Apple Europe and Cinema Displays BEWARE
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iGary
Guest
cinemafraud said:
Your English is fine. Some native English speakers don't write or speak as well.
Here's my issue with your complaint:
Yes, getting and old spec monitor when you paid for a "new" one is bad - my point is most people couldnt' tell the difference anyway. If someone is doing SWAP work, prepress, digital imaging...OK. Joe Blow customer can't tell - doesn't make it right, but you get my drift.
Pink hue, backlight issues and ghosting ARE NOT I repeat ARE NOT specific to the old specification monitors. Those are common LCD issues, old or new, and if really bad, then the monitor is defective and should be returned.
Seems to me, your argument is "I got an old specification monitor and that's why it's defective, If they had sold me a new one, it would work perectly."
Your logic is fracked.
Take the refund, get a new monitor, or swap what you have for a new one and fix yourself a cocktail. Seems like a lot of trouble for nothing on your part - Web site, trolling threads for people wih issues...
I went through 4 ACD's before I got a good copy.
cinemafraud
macrumors member
I suspect they don't have 20" or 23" mid 2006 ACD to deliver for Europeans. I think I will call them again next week and will ask this specific question.
Thanks for your english language comments. My argument actually is "I noticed Apple sold me a monitor that's not within announced specifications" so I call Customer Support and all I get is "yeah, it was a mistake and we only offer a refund".
Since it was the second time and I didn't really wanted to go the "refund, 2 weeks to get the money, order cinema, 1 week to deliver and being about one month without a display" way I went to Customer Protection office and filled a complaint with all the required information and invoices. Apple must send a response within 30 days. In the meanwhile I took care to setup a website to see if I was running a isolate case and in less than 48 hours I get two extra reports. I'm curious to see how many people may be affected in a week.
cinemafraud
macrumors member
A brief update. I finally, and thanks to this forum, realized that the model in my invoce was M9178ZM/A which meets Late 2005 specs.
Don't believe it? Okay, http://www.cinemafraud.com/invoice.jpg
I hope Apple considers to exchange this model for M9178LL/A which actually MUST be the one that should be sending to his customers.
Will call Apple next week. This is seriously messed up.
Don't believe it? Okay, http://www.cinemafraud.com/invoice.jpg
I hope Apple considers to exchange this model for M9178LL/A which actually MUST be the one that should be sending to his customers.
Will call Apple next week. This is seriously messed up.
Markleshark
macrumors 603
Problem you have is, Apple offered you a refund. Now its not their fault your not willing to take that. They have explained they are not selling the monitors in Europe to you (Or thats what I believe) so I doubt your fraud accusations will get very far... You'll scream fraud, Apple will scream mistake... They offered you a refund, it was your choice not to take it.
It's taken a lot of people a lot of expensive lawsuits to still not have realized thats in extreme cases only does the little man win against the global company. It really isnt worth it, there is a large chance Apple will comment no further other than to offer you a refund, you don't take it again... Tough.
It's taken a lot of people a lot of expensive lawsuits to still not have realized thats in extreme cases only does the little man win against the global company. It really isnt worth it, there is a large chance Apple will comment no further other than to offer you a refund, you don't take it again... Tough.
cinemafraud
macrumors member
What? It's THEIR fault. Period.
I bought an advertised ACD M9178LL/A and I get a M9178ZM/A model. Twice. It's a fraud.
This "mistake" should be investigated and sanctioned. Such behaviour lacks of ANY ethics. Way too many people may have been defrauded by Apple and I bet they don't even know.
What's next? New Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro with Core Duo processors?
I bought an advertised ACD M9178LL/A and I get a M9178ZM/A model. Twice. It's a fraud.
This "mistake" should be investigated and sanctioned. Such behaviour lacks of ANY ethics. Way too many people may have been defrauded by Apple and I bet they don't even know.
What's next? New Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro with Core Duo processors?
cinemafraud
macrumors member
Now try this: go to Apple Store UK and add a 23" ACD to basket.
Before checkout, you should get the following data.
Can you see how ZM/A or LL/A are not under product reference? Me neither, but however it was stated in the invoice.
Now try the same in US Store. Yes, LL/A actually appears correctly.
