Apple Event: September 5th, 2007

[ezekielrage_99]

My prediction is a G5 Widescreen iPod Touch, the G5 Powerbook rumors are just plain silly now.....

 

[tartempion]

Coverflow not so useless

Does anyone actually use coverflow? It's a cool show-off feature but not very practical.

Wrong! My 4 years old boy really loves it !!!

 

[JGowan]

Does anyone else think that "The beat goes on" is a not so veiled reference to a one more thing... with the Beatles catalog going on itunes?

I TOTALLY THINK YOU'RE RIGHT!!

"THE BEATLES GO ON (ITUNES)"! And with Ringo going on iTunes, I am just about sure. Perhaps George hasn't gone on because he's on a label that's not playing ball with Apple.

New Cinema Displays! C'mon Jobs, it's been since 1994.

While I share your angst, "The Beat Goes On" and Coverflow Album Art does not quite say "Cinema Displays" to me. But what do I know?

Interesting that Apple keeps pushing coverflow, when album covers are more irrelevant than ever...

I have to completely disagree with you on this. I think the iPod is the perfect venue for Coverflow. While you might use the list view initially to find the artist you want to hear, I think that it would become so perfectly normal to simply go horizontal with the unit to find the next album you want to listen to if it's more of the same person/group. Just a touch to the left or the right and you've got the next album.

 

[dan-o-mac]

Finally: NEWS!!! A number of us have been hovering around these boards for the past week (for some, probably much longer, sigh…), and a good debate sort of fleshed out the thinking on the new ipods. Now that we know that there will be new ipods, and that they will almost certainly include a widescreen ipod, I though I would post the fruits of our debate for the many whom have not seen them. What follows below are not really my ideas, but just me reorganizing them all together (so thanks to everyone who posted on the earlier threads in the past week). I APPOLOGIZE for those who have already read this, I just wanted to keep it updated (I'm not trying to spam or anything, i guess I just don't know when to shut u...)

I just want to build on these ideas and go through a quick logical analysis on the product line as it might stand, so bear with me.
(sorry for the length, but there’s a lot to cover)

Assumptions
First, there are some important assumptions that can be helpful in narrowing down the options:
a) Ipod have always gotten unequivocally better than their previous versions. In every new generation, there has Always been models that loose nothing (really significant) from previous models. The only possible exception would be the mini diehards, but the nano proved to be a positive upgrade in all respects, with a smaller size, eventually greater capacity, and better battery life with flash memory. What Apple wants to avoid is making someone want to buy (other than for sentimentality) a previous version, and they have been successful.

b) Because of the above point, they are unlikely to do the following
i. Not include a HDD ipod. The highest conceivable flash-memory based ipod would have 32 gigs, and could pay a premium for that. Many people use up all of their 60 and 80 gig ipods, so not including one of the same or larger size would make a previous generation (and 5.0) superior in a significant way.
ii.Get rid of the small form factor of the nano. Unless the pictures have the scale wrong (maybe the click wheel isn’t the part that stays the same size, but the width, and its just a shorter nano but not wider???), they would be getting rid of the best selling Ipod ever, and not with a compatible version. The nano fills a huge niche: people who want to listen to some (not dozens of gigs) of music. Its cheap, small, and easy, and would remain popular even after it was discontinued. The nano, or some small and cheap heir, must remain.

c) Ignore the niche of the shuffle. It’s cheap, there are some people who love its size and functions, so why get rid of it? I don’t think than anyone is suspecting that, so we have another model.


Models
Let’s regroup. We have, at this point, two models that seem stupid to kill because there is nothing more to add (i.e. a larger screen, or a screen period) that wouldn’t come at the cost of what defines the Nano or shuffle (size, randomness). So we have:


1) SHUFFLE. While they may want to keep from having too many versions (like sandisk or creative, that make things complicated), there is no reason not to add a 4gb version, keep the 2gb version, and maybe have a 1gb version, with a subsequent price shift. Other devices are catching up and are cheaper, so apple may have to pull some muscle here.

2) NANO. While its hard to see them discontinuing it, it is also difficult to predict what they will do to differentiate it. Video (on the current sized pod) seems pointless (especially if the stubby comes to pass), and while a 16 gb version may be in the works, one would expect something more. Shorter pod? Longer screen? It’s impossible to tell without knowing the other models (or having a source).

