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I know that once people have burned their music to a CD, they could just pop that CD back in and rip the tracks into plain MP3 format, but certainly that is no different (or worse for record companies) than buying a CD and ripping it. Maybe they have some way of dgitally marking the a CD that has tunes that were downloaded from their service so that iTunes won't let you rip it. Maybe each track, when ripped to AIFF form, will have a little noninterfering code that tells iTunes (and the whatever the software that Windows eventually has as its equivalent for the apple music service), not to rip it. Even then, though, there'd be a way to work around it (there always is). This would also not stop a person from burning two copies of a song onto a CD - that is, share their music with friends, but this would be no different from the way people copied tapes... it would not be possible to share songs in KaZaA which I think is the hitch that the record companies are caught up on. Once again, I would not have a problem with this format. It would allow me to do whatever i want with the music... I just couldn't give it away to an absolute stranger.
 
Originally posted by mim
What's 10am Pacific Time in relation to GMT?

It feels like I'm going to have to wait, like, 3 more days for it to be the 28th over there in the states :D

And they think Australian's are backwards! At least they live 10 hours in the future!
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Yeah, its on at 3am tues morning in adelaide. I got Uni the next day, so i guess ill just have to check macrumors when i get up!
 
Originally posted by BaghdadBob
Rhapsody? Wasn't that the code-name for some fantastical Apple project to unite all operating systems or something?
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Uhm rhapsody is OSX, well 5+ years and many, many changes later.
 
Originally posted by Flowbee
Interesting that there has been little speculation about what the *name* of this new service will be. I guess we'll know soon enough.:)
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I wouldn't be suprised if it was just billed as a function of iTunes, and may not have a name other than "that download thing in iTunes". At least that's how I see it being used - you listen to your music through iTunes, decide you want to check out new stuff, browse for new music via iTunes, stream some samples, and click on the ones you want. It would be more complex if it was presented as a separate app or web service.

I wonder if that means that there will be iTunes for PC now? Or will PC users be excluded?
 
Originally posted by mim
What's 10am Pacific Time in relation to GMT?

It feels like I'm going to have to wait, like, 3 more days for it to be the 28th over there in the states :D

And they think Australian's are backwards! At least they live 10 hours in the future!
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Originally posted by punter
What's 10am Pacific Time in relation to GMT?

I think Pacific time is -8 GMT.
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10 AM PDT = 5 PM GMT

Pacific daylight time is -7 GMT

;)
 
You know, I have a slight issue with DRM. I am one of the honest ones. Once I've bought something, I like to have the freedom to do what I want and need to do with it, without needing to look for work arounds.

I have a couple of songs that I've downloaded, that I would have willingly paid a buck each for. The only reason that I downloaded them is because I wanted to know if they were worth my interest. The only reason I didn't go out and spend the $12 for the CD that the songs were on was because I concluded that the other songs on the CD weren't worth it.

All of that said, if, once I download a music file (paid for and downloaded through the Apple service), I cannot do things like copy it to another computer in my home (suppose it's my wife's computer, and she has a separate Apple ID than I have, will she be unable to use the file?), or burn a disc, and then rip it back (if I had a computer crash, I'd like to have a way of getting the music back onto my computer), then I'll be very reluctant to use the service. I might buy one or two songs, but, in general, I'd rather buy the CD and have the freedom to do as I see fit.
 
Originally posted by Snowy_River
...I might buy one or two songs, but, in general, I'd rather buy the CD and have the freedom to do as I see fit.
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Apple must have convinced the copyright holders that owning a cd, and having DRM'd music files on a computer are no different really. All those mp3 on the net came from CD's originally.

I suspect the original AAC files will have reasonable restrictions. But you'll be able to burn them to CD, and then do what you want from there. So, it's no-more uncontrollable in terms of copyright loss than CD piracy, but competes with p2p networks in terms of convinence (and probably betters them with available range of music if they've got independent labels on too...).
 
Speaking of the Financial Times, what's up with everything underlining when you mouseover? Is that just me, or Safari, or was the Born-on-Date on my Budweiser horribly inaccurate???

Oh, and what's the difference between PST and Pacific Daylight Time (that means you, Snowy, you smartass...) is that unadjusted for Daylight Savings or what?

Oh, and all you people who think you should be able to use something freely for your own use once you've bought it...do NOT buy Intuit's tax software....*shudder*
 
Originally posted by mim
So, it's no-more uncontrollable in terms of copyright loss than CD piracy, but competes with p2p networks in terms of convinence (and probably betters them with available range of music if they've got independent labels on too...).
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i'm in the minority, but this is a key for me. independant labels put out 95-100% of the music i listen to (and 100% of the music i buy). if they aren't involved the service is useless to me.

most rumors indicate that you can burn to cd, and once you do that (cda files contain no DRM) you're free to do what you want with the music (including covert to mp3, for those of us with car mp3 cd players). the service can definately compete with p2p for these simple reasons:

1. garunteed download speeds
2. garunteed bitrates
3. garunteed availability

the three things that annoy most p2p users, i would say. if something happened that forced me to need an n'sync song, i'd like the fact i could use apple's site, download it at 90 kbps, have it at a 190 bitrate, make a cd out of it. seems fair, easy and fast.
 
