It's not speculative if Apple actually doesn't allow it, which they don't. It's stating a fact.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Executive Says Users Who Want App Sideloading Already Have That Option With Other Platforms
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I mean I knew there was no side loading getting into the game and I like the phone for a lot of other reasons. I just think apple's excuse of protecting users is a pretty thin one and I am a customer who would welcome more options on my device if they offered them.
Just because the walled garden has a gate to the outside doesn't mean someone has to leave it. Especially when there's a guard repeatedly warning you not and of the consequences (I'm confident apple can bury the setting to allow sideloading or sufficiently warn users if Apple remotely tried). If you bought it for the appeal of the walled garden you'll know to listen to the guard you paid to have there in the first place.
Really anyone can already side load apps when they feel like it already with Xcode, it's just a bit annoying. The gate's already there. Apple could just find a better balance at making it more accessible while protecting their users, they just choose not to. I argue it's for less flattering reasons than this press release.
Here we go again with the non sequitur. No!!! A for profit company cares about profit. Call out the hounds! No! Apple makes decisions that encourages more sales? No! No! No! They need to change. Whatever.
Of the many silly arguments by the 'Apple must! do it like Google!' crowd, this might be silliest of all. So let's clear it up once and for all: Apple is a for profit company that makes decisions that improves their profit. So there you all go, happy now? Apple is just like Google (and the places you get your food, clothes, banking, cars, home decor, electronics etc etc ad nauseam). They give discounts (to attract more buying), they arrange business, design their products etc etc in hopes of (gasp!) getting more people to buy their products.
Now that that is cleared up, if you want an open device, go buy an Android. They are vastly bigger and more available throughout the world. The incessant din of "Apple must!" and latching on to every court case (you may want to check out court cases and big company numbers) is funny. Apple isn't changing and many of us like it that way.
To a certain point, yes. I dealt with an aging mother who wanted to stay connected, NEEDED her computer to stay involved, but got suckered a few times. Had a family friend that sent her every infection on the planet (it seemed) until we forced her to use a Mac. Stuff like that...
Yes, what's wrong with protecting children, and 'older children' from things they might not realize are scams, or things they shouldn't be doing, or information they shouldn't be giving out to others. Not clicking to install an app because 'someone says it's great'. (I'm embarrassed that I got taken, almost, by that. I was looking for someone local to bike ride, and the group I was on had local riders on it. Then someone said 'Download the 'tinder' app. You should be able to find someone to ride with. No pressure, decent people, couldn't hurt.' That was when the app was first coming out, and I hadn't heard of it yet. I downloaded it, and it's a dating app? I don't need ANOTHER relationship, I've got enough issues with the one I already have. I felt insulted, and most of all embarrassed.Me, in the industry for decades, 'taken' by some random popping up a recommendation. Damn)
Maybe I'm overreacting, but allowing people to load their own apps opens a door I'm comfortable leaving closed, and locked. If you want that, there are alternatives to breaking the back of Apple to spoil their system. Why do people always seem to wan to destroy a good thing? Is dragging Apple into the Droid sewer really that much fun? I'm just dismayed... It's like people really don't want to have good things. Leave the App Store alone. I like having a life guard at the app pool. Hell, even Google was talking of having to go that way because of the amount of crap spam and junk apps.
I personally don’t want side loading. Not so much due to defenses as I don’t feel threatened using say an iMac in that regard, but because having a centralized repository of apps that I bought is very convenient.
And Google admitted that they were losing market share BECAUSE their app store was a sewer. I don't know what happened to their talk, but they were saying they would strongly look at either changing their app store to be more like Apple's, or they would create a separate 'curated' app store, and possibly charge a monthly or yearly fee for access.
People LIKE feeling safe. People LIKE feeling like they aren't going to be a product for someone to make money off of their information. People like the ability to have some level of trust, and the expectation of not being sold down the river, left to the wolves, and weasels.
Why do people try so hard to kill the good things in the world? Does it give people a thrill? Dragging Apple down to the level of the Google app sewer? It's sad, mean, cruel, pathetic, parasitic...
That's a well stated opinion. As a customer here is what you like and prefer. But if one day you (or I) want 'open', you have another widely and extremely available option out there. If enough of you/us did that then a company (in an evil scheme to make profit!) may change their eco rules. Yet since Apple is extremely successful in what they do with a customer base that reports among the highest satisfaction (and retention ratings), they'll continue to do it the way that is successful and makes customers satisfied.