3) TOUCH/WIDESCREEN. OK, now we KNOW there will be a widescreen. The current ipod video is primarily 2 years old. While a stubby (get to that later) could be in the works, that would be a pathetic upgrade to span 3 years of ipods, and by next fall, Apple would be significantly behind other companies. WI-FI would be nearly pointless (read Zune) on a click-wheel/small screen ipod, and so (baring Apple coming up with a new technology completely, like mind reading) widescreen is the first step (unless Steve thinks everyone loves coverflow enough to make it the only 6g advance, after which there would be a revolt). At this point, if they have OS X, then why not include multi-touch? While the click-wheel is sentimental (maybe have it as a virtual option), its in the past.

---Also, this is likely where a HDD would come in. While a “stubby” could have a hard drive, the primary use for the larger hard drives would be to include some video, which would go perfectly with a widescreen. Maybe they’ll have flash for frequently played songs (or loading current playlists before turning off the hard drive temporarily), and maybe they’ll have a flash-only version (although that could be too many models for Apple), but you can bet on a Widescreen, hard drive ipod with multi-touch.

---Wi-FI? I would love it, as my home and work all have WI-FI, so I could always be connected. THIS IS THE CENTRAL QUESTION. This has been a hotly debated topic, and it is hard to predict with the Iphone in the mix. That said, it was ApplePi at Appleinsider that made the most compelling argument. If the video has a Hard Drive (or at least 16 or 32 gigs of Flash) as it must for a video niche device, than it would far surpass the iphone in that regard. While some people would likely buy both, it is hard to see the iphone taking second place to an ipod at this time, as the ipod would only be lacking phone capability. Remember the January Keynote when Steve said there were three devices, for now, I think we can expect the Ipod (although we can still hope) to stay in its niche and let the iphone take all three. In a year or so, things may be different. Hopefully, even without internet and mail, the ipod will have calendar and pda capabilities (and why not?, its only software), as it will certainly have photos. It would, however, be interesting to see with AppleTV.

---If we’re lucky, though, it could have Bluetooth for synching to computers, each other, and most of all, headphones. This could open hacking for browsing the internet through ones Bluetooth enabled computer (many PDAs do this). The downside: its slow (although they DO use EDGE).

---Screen and size. Without the need for a microphone or earpiece built in, it could retain a 320:480 screen with a shorter form factor, or, if we’re really lucky, go wider (for true 16:9, although that seems like a longshot (I must admit, I checked the resolution on the picture that was posted with the announcement).

4) NEW NANO/STUBBY/MINI?. Here is where it gets a bit tricky. Without knowing prices for the new Nano and Touch, it is hard to know if there is room for something inbetween. What IS promising, however, is that while the 3 above models have logic behind them, the newest device is the one that has been getting the most rumors (and fake pictures), surpassing even the touch. While it doesn’t fit a random/small/video nitch of the other three models, Apple could add it between a $200 8gb Nano and $350/$400 Touch. If the top Nano is $250 and the Touch is $299, then there is much less room for another device. Shrinking the video ipod, however, could be easy, cheap, and compete against devices in that niche (while the Touch has the premium slot all to its own). If it IS flash, it could be much thinner (there have been pictures), which wouldn’t make it seem so obese but more like a thin but wide card.


Caveats
While these above products seem logical, there are a few important caveats:
i) Apple may work on the best technologies it can and see how they come together, rather than pre-planning everything.
ii) Apple’s AT&T agreement could throw a wrench into everything, but don’t bet on apple being that stupid.
iii) Apple has, in the past, kept down the number of specific models. There are, at the moment, 2 video ipods, 3 nanos, and a shuffle. We could see 2 touch ipods, 2 video ipods, 2/3 nanos, and 2 shuffles. On the other hand, the market and technology has only grown, and as apple can outcompete others directly, they may opt for more models.
iv) Apple has shown itself to have many tricks up its sleeve. We could still be in for a WOW display (but seriously, don’t expect the iphone nano). Expect SOMETHING that no one has mentioned on this board.
v) Apple may not be too hesitant to steal market share from itself. While its contract with AT&T may bind it somewhat, the real bottom line is profit, not units sold. It has been calculated that the iphone costs less to build than 50% of its sales price, plus the money in a 2-year cellular data contract. If it comes up with a stubby ipod, than it could make a more expensive ($400?) ipod touch with WI-FI, cover the entire spectrum of the market, and only bring in more money. It seems more likely, however, that they will leave out the WI-FI, lower the price and profit margin per unit but selling many more units ($299 is much easier to sell than $399) and leave the iphone for those willing to give Apple really sick profits (thats what you get when you have a monopoly of that power.
vi) The Beatles? I’m not a fan more than your average person (which, I guess, means that I am a fan), but it seems like a good time, if they have finally worked out the negotiations, to release their albums. A special version (perhaps with all of the beatles music preloaded, although one would have to expect that any fan that would buy this would already have most if not all of the music) could be in the works (like the product/red version of the nano). Plus, wouldn’t it be cool to coordinate this with an update of the UK store?



Well, I guess I ranted for a while, but It helped me make sense of all of the rumors that I’ve been hearing, so score one for sanity. I’ve been waiting for an ipod forever (I’ve used a PDA, which was OK, but not refined), and haven’t wanted to get something (i.e. 5.5g) that will soon be out of date (although if they release ipod Wi-FI next year, I’ll be annoyed). I’d love it to be Sept. 5, and while the store stocking reports hint towards that, Apple has yet to mention anything other than the Paris expo, and we are all probably a little biased (and very impatient) for an earlier release dade.

At the same time, as many of people became impatient on the earlier boards, talk turned to a device I hadn’t looked at: the archos 605. A widescreen (with 800x480 resolution!) with touch capabilities and WI-FI for $279 for 30gigs (plus flash/80/and160 gig versions) that isn’t much larger than the current ipod and kicks it butt in the current niche. I hope this makes Apple do WI-FI with internet, because if not, then I’ll probably get an Archos 605 or a refurbished iphone with an unlock hack (and hope the cell hack becomes availible).

I’d just like to thank everyone on this (and a few other boards), because most of what I’ve written above (and all of the good stuff) came from many others debating this. I just like lists, and I’d like nothing better than being able to scroll through my music lists with muti-touch and coverflow within a couple of weeks while being able to check my email.

Great post. I took a look at that Archos 605, I gotta say I'm not a fan. It looks clunky and cheaply built. too many buttons and too much stuff going on with the interface. It would be a kick ass device with the Apple touch though.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...=97&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4

 

[Hecklerdanny]

I love Coverflow. Well, for iTunes, and on my iPhone. But then, I have only entire albums in my library, and I painstakingly retrieved high-res art from http://www.rateyourmusic.com/ , so YMMV. I adore it, and wish it was in my AppleTV's system so I could use it there too.

Maybe the "painstakingly retrieved high-res art" is the part that I'm going to just have to buckle up and do one of these days. Maybe then I'll see the true point of Coverflow, because I've gotta be honest, right now I just don't see why it's practical to use in a simple, on the computer, music listening session while I use photoshop or something.

 

[twoodcc]

well i think it's safe to say that coverflow will at least be on the new big ipod, and probably the nano as well (or whatever the new smaller video ipod will be called)

 

[Hecklerdanny]

Some people think that if the two devices are radically different, many people will buy both, while if they are similar, a customer will only buy one device...

Good points there, but I think that by this point it should be clear to Apple that the reason why every kid in America doesn't have the iPhone is because it has a phone agreement attached to it. In my case, I CAN'T switch because my work pays for my service (not AT&T), My girlfriend CAN'T switch because there is no AT&T service in her area, and so on, and so on....But if Apple made an iPhone, without the phone, I would buy on right now...Heck, I would have bought one months ago. Just my two cents. The problem is that in the meantime, I CAN'T own an iPhone, my girlfriend CAN'T own an iPhone...It's not even a matter of not "wanting" one, in some cases, it's a matter of Apple coming out with a product that a certain number of people just CAN'T own, due to service coverage, previous phone contracts, etc. It crazy to me.

 

[rbroady]

first day of classes is 12:00 on wednesday

do you think they will go on sale wednesday or a few weeks, i have a feeling its gonna be on wednesday, in that case i will be booking it down to SOHO or up 5th have for my new ipod

 

[boxandrew]

I would use it in itunes if it let me full screen on my second monitor. Right now, full screen blacks out the other monitor not being used. If I could somehow have itunes in full screen cover flow on one monitor while I did work on another, i would *always* be using it

Have you tried moving the main iTunes window to the other monitor and then choosing full screen? Just a thought.

 

[rbroady]

oh yea and this "ultra-portable slim laptop"= new ipod

 

[wakerider017]

Hmmm...

And a video of a bunch of different concepts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny-7xmfA1vQ

 

[fawlty]

Interesting that Apple keeps pushing coverflow, when album covers are more irrelevant than ever...

But the particular album covers on this invitation are highly relevant.

 

[tennismanclay]

IF new ipods came out, and IF i decided to buy one, and IF there wasnt a apple store in my city and IF Bestbuy got them in quickly how long would you say before bestbuy would have them. IF it would be faster to do that than order online from the apple store.


IF i was dreaming i would hope for a touchscreen ipod with the same form factor as the iphone, with a diff ui (the homescreen, music, videos, photos, i get tired of.) Hopefully the homescreen will be more like Ipod, Safari, Settings, And ya....


-Clay

 

[wakerider017]

IF new ipods came out, and IF i decided to buy one, and IF there wasnt a apple store in my city and IF Bestbuy got them in quickly how long would you say before bestbuy would have them. IF it would be faster to do that than order online from the apple store.


IF i was dreaming i would hope for a touchscreen ipod with the same form factor as the iphone, with a diff ui (the homescreen, music, videos, photos, i get tired of.) Hopefully the homescreen will be more like Ipod, Safari, Settings, And ya....


-Clay

You like the word "IF"?

I will be buying mine on Amazon.com if I like it... Free shipping and No tax...

 

[Raska]

Of course I have my first day of classes during the event. I'll make sure I bring my MBP with me to see what happens and potentially purchase a new iPod

 

[bdj21ya]

Even though this is an iPod event, Steve will say, "One more thing" as he pulls the cover off the new Mac Mini Maxi.

Um, is it a mac and a tampon? I know Apple has been all about convergence lately, but I think that's pushing it a bit too far!

 

[The_Man]

OMG!!11!!!one!!!1! Thys is lyk s0 grate! itz gunna hav blutooth n wifi n hoverboard capibilities!!!!!1!!!!11!!!

I have been waiting so long for an iPod update, actually I have been waiting since a few months before the 5.5G update--So over a year.

I would be pleased if it were just touch screen and at least 80 gigs.

Anything more would be a miracle. (As in WiFi or Bluetooth).

Regardless, I am buying one. My old one was stolen two years ago and I am ready for a new one.

 

[ezekielrage_99]

Hmmm...

It really would surprise me if the new iPods looks like that.

 

[queshy]

How can this thread be getting -'ves already! The new iPods weren't even announced! The special event is super exciting- people who gave -'ves should wait til the iPods come out before judging the announcement, lol. whatever.

I really can't wait til wednesday...2nd day of school, but i'll be on my laptop all day haha

 

[zap2]

I think the Beatles are coming...a few weeks ago they add Lennon, McCartney before that, and now Ringo this week.

 

[zub3qin]

WiFi WILL be included in the new iPod.

I think Apple needs to offer something more than touch on the new iPod.

While people here may buy the new iPod no matter what, the reality is that Apple needs to offer some new functionality to sell to the masses.

Almost everyone has an iPod by now. Apple needs to sell a new iPod to current iPod owners. The average Joe (or parents of Joe) aren't going to by a new iPod just because there is a new touch interface with coverflow. Also, what is the point of OS X on the iPod... just coverflow? This leads me to believe that WiFI HAS to be included (a WiPod?) for email/internet.
Many can argue that WiFi will cannibalize iPhone sales. I don't think so. There are many many many people who would buy an iPod but would NEVER get an iPhone (think parents shopping for kids/students). The number of Wifi iPods sold would more than make up for the lost iPhone sales.

Creative Solution: Apple chooses to release BOTH versions. A $299 touch iPod and a $399 wifi enabled iPod.

Even if the wiPod is the same price as an iPhone, there are plenty who would buy it... and since they are paying the same as an iPhone, there is no cannibalization of sales.

I suspect that the difference in cost to make a wifi vs non-wifi version is a couple of dollars-- Apple can easily charge $100 more for the wifi enabled version.

Why won't Apple do this?

 

[Mgkwho]

first day of classes is 12:00 on wednesday

Same for me, but I'm done at 12 CST- just in time for the SE!

-=|Mgkwho

 

[jonessodarally]

AppleTV connectivity??

Have I just missed it, or is it really true that NOBODY has thought about having wi-fi on the iPod simply to allow you to stream music, video, etc from your iPod to your AppleTV??


They need to give the AppleTV a greater purpose, and you know how Apple loooooves to talk about making everything work together. This seems like a given. You can stream from your computer. Why not let you stream from your iPod??


Seriously, nobody? It's a decent theory isn't it?
I read all 7 pages of posts (more interesting that working on coursework, heh) and didn't see anyone mention it.

Someone commented on hooking an iPod dock up to the USB port, but.. eh. I'd rather just be.. in the area.


I can see something like "Hey [insert friend's name], i just downloaded the whole 3rd season of THE OFFICE to my iPod, want me to bring it over and we can watch some on your AppleTV?"

Let me know if I'm completely out of line with this idea. I'd be really proud of Apple if they made something like this happen. I mean, or just call up that 17-year-old kid and have him do some more iPhone hacking.

 

[queshy]

lmao it would be funny if the new iPods had no coverflow...haha

 

[savar]

with cover flow. OMFGBBQ!1111111!

OFMGBBQ = oh my freaking god...barbecue?