Originally posted by mim
I wouldn't be suprised if it was just billed as a function of iTunes, and may not have a name other than "that download thing in iTunes". At least that's how I see it being used - you listen to your music through iTunes, decide you want to check out new stuff, browse for new music via iTunes, stream some samples, and click on the ones you want. It would be more complex if it was presented as a separate app or web service.

I wonder if that means that there will be iTunes for PC now? Or will PC users be excluded?
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does anyone smell iTunes 4 or perhaps an iTunes update in the near future? why wouldn't this new service be integrated or incorporated into iTunes; it wouldn't make sense for it not to be (at least to Apple's standards).
 
webcast

Fortunately, I have an hour break from 1pm to 2pm. I can check out the webcast right after class
biggrin.gif
 
Originally posted by Snowy_River
You know, I have a slight issue with DRM. I am one of the honest ones. Once I've bought something, I like to have the freedom to do what I want and need to do with it, without needing to look for work arounds.

I have a couple of songs that I've downloaded, that I would have willingly paid a buck each for. The only reason that I downloaded them is because I wanted to know if they were worth my interest. The only reason I didn't go out and spend the $12 for the CD that the songs were on was because I concluded that the other songs on the CD weren't worth it.

All of that said, if, once I download a music file (paid for and downloaded through the Apple service), I cannot do things like copy it to another computer in my home (suppose it's my wife's computer, and she has a separate Apple ID than I have, will she be unable to use the file?), or burn a disc, and then rip it back (if I had a computer crash, I'd like to have a way of getting the music back onto my computer), then I'll be very reluctant to use the service. I might buy one or two songs, but, in general, I'd rather buy the CD and have the freedom to do as I see fit.
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if the service works similarly to the audible.com service, you will be able to register one account to up to 2 computers (at least 2, it might be 3). Once you buy a song, that song will remain in your library and you may download it as many times as you please. If your computer crashes or you delete the song for whatever reason, you could redownload it. The 2 different versions of iTunes, however, would be the only two computers you could play the song on. You could then burn the song from either of those computers to a CD, put it on any iPod that is plugged into it, etc. You, however, would not be able to simply drag it into your shared folder for Acquisition (or KaZaA or whatever), and share it with the rest of the world because the rest of the world would not have a copy of iTunes that is registered under your account. For me, this seems fair. It gives the user a lot of options with their music, while still preventing them from easily sharing it with 10 million KaZaA users. It is definitely more dynamic than CDs were before MP3 ripping hit the mainstream. It definitely seems to me like a fair compromise.
max
 
trebblekicked: you've got it exactly right.

The problem is that for total domination of the market, they need the big 5. And to be fair, a lot of smaller obscure lables are distributed by Sony, for example. You'd be suprised.

But you're right, if they don't have atleast the biggest inde labels on, they'll probably alienate a huge percentage of Mac users. It's like how >everyone< quotes "Apple has 3% of the market...". That's fine, but how many of that other 97% are internet capable, can burn CD's, etc etc. Percentages lie. I'm sure inde lables have something like 3% of the music market. But I'd be it's more like 20-30% for mac users, who lets face it, are a more discriminating customer than Joe Blow (I just made those numbers up btw, don't quote them).

This will be really important in Europe...even in just the UK. Huge amounts of music are released by UK labels like Ninja Tunes, Skint and Warp. Big selling bands are on French labels like F-Comm. They really need to be going to these people, not waiting for them to come to Apple. Otherwise it won't fly.
 
Originally posted by pianojoe
I love that part in the Financial Times atricle where they call MacOS a "proprietary" operating system (apparently, as opposed to Windows.)
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Windows is more open than MacOS is one (and I think in this respect important) way. You can install Windows on almost any x86 PC. You can only install MacOS on a Mac.
 
Originally posted by BaghdadBob
That's correct (if you're in PST...look down, it says down there in the blue part at the bottom)...
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Be aware, the time in the blue panel at the bottom of the thread-posts is not GMT as it professes. As I pointed out in another thread this time is, in fact, BST (British Summer Time) - the current time in London, which is GMT +1.

Therefore if you are using the MR clock, be sure to recalibrate yourself or you may be a whole hour late :eek: or early :mad: depending on where you are.

Can't wait though.

- p
 
mim-
i certainly agree. the service would need matador/merge/touch n' go/jeepster ect to get me interested, but even then, i'd just as soon order a cd from the label site. most indie cd's can be ordered direct for less than $12 USD per.

the international music thing is important too. this could be a way for me to check out the good new stuff from yr side of the pond w/o paying $22 USD for a cd (and vice versa). how do UK indie labels with no US distro fit in? these details seem small now, but they are important. just ask anyone who runs a record store.
 
Originally posted by mim
trebblekicked: you've got it exactly right.

