Apple Exec: We Feature Competitors' Apps 'All The Time' on the App Store

[Cosmosent]

Why doesn't Apple just say (in Court), "Look at ALL the FREE marketing we gave Epic !"

If they did that, the Judge may just say, that's it, case closed !

IMO, apps that received such marketing assistance from Apple (like Epic) have NO grounds to stand on, when complaining about Apple's cut !

It's ALL the other Apps for which Apple has NEVER shown ANY love !

For ALL those apps, Apple's cut, IMO, should be zero !

 

[G5isAlive]

Is it surprising in literally hundreds of thousands of emails they find one or two that probably should have been worded better? shrugs. This one doesn't seem to be corporate policy but the desire of one person. Be that as it may, I wonder if this was around the same time amazon was not allowing Apple products in their store and amazon prime video was not working on Apple TV? I can see why Apple might now want to feature amazon lol.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

I did the same search just now and Pages was 8th down the list not including an ad for an app named “Grammarly”and an AppStore Story featuring Microsoft Word.

View attachment 1771233

Same here — MS Word, Office, Excel, Google Docs, TextEditor ... then Pages.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

Does it really matter if it's on the 8th page when it's pre-loaded on every mac, iphone, ipad though?

Pages, Keynote, and Numbers do not come pre-loaded on any device. They never have been.

 

[fncd]

Pages, Keynote, and Numbers do not come pre-loaded on any device. They never have been.

Sorry, but you're incorrect. I have a brand new iPhone 12 Pro and it has Pages, Keynote, Numbers, iMovie, and GarageBand on it right from the factory. Also, my iPad Air 4 has the exact same apps. Both set up as new devices.

 

[Abazigal]

Epic’s lawyers are doing a really good job exposing Apple’s secret policies.

It’s not going to help them with their lawsuit, because it doesn’t change the fact that Epic knowingly and wilfully violated a contractual agreement with Apple, and they have admitted as much in court.

And while some of these “secrets” may be embarrassing, I don’t think they are going to impact Apple as much as people think they will.

 

[Velociround]

This is weird because I have the exact opposite impression when using the App Store: whenever I actively try to find Apple's apps on the App Store, searching exactly for their name and sometimes even writing "Apple" on the search box, it seems hard to find Apple apps. They are often way down the list or sometimes not present on the search results at all.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

Sorry, but you're incorrect. I have a brand new iPhone 12 Pro and it has Pages, Keynote, Numbers, iMovie, and GarageBand on it right from the factory. Also, my iPad Air 4 has the exact same apps. Both set up as new devices.

That hasn’t been the case for me — they have never been automatically installed on my devices. Is this an option when you initially set up a new device?

 

[fncd]

That hasn’t been the case for me — they have never been automatically installed on my devices. Is this an option when you initially set up a new device?

Not that I'm aware of. As soon as I was taken to the home screen they were all there - on the second page. If you factory reset the phone - they will not be redownloaded automatically. It's only on the first startup out of the box. Added an image. The only thing I have changed is the wallpaper and added Xbox Cloud Gaming.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

Not that I'm aware of. As soon as I was taken to the home screen they were all there - on the second page. If you factory reset the phone - they will not be redownloaded automatically. It's only on the first startup out of the box. Added an image. The only thing I have changed is the wallpaper and added Xbox Cloud Gaming.

View attachment 1771573

Were GarageBand and iMovie auto downloaded too?

 

[fncd]

Was GarageBand auto downloaded too?

Other than the two I mentioned in my previous post, everything you see on that screen was on the phone when I got past initial setup. Activity was likely added once I paired my S6 Watch.

Edit: I wouldn't say they are necessarily auto downloaded - more like they are in the factory loaded image.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

Other than the two I mentioned in my previous post, everything you see on that screen was on the phone when I got past initial setup. Activity was likely added once I paired my S6 Watch.

Edit: I wouldn't say they are necessarily auto downloaded - more like they are in the factory loaded image.

You’re saying that once you chose to set up your new phone fresh, the Home Screen showed all of these apps installed without showing as being downloaded (in progress)?

 

[fncd]

You’re saying that once you chose to set up your new phone fresh, the Home Screen showed all of these apps installed without showing as being downloaded (in progress)?

Whether they downloaded in the background during the setup process or were already on there I cannot say. All I know is that I didn't choose to download them, and when I was done with setup, they were there waiting for me.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

Whether they downloaded in the background during the setup process or were already on there I cannot say. All I know is that I didn't choose to download them, and when I was done with setup, they were there waiting for me.

Sounds like they were already there — because of their size, you probably would have seen them still downloading once setup was finished.

Thanks for correcting me. I don’t know when this changed, but maybe I just haven’t been paying attention.