For some odd reason there is a very vocal contingent on internet chat sites that hate the idea of all of that.
Wy are you sorry?
Again, on a Mac you have the potential to have terabytes and terabytes of personal info, including all the text, WhatsApp, telegram, and any other personal and professional messages for multiple users - not just you. I have loads more stuff, (historical health data), on my Mac.
Your computer can locate your phone, (assuming find my is enabled which a lot do).
If your phone is backed up your computer may well have call logs.
You seem to have overlooked a lot.
"Fanboyism" and "hurt feelings." That's the domain of someone who is not able to argue a point, and, being out of gas instead slings insults and ad hominems.
Rejecting 30-40% of the submitted 13,200 apps every day with less than 1% appealed is "half-assed bare minimum"? Perhaps you can state what the proper level would be taking it out of the half-assed bare minimum category. And how much you are willing to pay, and the amount of time needed, to achieve that level.
Please try and keep the discussion respectful.
They don't allow it now. That isn't in dispute.
Here's what you said (and what I quoted):
To which I replied:
Your premise was about what Apple should do, not about what it is currently doing. The agreed-upon fact that Apple doesn't allow it now, doesn't impact my opinion about what it should do moving forward.
Then you went on about how they wouldn't allow this...so were you meaning to obviate your own premise that I had already agreed to? You literally added additional conditions ("well if this, then that"). Essentially, "even if you think they should, they won't". That is speculative in and of itself if we're talking about Apple policy, again, into the future. (For the record, I believe it's extremely unlikely to happen...but the premise was "should" not "would").
Of course it's "easy to say"...neither you or I—as far as I'm aware—will be tasked with doing the actual engineering that would/could implement such a solution.
You assumed/projected a ton from my response that wasn't and isn't there. I didn't say anything one way or another about what would or should happen if someone figured it out, independently.
Except it has not been fine, my mom and uncle, found a way to get adware and malware on their Macs.
Never on the iPhone.
This argument makes no sense. You're purchasing a piece of hardware. However, without software, it becomes a brick. You can't just decouple the two and expect anything to work.
What you're asking is for governments to force civilian software companies to open up their hardware—arguably their competitive advantage—for their competitors to use. This makes zero sense and removes every incentive for software/hardware companies to even create hardware to begin with.
I'm all for open platforms and competition. But that's not what Apple is selling you and they should not be forced into that model because a few people aren't happy with how it distributes 3rd party software on the platform.
Speaking of 3rd party software, take away the App Store and the iPhone is still very functional for a lot of people. If iOS were useless out of the box without the App Store, sure this whole side loading thing could be valid. But it's not. If push comes to shove, Apple could shut down the App Store overnight and just sell iPhones the way they are. Given those 2 extremes, I think most people would choose to also have a store curated by the manufacturer which is a value add to the platform.
Last edited:
Personally, if they could find a magical way, I would have no complaint.....I just think that the iPhone is the one absolute device that needs to most locked down security, from the stand point of there is so much there that is a goldmine for identity thieves. People will potentially have their driver's license, passport, car fob, medical records. My Dr.s office now uses it as you way into the records, appointment check-in, It is now required that doctors and medical have all records on computer and the iPhone has access to it all.
Well, for macOS, they failed to attract mobile developers to support macOS after Big Sur with Apple Silicon chip. While many Mac softwares are getting native supports, mobile apps on Mac App Store is still terrible and most major apps aren't supporting or not working properly. Apple said you can use mobile apps directly on Mac! How come most mobile apps aren't still available? At this point, if they can solve this problem, it will be a huge problem.
I think the other aspect of this topic is that Apple doesn't want to allow side loading because it would lead to Apple getting sued because people would not want to take responsibility for their own actions and still blame Apple because of a data breach etc. I think the worst thing Apple can do is allow it to happen.
Um, OK, I guess?
If you are a company that gets on your soapbox about privacy and security and then are outed for failing to remove scams that have been reported to you months previously or are so obvious that people are shaking their heads that such a thing ever got past your reviewers then you're not doing enough. Willing to pay? ... level needed? ... I'm not the one that's making billions in profit, they're the ones that need to figure that out. Excuses are not going to cut it, it's time to show some of that innovation they keep prattling about.
For those that still don’t understand why this would be a problem:
MacOS users are 10% the number of iOS users, and yet there are more viruses and malware for MacOS. Why do you think this is?
MacOS users are 10% the number of iOS users, and yet there are more viruses and malware for MacOS. Why do you think this is?
This has been a long time issue and one that needs a final solution.