Seriously, what's going on? I have checked and happens on Spain, Finland and French stores as well. I'm amazed that things like this doesn't make it to the front news page.
Before checkout, you should get the following data.
Can you see how ZM/A or LL/A are not under product reference? Me neither, but however it was stated in the invoice.
Now try the same in US Store. Yes, LL/A actually appears correctly.
Seriously, what's going on? I have checked and happens on Spain, Finland and French stores as well. I'm amazed that things like this doesn't make it to the front news page.
ViveLeLivre
macrumors regular
skunk said:
That is pretty sneaky. It's only listed as an M9178 overseas, but here in the states it's listed as a M9178LL/A. So that gives them the umbrella excuse.
Still, you can't label a 23" Etch-a-Sketch an M9178 and sell it. Legally, the specs should match.
I'd be a little pissed too.
It doesn't matter that they're using wildcards in the model number. It's not an umbrella excuse if the specifications on Apple's Spain website still list the updated specs.
There are no excuses here. This isn't a tough-cookie situation. It's outright false advertising if Apple refuses to replace the unit.
There are no excuses here. This isn't a tough-cookie situation. It's outright false advertising if Apple refuses to replace the unit.
Attachments
Dreadnought
macrumors 68020
I have the same with an Apple reseller. Bought an 23"ACD and gotten the old model, while I explicitly asked for a new version and in my email to the salesrep mentioned the updated specs. The display is returned now and I am waiting for about 3 weeks on a new one.
I have found out the same tings, ZM/A is the old version and only the product number without the letters is mentioned here in Europe, but Apple does has the new specs mentioned on their website. There are a couple of threads in the Mac Peripherals section about this, with a lot more people that are complaining about this and how we can identify a newer version display.
I have found out the same tings, ZM/A is the old version and only the product number without the letters is mentioned here in Europe, but Apple does has the new specs mentioned on their website. There are a couple of threads in the Mac Peripherals section about this, with a lot more people that are complaining about this and how we can identify a newer version display.
j26
macrumors 68000
Read your T & C
I just had a look at the Irish stores terms & conditions for sale. I'm sure the Spanish one is similar, but you might have a look.
Sales Terms & Conditions
Have a look at your order confirmation. Condition 3 binds them to ship what was on your order confirmation subject to the other conditions. The order confirmation is the acceptance of your order and the contract comes into existence at that point.
Condition 2.6 requires them to contact you to make arrangements for an alternative product or a refund if they cannot source the actual product.
Condition 2.7 says that the information on the website is not the basis of the contract, but it is your offer and their acceptance that matters.
Based on what you've said it seems that Apple may be in breach of the contract if the order confirmation specified the newer specced model. They failed to deliver it and in breach of their own conditions they didn't contact you to arrange for an alternative.
The order confirmation is the key in this.
This is of course aside from the misleading advertising issue.
PS. Have you tried telling them you'll contact the media about false advertising?
I just had a look at the Irish stores terms & conditions for sale. I'm sure the Spanish one is similar, but you might have a look.
Sales Terms & Conditions
Have a look at your order confirmation. Condition 3 binds them to ship what was on your order confirmation subject to the other conditions. The order confirmation is the acceptance of your order and the contract comes into existence at that point.
Condition 2.6 requires them to contact you to make arrangements for an alternative product or a refund if they cannot source the actual product.
Condition 2.7 says that the information on the website is not the basis of the contract, but it is your offer and their acceptance that matters.
Based on what you've said it seems that Apple may be in breach of the contract if the order confirmation specified the newer specced model. They failed to deliver it and in breach of their own conditions they didn't contact you to arrange for an alternative.
The order confirmation is the key in this.
This is of course aside from the misleading advertising issue.
PS. Have you tried telling them you'll contact the media about false advertising?
crap freakboy
macrumors 6502a
If his invoice says new model but the item delivered is the old one then I'm sure he is well within his rights to complain and get what he paid for.
Regarding the refund, well thats his choice.
I'd say good on him for alerting as many people as possible to Apple Corps attempts to dump old stock as new. Its dirty business practice imo.
What is more shocking to me is the 14ms response time.
Regarding the refund, well thats his choice.
I'd say good on him for alerting as many people as possible to Apple Corps attempts to dump old stock as new. Its dirty business practice imo.
What is more shocking to me is the 14ms response time.
cinemafraud
macrumors member
At least under Spanish laws, the advertised model is part of the contract. If they don't have it they shouldn't be sending another one who has inferior specifications. Twice in my case.j26 said:
Not yet, I have to call them again next week.
Abstract
macrumors Penryn
cinemafraud said:
How is this faster than just taking the full refund and buying another Apple display?
Apple offered you a full refund. You decided not to take it and keep the monitor instead. You just told Apple that they sent you a monitor with the wrong specs, and it's OK. You told them that you'd rather keep the monitor they sent you rather than take the refund and lose the monitor they sent you.
I understand why you're frustrated, but Apple doesn't even ship the new version of the monitor to Europe. I think you're going to have a hard time convincing to ship one monitor to Europe, and then giving it to you. You can inform them that their advertised product specs are wrong in your country. Maybe you'd get to keep the one you have now for free.
I don't know. The only thing I can think right now is that turning down the refund may not have been the best choice, but maybe I'm wrong.
j26
macrumors 68000
Abstract said:
No s/he didn't. S/he said that refund was an insufficient remedy. That's not a waiver of his/her rights under the contract. There's a big difference.
Personally I would take the refund and make a complaint to the Consumer Protection Agency, but cinemafraud has the right to demand performance of the contract if s/he so wishes.
cinemafraud
macrumors member
A receplacement usually takes a few days and a refund 2 weeks for the wire transfer + 1 week to send, deliver the ACD to Apple and verify it's OK. It worked the first time but not now, I'm too upset to allow Apple do whatever they want using misleading advertising.
Refund way: In the meanwhile I will not have my money nor a screen replacement available. I prefer to keep it until they agree to replace it for the Mid 2006 model. I think it's not about being faster. It's about doing things right.
This situation is so wrong that I have taken action and setup a information web site. Let's face it, it's not right for us european people. If Apple doesn't deliver new models to Europe they shouldn't be advertising them on their EU stores.
Hello, I'm from Belgium and I just ordered a 23" ACD.
The ACD is advertised at www.apple.be as 23-inch Apple Cinema HD Display M9178*/A.
I have received an order confirmation wich states I ordered M9178ZM/A Apple Cinema HD Display.
So I guess I also have an older model. But can someone tell me what the difference is between the old model and new?
The ACD is advertised at www.apple.be as 23-inch Apple Cinema HD Display M9178*/A.
I have received an order confirmation wich states I ordered M9178ZM/A Apple Cinema HD Display.
So I guess I also have an older model. But can someone tell me what the difference is between the old model and new?
cinemafraud
macrumors member
It's late 2005 model. I can update my web site once you receive Apple's printed invoice with the serial number and model date stated.vinylator said:
Late 2005: http://support.apple.com/specs/displays/Apple_Cinema_Display_20_23_30_inch_DVI.html
Mid 2006: http://www.apple.com/befr/displays/specs.html
I think we have yet another case of misleading advertising, this time at Apple.be. I'd recommend you to report the case to your nearest Consumer Office once you have printed invoces as evidence.
cinemafraud
macrumors member
A brief update regarding model numbers and models from a new e-mail I have received:
Dreadnought
macrumors 68020
First of all, its productnumber. The productnumber of the alu displays haven't changed since its introduction in 2004. The only thing that changes are the two letters behind the 4 productnumbers. And the US (LL) and Europe (ZM) story, I don't buy it. There was one person here on MacRumors that exchanged his ACD in an English Apple Store for a LL version. So, the LL version does come to Europe, but only in a very small supply. Apple probably still is getting rid of the old inventory.skunk said:
Dreadnought said:
I think what Apple says about this might actually be true. Look at the Australian webpage for the ACDs, there the model number is M9178X/A, so it's X instead of ZM or LL. And Australia does happen to have a different power supply than the US and Europe, so the letters might really stand for power supply.
Although I'd love to be corrected because there should be some d*** way to separate the new ACDs from the old ones
EDIT: I just realized, that in the German Apple Store at least, the Ending is now * instead of ZM. Additionally, I compared model numbers for the Macbook and there again it's LL in the US, * in Germany and X in Australia, so that seems to be Apple's naming scheme for power supplies.