet. Apple have sole control over a vast network that brings in hundreds of billions in revenue

$1.3 trillion, by their own admission and the study purposely crafted for them.

 

[I7guy]

$1.3 trillion, by their own admission and the study purposely crafted for them.

It's great that a consumer oriented, for profit company who makes discretionary products can be this popular. Not one person on the face of this earth needs an iphone to live and yet apple rakes it in. It's customers spend, spend spend. And yet one can easily throw away their iphone and buy another. It's wild, just wild.

 

[AppliedMicro]

It's great that a consumer oriented, for profit company who makes discretionary products can be this popular

Absolutely 👍

Not one person on the face of this earth needs an iphone to live and yet apple rakes it in

They need a smartphone - for whose app ecosystem there are only two reasonable choices (a duopoly).

 

[Mousse]

If Apple is ultimately found to remain non-compliant after the Commission's review, it may face periodic penalty payments of up to 5% of its average daily worldwide turnover for each day of continued violation. The DMA also allows for single-instance fines of up to 10% of annual global revenue, doubled for repeat offenses.

Holy 💩! Looks like the EU ain't playing around anymore. No more slap on the wrist fines, they're going for the jugular.😰

 

[I7guy]

Absolutely 👍


They need a smartphone - for whose app ecosystem there are only two reasonable choices (a duopoly).

A smartphone is not life and death. Some people “need “ a smartphone some people don’t. For those who “need” it, can buy it.

Apple, Google and Meta should just pack up and go home. (Even though none would do so)

 

[Jeeve Stubbs]

The European Commission chickens out too?

 

[visualseed]

I won't post it again but AT&T once owned the entire communications infrastructure of the USA and their break-up fostered all sorts of innovations, from cordless telephones to the very open internet we write on.

There were a series of studies on this done 1, 5, 10, and 20 years after the break up and the conclusion was the government realized none of their stated objectives and consumers paid on average 30-40% more for home telephone service and had a measurable decrease in service. This was specifically true for rural customers. Broadband internet was delayed about decade and fragmentation sidelined other innovation as newly independent local operators had no capital or revenue to upgrade and maintain their infrastructure to support it. This is why you had insane local long-distance rates and they nickel-and-dimed you for basic a la carte series like *69, call waiting, and caller ID.

Most of the innovation you cite came after the Telecommunications Act of 1996 where Congress allowed for consolidation of the former baby bells and most of them were immediately bought up which gave them AT&T economies of scale allowing for deployment of broadband and cheap wireless services subsidizing rural areas on urban revenue.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Hmm, no clear reason given for the stay of execution here. Everyone seemed pretty sure that Apple was in violation of the DMA and was practically begging for the EU to give Apple its "much-needed" spanking. 😛

Not trying to be sarcastic here. I can only wonder if this has anything to do with escalating trade tensions between the US and the EU.

It’s likely two fold. And I would not support the second one.

1: the DMA requires assessment to be conducted first. So if Apple complied on the last day they can confirm this let’s say 30 days later.

Just how you send in your work on the last day. It can’t be graded or punished before it’s confirmed.

2: politically related to potentially larger punitive actions that could be taken or might be levied against the U.S. as a response to the unjustified trade war Trump imposed with the insane tariffs.

( this I do not support and hope is not part of it)

 

[Sophisticatednut]

I suspect that if the iPhone was as open as the Mac, it probably wouldn't have been anywhere near as successful as it is today. Just look at the state of android and the google play store today (higher incidence of piracy, malware and less developer support despite having greater market share). It's hard to take a look at that and go "Yeah, that's totally in the best interests of the consumer. Apple should totally copy that..."

Well…. I’m not sure it’s the argument you’re making but the fact Android has a larger market would kind of argue the opposite no?

If iPhones was as open as the Mac it would have had a larger marketshare than Android.

If Mac was as open as windows it would be more successful etc.

And I don’t think that’s what you’re arguing right?

 

[TechWhisperer]

Both parties are in the wrong.

Apple’s tactics for controlling and suppressing competitors, and the unelected EU’s autocratic overreach, border on criminality.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Nobody can make such assumptions by revisionist history. The sheer number of innovations that lucent labs and what came out of what is now bell works in holmdel nj, was game changing for society. Anyway I don't support the dma. I don't care how big apple is, nobody is forced to buy their products and services. They are popular for a reason and it is not due to any act of congress.

Well would you compromise on this part? As a hypothetical.

Let’s say Apple provides the license agreement before you can purchase an iPhone let’s say on the store or in retail.

And/ or the iPhones are rented out such as you’re paying let’s say a monthly payment for 2-10 years or so.

Then Apple would not need to follow the DMA.

But if Apple doesn’t share the contract before the purchase is concluded
And you’re not renting/ paying a monthly fee to own it. Then Apple have to follow the DMA?

A smartphone is not life and death. Some people “need “ a smartphone some people don’t. For those who “need” it, can buy it.

Apple, Google and Meta should just pack up and go home. (Even though none would do so)

It’s our property tho. So life or death isn’t that relevant here. My private property acquired legally

 

[jz0309]

Hmm, no clear reason given for the stay of execution here. Everyone seemed pretty sure that Apple was in violation of the DMA and was practically begging for the EU to give Apple its "much-needed" spanking. 😛

Not trying to be sarcastic here. I can only wonder if this has anything to do with escalating trade tensions between the US and the EU.

THIS! there was a G7 earlier in the week with the EU commissioner and POTUS in attendance, at least for a brief while ...

 

[deathcab]

If Apple is ultimately found to remain non-compliant after the Commission's review, it may face periodic penalty payments of up to 5% of its average daily worldwide turnover for each day of continued violation. The DMA also allows for single-instance fines of up to 10% of annual global revenue, doubled for repeat offenses.

No matter how you feel about the DMA & the EU's enforcement of it, fining a company based on worldwide revenue for alleged violations of rules that apply only to countries within that block just feels like government overreach.

To me, it seems like a more appropriate penalty would be revenue from the block where the rules apply (i.e., the EU) and if the intent is simply to be punitive then you could still reach that point by increasing the percentage (i.e., 100%, 200%, 300%, 500% etc. of daily revenue generated from the EU).

Sure, it's semantics because they could easily get to the same result (in terms of dollar amount of any fines imposed) using the criteria I suggested above, but it just feels less like over reach if the penalty is tied to the places where the rules apply.

 

[jz0309]

A smartphone is not life and death. Some people “need “ a smartphone some people don’t. For those who “need” it, can buy it.

100%, smartphones are in existence for not even 20 years yet we are told they are a "utility" to be able to function ...
insane, I really don't understand how people could do anything pre-2007ish ...

 

[Stuwil]

Doesn’t matter what Apple does. There will always be way to determine Apple is not j compliance with some part of its ecosystem.

If apple as a company are using certain business practices that is deemed irregular then of course they deserve to get looked into

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Both parties are in the wrong.

Apple’s tactics for controlling and suppressing competitors, and the unelected EU’s autocratic overreach, border on criminality.

They are elected and accountable. Read up on it.

• EU Parliament = directly elected by EU citizens every 5 years
• President of the EU Parliament = elected by Members of the European Parliament (MEPs)
• EU Commission President = nominated by elected EU leaders (European Council), then elected by the European Parliament
• EU Commissioners = nominated by elected national governments, then approved by the European Parliament
• EU Council = composed of elected Heads of State or Government from each Member State
• Council of the EU (Council of Ministers) = composed of ministers from national governments, which are elected in their home countries

All major EU institutions are either directly elected (like the Parliament) or composed of officials accountable to elected national governments. The Commission can be dismissed by the elected Parliament, and its President must be approved by it. The EU is complex, but not “unelected” or autocratic.

It’s a parliamentary system.

 

[Stuwil]

100%, smartphones are in existence for not even 20 years yet we are told they are a "utility" to be able to function ...
insane, I really don't understand how people could do anything pre-2007ish ...

Because time moves on and things change as time goes on like things relevant in the 1940’s where not relevant in the 1960’s

 

[I7guy]

If apple as a company are using certain business practices that is deemed irregular then of course they deserve to get looked into

Just like google got looked into and just like meta got looked into. Companies get scrutinized but sometimes the scrutiny goes somewhere and sometimes it doesn't.

 

[jz0309]

Because time moves on and things change as time goes on like things relevant in the 1940’s where not relevant in the 1960’s

by that logic, smartphones probably won't be relevant in the 2040s ...
I actually agree with that, technology will have moved beyond that form factor in 20 years ...

 

[I7guy]

Because time moves on and things change as time goes on like things relevant in the 1940’s where not relevant in the 1960’s

There are many active laws from 60 to 70 years ago that are still relevant. Things that happened in the past are still relevant.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Denying the importance of smartphones and referring to 20+ year old outdated concepts of how things work in society and the economy is a recurring theme in these discussions.

• "But sellers or distributors of physical software had x percent margin (20 years ago)"
• "It's not needed to survive, therefore it isn't really important or needed"
• "McDonald's isn't required to sell Whoppers either..."

 

[jz0309]

Denying the importance of smartphones and referring to 20+ year old outdated concepts of how things work in society and the economy is a recurring theme in these discussions.

• "But sellers or distributors of physical software had x percent margin (20 years ago)"
• "It's not needed to survive, therefore it isn't really important or needed"
• "McDonald's isn't required to sell Whoppers either..."

and from a technology perspective smartphones will be outdates in 20 years, there will be another form factor ... yet regulating today's technology to the extent it is driven in the EU will make sure that smartphones will still be relevant for society in 20 years when they really shouldn't be ...

 

[I7guy]

There may be some misconceptions in this thread on how society functions.