On the Mac, back in the day, I think these apps were already installed (when they were paid). Since they are free now, I’m surprised they continue with this — especially on iOS devices. I don’t think any app should be free. How does a developer compete with FREE?

 

[1258186]

It’s not going to help them with their lawsuit, because it doesn’t change the fact that Epic knowingly and wilfully violated a contractual agreement with Apple, and they have admitted as much in court.

And while some of these “secrets” may be embarrassing, I don’t think they are going to impact Apple as much as people think they will.

I can imagine the antitrust lawyers in Washington are watching this case very closely. Some of this info could help their investigations.

 

[ian87w]

Sounds like they were already there — because of their size, you probably would have seen them still downloading once setup was finished.

Thanks for correcting me. I don’t know when this changed, but maybe I just haven’t been paying attention.

On the Mac, back in the day, I think these apps were already installed (when they were paid). Since they are free now, I’m surprised they continue with this — especially on iOS devices. I don’t think any app should be free. How does a developer compete with FREE?

At least Apple productivity suite are Apple only, so a competing product (like Microsoft Office) can still win from cross platform compatibility.

Then there’s Google, who is killing everything else with their free offerings of everything, from email to mobile OS. Heck, even many here still prefer Google Drive free storage vs paying for iCloud.

 

[Shirasaki]

That's an ad. No different than companies paying to be at the top of a google list. Apple isn't "featuring" PocketLife.

The point here is stock calendar app is the first app displayed right below the ad.

 

[Apleeseed84]

It’s not going to help them with their lawsuit, because it doesn’t change the fact that Epic knowingly and wilfully violated a contractual agreement with Apple, and they have admitted as much in court.

And while some of these “secrets” may be embarrassing, I don’t think they are going to impact Apple as much as people think they will.

Well from all these leaks of the trial, so did Netflix and Yet they got a slap on the wrist, we even found out Hulu is whitelisted on using their refund policies but you are right, normal joe and Jane won’t care about this trial until it makes it into the big news that affects their brand but I’m sure everyone here who watches all their keynotes and sees how Apple promotes themselves as this perfectly built ecosystem, this internal chatter has proven the complete total opposite to be honest, which should be interesting if a privacy investigation would expose Apple if ever.

I want to root for both sides but I’m not washing my hands into this mess. It’s like crumbling a piece a paper, would you trust to use it again?

 

[lolkthxbai]

Pages, Keynote, and Numbers do not come pre-loaded on any device. They never have been.

Some time shortly after they became free, every iPhone (I’m guessing iPad and iPod Touch as well although I’ve never had one) and every iMac came with pre-installed versions of iWork.

However, if you restored the OS on those devices, you’d have to reinstall them from the AppStore because they are not a part of the OS. Which is why the AppStore prompts you to log in with your Apple ID so that it binds the free license for iWork that comes with each iMac with the first Apple ID used.

 

[DaPeeps]

Would love to know how many times Epic has promoted competitors' products on their platform for free.

Would love to know how many devices Epic manufacturers and runs an App Store on.
Oh that’s right; none. At issue here is if iOS devices are single use devices (is a smart phone a computing device or in the same category as a “feature phone”) or not. If it’s deemed a computing device in the same category as a PC; they’re monopolizing it and should be regulated. That’s what the court will decide

 

[MacBH928]

Indeed they do, I am surprised to see Microsoft Office and Netflix featured on the App Store.

emails are a pretty common type of evidential material in trials. That's why you should be very careful about what you write in them. Even the Microsoft monopoly trial back in the 1990's featured them.

IMO that should be illegal, internal communication should be considered private

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Indeed they do, I am surprised to see Microsoft Office and Netflix featured on the App Store.



IMO that should be illegal, internal communication should be considered private

It is private. But it’s also a record. And as such it can be used in these kinds of situations. And when you get into a dispute situation it becomes illegal to delete them. It’s standard business practice in most civilised countries. And not particularly new either.

 

[jonnysods]

Honestly I feel bad for developers - so many apps on the App Store, and trying to find something new is near impossible.

Would be awesome if they had an A-Z list of apps, or a “new apps this week” and you could look at the last few thousand new releases.

I see Apple promoting competitor apps - and also their own a lot.

 

[yaxomoxay]

IMO that should be illegal, internal communication should be considered private

So is the private conversation between two mafia guys plotting to kill somebody. But if they create a record, then it’s fair play (and there are rules to use such items in court).

 

[cyb3rdud3]

So is the private conversation between two mafia guys plotting to kill somebody. But if they create a record, then it’s fair play (and there are rules to use such items in court).

Exactly.

it’s really “concerning” seeing some of the comments on here but without a grain of understanding what rules and obligations are when running a business. Yes so full of opinions. My gosh when some on here ever get to run or even be part of business they’d be in a whole lot of trouble.

Then again not that surprising as most businesses do actually fail …