The problem is that for total domination of the market, they need the big 5. And to be fair, a lot of smaller obscure lables are distributed by Sony, for example. You'd be suprised.

But you're right, if they don't have atleast the biggest inde labels on, they'll probably alienate a huge percentage of Mac users. It's like how >everyone< quotes "Apple has 3% of the market...". That's fine, but how many of that other 97% are internet capable, can burn CD's, etc etc. Percentages lie. I'm sure inde lables have something like 3% of the music market. But I'd be it's more like 20-30% for mac users, who lets face it, are a more discriminating customer than Joe Blow (I just made those numbers up btw, don't quote them).

This will be really important in Europe...even in just the UK. Huge amounts of music are released by UK labels like Ninja Tunes, Skint and Warp. Big selling bands are on French labels like F-Comm. They really need to be going to these people, not waiting for them to come to Apple. Otherwise it won't fly.
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I disagree with your percentages. I'd say maybe 30% of the macusers likely to post on a site like this listen to more indie stuff, but the mac hits four main markets: families, students, schools and creative professionals. Of those four markets, I'd say the family market is the one that apple needs to concentrate most on. They have the most money. They are the least computer saavy, and because of this, they are the least likely to use a service like KaZaA. They are looking for something that is easy to use, almost falls right into their laps (they don't have to seek it out... they can pretty much watch an ad for it then go right to it on their computer without any learning curve), and they are the ones whose acceptance would push the media to portray and accept this kind of service as something that is real... they would cover it and treat it like something that "people use". This service obviously doesn't make much sense for schools - computer labs. Although some students might listen to indie type stuff, they are probably, person for person, the biggest supporters of big record companies. Maybe the biggest drop-off in record sales has come as a result of the increasing computer saaviness of the college student, so that market probably has the largest potential. If apple can get its student users to drop .99 cents for a song because suddenly that is more convenient than KaZaA (which, for a computer saavy student, is more convenient then going out and wasting $15 on a CD where only 3 tracks are good). The graphics professionals are a smaller market in that they don't necessarily spend a huge amount on music, nor are they particularly central to the audience that the media concentrates on (families). They too, however, are computer saavy, and appreciate the convenience of sitting at home and choosing, track-by-track, the songs that they want, without having to spend on a whole CD. I think there's a huge potential for this kind of service. Nothing like it has ever been done before. The other music services were, if anything, less convenient than KaZaA. They don't have the reputation that Apple has (trustworthiness). They aren't integrated in any way into an operating system or "digital hub". And very few people ever are going to make the effort to explore them when KaZaA is free and doesn't have any DRM limitations. They had no diversity to their service - they couldn't integrate into iTunes. They was no incentive for people to make the effort to experiment with them. Apple will push this service with advertising and will make it as easy as pie to experiment with.
 
Name: iTrax

I predict that the service will be named iTrax.

AAC is necessary for quality, therefore a new iTunes... and new iPods too.
 
What do you guys think the chances are that the music service will be available to Europe too?? A few weeks ago there was a leak of information about the service, attributed to a european apple executive. I took this as a good sign that the service will be available here too...but now I am not so sure! I start dreading the announcement! Any of you can bring me some comforting news? :eek:
 
Originally posted by trebblekicked
mim-
this could be a way for me to check out the good new stuff from yr side of the pond w/o paying $22 USD for a cd (and vice versa). how do UK indie labels with no US distro fit in? these details seem small now, but they are important. just ask anyone who runs a record store.
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Yup - I'm hoping this does for music what Amazon has done for 2nd hand book shopping. I mean I can order a second hand rare out of print book that comes from some tiny Alaskan outpost store through Amazon, and have it arive in Australia in 5 days? Alien technology for sure. I'm looking forward to being able to see what music people with similar tastes to me listen to. You know..."if you liked this, check this out" type thing. And then download it instantly.

At the moment, I think most UK labels sell to the US if you buy from the web sites. Which is funny, seeing as a number of now-well-known inde artists (say from Detriot) get their first releases on Warp, get picked up by London DJ's, and then exported back to the US. The music service could open whole new markets for these guys, and re-invigorate the mainstream music scene.

Talking about dj's - I have no idea why I still can't use the iPod scroll wheel as an input to help beat mix tracks. Or two iPods together. Let people program the 'pods Apple, damnit!
 
Re: Re: Re: just a question...

Originally posted by baby duck monge
i suppose that makes enough sense, especially since they are not having a webcast of it. still, i just expected there would be some sort of official recognition of things to come on their splash page.

oh well, they are an odd company, and i guess i should not expect them to always do the expected...
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I switched a year ago and have learned most of what Apple does is unexpected. That's what keeps people sitting on the edge of their seats, and unfortunately, I'm one of them :)

A year from now, Apple is going to be known as the company that changed how you purchase and listen to music.
 
KazAa comparison

To say that KazAa is an advanced users program is simply not true..i know people that ONLY use KazAa to open files that they dl'ed...infact they listen to music through KazAa and open other programs like it was their finder.
KazAa is stupid easy to use. I still see ppl using KazAa over Apple's service.
 
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