I own Apple, have jailbroke in the past and do some dev work.
I own Android (main device) and side load.
Most folks wouldn't side load. This "OMG!!! You'll load baaaaaad stuff!!" is just nonsense. Basic fear mongering 101.
Apple should allow us the option to side load if we want. Personal responsibility. We don't need a corporation dictating this imho. Apple just looks to protect their bottom line. There are a number of ways to do this and potentially some additional revenue streams in this also.
My wish: Apple Hardware with basic Android.
I own Apple, have jailbroke in the past and do some dev work.
I own Android (main device) and side load.
Most folks wouldn't side load. This "OMG!!! You'll load baaaaaad stuff!!" is just nonsense. Basic fear mongering 101.
Apple should allow us the option to side load if we want. Personal responsibility. We don't need a corporation dictating this imho. Apple just looks to protect their bottom line. There are a number of ways to do this and potentially some additional revenue streams in this also.
My wish: Apple Hardware with basic Android.
I just picked a couple comments, but this would apply to a LOT of comments.
I am thinking we are conflating some different items. There seems to be the idea that the act of side-loading an app is the issue (or the security involved). And maybe at a "weeds level" technical point of view that is true. In this way I agree and I am sure Apple has the capacity to limit that exposure. But that is not the issue.
I think the issue looked at in a larger scope (which is how Apple is looking at it), revolves around trust. When you use an iPhone you can trust that you are receiving a very secure interaction that Apple is constantly making more secure. Is it 100% secure, of course not. But it is more secure than Android which is the other main option today. The only reason this exists is because of the "walls" that people are complaining about. When you take away the walls, you now are introducing the ability for other people to pretend to be something they are not and affect the masses at a large scale. They could have all of the distracting marketing to look the part, but not actually be the real thing. That would allow them to make a lot of money. When you make billions off of it, likely not to change it. Apple DOES make billions off of marketing, but PRIVACY is one of the major things Apple is selling and people are buying and ACTUALLY getting.
For those thinking that "well just don't use side-loading or other apps stores" are missing the picture at the "masses" level. For a person who educates themselves and has the skills and knowledge to know what "marketing jargon" is hype or not, they will be able to see through the BS. The slightly less skilled will know where to look on the internet for people they trust who do that. But for 90% of Apple's market, they won't know when they are being lied to.
Apple believes the general user (my parents) wouldn't know how to understand the "choice" and destroys the protection Apple is trying to create.
That is what Apple SAYS they are trying to prevent. You can completely distrust that and say they are lying. No argument from me that we can't prove it. But drilling these examples down to the micro level is missing the full picture. Whether Apple is lying to "protect profit" or any other reason, or if they are telling the truth can be debated into eternity. But I am not hearing many detractors actually address the reason Apple is providing as their stance on the topic (true or not).
PS. Can't Apple believe in privacy and security AND want to make a s#$t ton on money? Does it have to be an either or proposition? Seems like one could serve the other in a symbiotic relationship...
Is that really accurate. Case in point; look at the latest Apple commercials and articles about privacy.
Second case in point; the number of apps and security issues discovered which Apple takes far to long to address.
Apple is doing A and saying B.
Most folks I know with iPhones like the ease of use or have never used anything else - it's all they know. Who is Apple trying to convince? Users or Politicians? I suspect Politicians and using users to help that along.
JMHO
This is one of those comments that tells everyone “I didn’t read the article.”
Are you willing to pay Apple to vet every single website in existence? I certainly do not want to. It is NOT possible. They would need a team of THOUSANDS of people, and with new websites spinning up and dying every day, it is impossible.
Uh I have not overlooked anything. I support more people and have more of a customer base to ask what they do with their personal devices that you do.
This is ALL YOU. The general user, pretty much the iPhone or any smartphone is ALL THEY HAVE. They don't even have a computer anymore. I know pretty much noone that uses chat software on their computer for their personal chats. Yes I have Slack on my WORK computer, but for my personal computer all I have is Steam when I want to play games with someone. I am not doing my taxes through Steam.
WhatsApp - Typically a phone app NOT a PC program
Telegram - Same as WhatsApp
The majority of the people I know just use Facebook on their computer. You do realize that the personal info is NOT on the actual hard drive/SSD right? However, their tracking data, health data and more are all on their phone.
Um, the source of the data is coming from your phone. Therefore, your phone knows more than your computer. You computer just cannot make up the data. It poll from the phone data. So yes, your phone knows where you went and where you are now NOT your computer.
Last edited: