Apple Executive Says Users Who Want App Sideloading Already Have That Option With Other Platforms

[One2Grift]

It's refreshing to hear that if a User can ... then hackers will ... so we don't allow that. So if you want ... then don't buy Apple.

Thread!
It's really as simple as you write. Apple has chosen to make that as impossible as possible. Everyone knows it, everyone can choose it or not choose it. To further that point: non Apple options are more widespread, far more available, FAR more hardware options than iOS.
The worldwide smartphone market is, or in the near future will be, about 1 in 6 iOS and about 5 in 6 Android. The 5 in 6 insist to the 1 in 6 we MUST do it their way for seemingly no reason other than a vocal slice of the 5 in 6 just don't like it. It's laughable on its face. (they will then argue with their appeals to authority all the way to Apple is just trying to make a lot of money. I suspect those and new hits will keep on comin too).

 

[dk001]

The choice is referring to an example like this:
Client A wants a phone with an operating system that has no option for side-loading, a phone and OS that is hardwired to be like that. No one can install, tinker, enable, unthetered upload, etc apps to a phone.

Then Apple is forced to be more like Android, side loading is supported.

Besides the possibility of Client A being a bit too paranoid, that person now doesn’t have a choice of a platform like the one at the beginning.

Where do you get this stuff?
I cannot sideload on my Android unless "I Turn That Feature On!". It is off by default.
Kind of like if I don't want to use Screen Time and Parental Controls, I leave them "Turned Off" in iOS.

It's a choice. You either want it on or you do not. Pretty simple.

 

[dk001]

Thread!
It's really as simple as you write. Apple has chosen to make that as impossible as possible. Everyone knows it, everyone can choose it or not choose it. To further that point: non Apple options are more widespread, far more available, FAR more hardware options than iOS.
The worldwide smartphone market is, or in the near future will be, about 1 in 6 iOS and about 5 in 6 Android. The 5 in 6 insist to the 1 in 6 we MUST do it their way for seemingly no reason other than a vocal slice of the 5 in 6 just don't like it. It's laughable on its face. (they will then argue with their appeals to authority all the way to Apple is just trying to make a lot of money. I suspect those and new hits will keep on comin too).

The part in BOLD, how about some proof of that? I call that rhetoric.

 

[m4mario]

Such bs macOS has been doing fine for years. This is just fear mongering to protect their billion dollar cash cow.

The article clearly explains why iOS is more vulnerable. But hey, if you want to be the person who comments on articles without reading them, then that’s up to you.

 

[One2Grift]

That's what it'll come to. The various world authorities will legislate to force Apple to open up and, in an effort to protect the public which those governments are supposed to be doing, not Apple, Apple will offer 2 options on iOS new device setup. 1) Status Quo. Locked and App Store only. 2) open to do as you like.
I'll guarantee it'll be something close to 99% who pick (1) and the other 1% will be hackers, geeks and those looking for ways to exploit holes in (1) for nefarious reasons.
The public has 2 power plays. One is in the voting booth. The other is in their wallet. We've had a taste of secure iOS, virtually no one is going to want to give that up now.

That's very well put.
Of those demanding Apple do it the Android way, there is likely very very few who have any intention of owning an Apple device unlocked. Apple devices typically come with some varying level of premium for the very reason of the walled garden and tighter security and privacy etc etc. Apple could go the route of making lots of offerings at all levels of the consumer space (the 99$ iPhone, the 40$ ATV stick, the 65$ watch, the 75$ iPad --> on upward..etc etc). They could design software/apps to intern with everything. Purely look at increasing sales. And even better, they could start collecting data at a huge level to sell those extremely valuable metrics for many billions of dollars (a la Facebook and Google). They could continue to make their huge revenue (I'd argue even bigger revenue in the short term). But Apple choose's the more limited offering with a tighter engineering loop, focus on simpler eco and EofU, a no ad money/no human capital monetized approach. That's one main reason there is a premium on Apple devices (the other is, IMO, it's a better product). Anyone actually think the vocally loud demanding opening up the eco have any intention of buying the more expensive device just to put womp womp apps on them from private websites?
You may be right about the government actions but I actually don't think it will happen. Politicians like headlines, they like to look like they are doing something. This is why all of a sudden it's being flagged in several countries for the very muddled "investigating" headline. But frequently (but not always) as the truth comes to light, Politicians move on. And while the App Store thing is aimed at Apple, it's potential is WAY bigger than Apple. Regulation is never precise and every gray area is potential for legal exploition. I'd bet my paycheck even Google would be unhappy with forcing Apple to open up. Once that cat is out of the bag there could be a lot of court action aimed at not just large caps but small cap and mid cap companies. The massive tech industry won't accept this without a fight and, rightly or wrongly,their muscle is huge. Once the whole industry gets in gear you'll likely see headlines change and you'll see new catnip for the politicians to move onto playing "we'll fix this" with something else.

 

[One2Grift]

The part in BOLD, how about some proof of that? I call that rhetoric.

You are calling Android's vast dominance of the WW(world wide) smartphone OS market rhetoric? Really?

Worldwide Smartphone Shipment OS Market Share Forecast​

Smartphone Market Share

Company 1Q25Shipments 1Q25Market Share 1Q24Shipments 1Q24 Market Share 1Q25/1Q24 Growth Samsung 60.6 20.1% 60.2 20.1% 0.6% Apple 58.7 19.5% 52.6 17.5% 11.6% Xiaomi 41.8 13.9% 40.8 13.6% 2.4% OPPO 23.5 7.8% 25.2 8.4% -6.6% Vivo 22.7 7.5% 21.3 7.1% 6.5% Others 94.0 31.2% 100.1 33.3% -6.1% Total...

www.idc.com

Highlights: Android 84.3%, iOS 15.6%, other (rounding to a tenth of a percent is 0)

That may be closer to 6 in 7 (I said 5 in 6). Regardless, let's say it was 5 in 6, or less at 4 in 5. How about a lower 3 in 4? What level of dominance of the smartphone OS market does Android have to have to make the argument: the vast majority loudly insisting the VERY clear minority must do it the dominant way is utter nonsense. That on its face Android's vast (and factual) dominance anecdotally means they (and by extension you) have absolutely no business telling Apple and Apple users what their eco must do. Certainly your side's appeal to authority in the face of Android's dominance is ludicrous.

 

[H2SO4]

Uh I have not overlooked anything. I support more people and have more of a customer base to ask what they do with their personal devices that you do.

This is ALL YOU. The general user, pretty much the iPhone or any smartphone is ALL THEY HAVE. They don't even have a computer anymore. I know pretty much noone that uses chat software on their computer for their personal chats. Yes I have Slack on my WORK computer, but for my personal computer all I have is Steam when I want to play games with someone. I am not doing my taxes through Steam.

WhatsApp - Typically a phone app NOT a PC program
Telegram - Same as WhatsApp

The majority of the people I know just use Facebook on their computer. You do realize that the personal info is NOT on the actual hard drive/SSD right? However, their tracking data, health data and more are all on their phone.



Um, the source of the data is coming from your phone. Therefore, your phone knows more than your computer. You computer just cannot make up the data. It poll from the phone data. So yes, your phone knows where you went and where you are now NOT your computer.

First line, all I need to hear. You have zero idea what I do and/or who I support. Good bye.

 

[Apleeseed84]

I might be in the Minority here but back when my first cell was a Sanyo SCP6400, I survived using a Razor, Blackberry, Symbian, Android, PalmOS and now Apple wants to make it seem like the end of the world? LOL, to each their own, in my opinion I always felt apple devices were held monumentally back because of this.

 

[mejsric]

If you don't like McDonalds, there's KFC, SubWay etc...

 

[sunny5]

Because the developers haven’t made them available. It doesn’t require too much development effort. However, many developers have backed themselves into a corner where they’re selling essentially the same code base cheaper on the iPad than it is on the Mac. I doubt these developers are going to just let folks use the cheaper iPad apps on the Mac just because Apple says it’s possible

iOS/iPadOS apps on Apple Silicon Mac is still bad. Are they really working on it?

Apple advertised that iOS/iPadOS can be used directly on AS Mac during the WWDC 2020. I was excited at that time but when I got the first M1 Mac mini on November, 2020, I was very disappointed and it never worked like they advertised. The touch system didnt work well, UI and resolution were...

forums.macrumors.com

They aren't willing to support it.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

Why are we even talking about this FOURTEEN YEARS later?

Today, Android is FAR more flexible and in some ways downright BETTER than iOS in a bazillion ways.

But NOT in the (at least) one that MATTERS THE MOST to me: The Ecosystem.

iPhone +/- AirPods +/- Watch +/- iPad +/- Pencil +/- AirTags +/- Mac = TOTALLY WORTH THE LOCKDOWN.

Love it or leave it is damn right.

 

[djtp]

Luckily, for me (as a European user) the EU will throw out this monopolistic strategy of Apple sooner or later.

There is simply no way that Apple's current position is regarded as an open or free market. With the iPhone, Apple created an ecosystem that has forever been used by 3rd-party app providers. And in this regard, Apple is violating the principles of an open, fair and unbiased market.

This would be like you're an electricity provider, and you require all your customers to only use the wall sockets you sell. This is not a plain field for all other competitors of wall sockets. The same is true for the App Store: As long as Apple is providing apps themselves and competing in this regard with other developers, it should not be allowed to leverage the own market to gain an unfair advantage.

Using this argument, why not challenge the great car manufacturers such as Volkswagen, Audi, BMW and Mercedes, to allow you to install whatever operating system you like for your ICE head units. And whilst we’re at it, people should also be allowed a choice to put their own engine maps into the control software…

Oh hang on a minute, that will never happen - because as a consumer you have a choice not to buy one of their cars in the first place.

 

[Expos of 1969]

This was my appeal of Android. I would change my icons and layouts so much, it was like I was on crack. Rooting to add other things that would make other things not work. I had the Droid X, Galaxy Nexus, and some others before switching with the iPhone 6. I have been with Apple ever since. The iPhone is a superior product. Quality between the hardware and software are unmatched. Waiting for the new software release for months and then ending up never getting it. This isn't fan boying, it's just the facts. This isn't saying Android is garbage, because it's not.

You are admitting that your actions on your Android phones caused problems and you are basing your Android views on your experience many years ago. Waiting for a new software release for months and never getting it and stating that as a fact and implying that is the case for Android in general is unfair and incorrect. On my Galaxy phone I have received a security update monthly without fail for the past two years and software updates as released. And I will continue to do so for the next two years at a minimum.

You also state that the iPhone is a superior product. Without starting your statement with the words...in my opinion....it is a meaningless statement.

 

[Wildkraut]

You are calling Android's vast dominance of the WW(world wide) smartphone OS market rhetoric? Really?

Worldwide Smartphone Shipment OS Market Share Forecast​

Smartphone Market Share

Company 1Q25Shipments 1Q25Market Share 1Q24Shipments 1Q24 Market Share 1Q25/1Q24 Growth Samsung 60.6 20.1% 60.2 20.1% 0.6% Apple 58.7 19.5% 52.6 17.5% 11.6% Xiaomi 41.8 13.9% 40.8 13.6% 2.4% OPPO 23.5 7.8% 25.2 8.4% -6.6% Vivo 22.7 7.5% 21.3 7.1% 6.5% Others 94.0 31.2% 100.1 33.3% -6.1% Total...

www.idc.com

Highlights: Android 84.3%, iOS 15.6%, other (rounding to a tenth of a percent is 0)

That may be closer to 6 in 7 (I said 5 in 6). Regardless, let's say it was 5 in 6, or less at 4 in 5. How about a lower 3 in 4? What level of dominance of the smartphone OS market does Android have to have to make the argument: the vast majority loudly insisting the VERY clear minority must do it the dominant way is utter nonsense. That on its face Android's vast (and factual) dominance anecdotally means they (and by extension you) have absolutely no business telling Apple and Apple users what their eco must do. Certainly your side's appeal to authority in the face of Android's dominance is ludicrous.

Wrong statistics.
Despite Android being used across different manufacturers, you have to put Apple vs another manufacturer. E.g Apple vs Samsung, Apple vs Sony, Apple vs … etc.

 

[mngdew]

I think the other aspect of this topic is that Apple doesn't want to allow side loading because it would lead to Apple getting sued because people would not want to take responsibility for their own actions and still blame Apple because of a data breach etc. I think the worst thing Apple can do is allow it to happen.

Google has allowed the sideloading from the start yet people didn't blame them for their own actions. Oh wait, they are Android users. /s

 

[mngdew]

Wrong statistics.
Despite Android being used across different manufacturers, you have to put Apple vs another manufacturer. E.g Apple vs Samsung, Apple vs Sony, Apple vs … etc.

Not quite. Apple chose not to open up iOS to others while Google did with Android. It's iOS vs Android.

 

[thayolee]

The iPhone is much more private than a Mac. Only ’YOU’ use it. Not the same for Mac.

That's a dumb argument. Both contain the same level of YOUR personal information (Eg. iCloud, Photos, etc.) and compromise on either of them leads to the compromise of your data EVERYWHERE.

 

[Wildkraut]

Not quite. Apple chose not to open up iOS to others while Google did with Android. It's iOS vs Android.

Nope it’s not, because if I decide to invent a smartphone to compete with Apple, the marketshare of other Androids won’t help me to achieve that goal.

It would be just me with my Smartphone(@0%) vs Apple. You can’t simply group non related companies , just because Android is being licensed to them. The only “real” Android Phone is Google Pixel.

Anyway Google is also being sued for enforcing shady anticompetitive licensing practices to manufacturers.

 

[Seoras]

You may be right about the government actions but I actually don't think it will happen. Politicians like headlines, they like to look like they are doing something. This is why all of a sudden it's being flagged in several countries for the very muddled "investigating" headline. But frequently (but not always) as the truth comes to light, Politicians move on. And while the App Store thing is aimed at Apple, it's potential is WAY bigger than Apple. Regulation is never precise and every gray area is potential for legal exploition. I'd bet my paycheck even Google would be unhappy with forcing Apple to open up. Once that cat is out of the bag there could be a lot of court action aimed at not just large caps but small cap and mid cap companies. The massive tech industry won't accept this without a fight and, rightly or wrongly,their muscle is huge. Once the whole industry gets in gear you'll likely see headlines change and you'll see new catnip for the politicians to move onto playing "we'll fix this" with something else.

I'm not so optimistic. I hope you are right but I'm not hopeful.
Apple is franticly lobbying each legislature right now but so too is M$oft, Facebook, Epic and every other cretinous company that doesn't like the App Store either through revenue envy or Apple's enforced privacy rules.
How often do we see the big corps getting more of a say than the actual voter who put those law makers in a job?

How they would spin this as "Apple's Fault" if, no when, there's suddenly a massive up swing in malware on iPhones after forcing the door open will be interesting to watch.

I often think of this quote when I see Apple doing good stuff for their customers, only for FB/Epic et all to try and kick them in the teeth for it or the haters on here, and other forums, ripping them up.
"Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil." - Machiavelli

 

[One2Grift]

I'm not so optimistic. I hope you are right but I'm not hopeful.
Apple is franticly lobbying each legislature right now but so too is M$oft, Facebook, Epic and every other cretinous company that doesn't like the App Store either through revenue envy or Apple's enforced privacy rules.
How often do we see the big corps getting more of a say than the actual voter who put those law makers in a job?

How they would spin this as "Apple's Fault" if, no when, there's suddenly a massive up swing in malware on iPhones after forcing the door open will be interesting to watch.

I often think of this quote when I see Apple doing good stuff for their customers, only for FB/Epic et all to try and kick them in the teeth for it or the haters on here, and other forums, ripping them up.
"Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil." - Machiavelli

i do understand. (Love the Machiavellian ending)
The epic thing is and always was a long shot for Epic and the anti Apple crowd. Even if the judge gave Epic some partial win(unlikely) it’ll be stayed quickly with the final judgment day in court several years away.
No doubt Facebook is temporarily happy seeing this (Mark Z wrote he wanted Apple to feel pain). But even SpyWareBook (Facebook) may see the can of worms this could open — ultimately be much less happy (plus Facebook has to know that Google will eventually do what Apple did, provide privacy features. The way Facebook makes much of that 93% of trevenue will have to change to some degree semi soon). Keep in mind, Apple’s privacy changes pissed off media and other business websites too. Facebook and Google analytics are cross scripts (potentially paid to) that hit many web page loads. Apple definitely pissed off a lot of business by putting in hard privacy options

But rest easy, Apple is smart. Their eco is going no where and any change would be on the whole mostly ineffectual even with a potential regulatory wack in France or wherever. Remember Microsoft largely went right along with Business as usual after a ruling (2002?) that was huge! compared to anything coming at Apple (or Google, or Facebook etc). The public has a short attention span, politicians not much better.

Imho Apple should be hitting these public media shows with the emphasis on privacy/tracking, cross scripting, and security issues — hitting it again and again. Make those who are temporarily cheering the heat on Apple know that some of their dirty house is going to be exposed too. Apple has yet to do that but they should, it’s a powerful weapon imho..

 

[himanshumodi]

I doubt it. Apple likes control as much as money, and the control is probably more important to them than the pittance they'd make over charging for side loading.

In 2020, app store sales amount to $60 billion. 30% of that is pocketed by Apple. That is not a pittance. And this is growing in double digit percentages every year. I am not saying apple doesn't deserve to earn money of the iOS platform. But they are not fighting this fight for mere "control".

 

[amartinez1660]

Where do you get this stuff?
I cannot sideload on my Android unless "I Turn That Feature On!". It is off by default.
Kind of like if I don't want to use Screen Time and Parental Controls, I leave them "Turned Off" in iOS.

It's a choice. You either want it on or you do not. Pretty simple.

What stuff I get where?
I’m trying to explain what this seemingly weird removal of choice quote comes from, not taking sides here, another way:

Someone wants a 3 wheeled car, not a four wheeled car, not a two wheeled car, not a 3 one with the option to be 4 one day or 2 wheels mode another day. Three and only three with no switches.

Suddenly the government passes a law that says all cars need to be 3 wheels with a fourth one always accesible behind a switch.
The people looking for the most constrained hard-3 version now can’t choose it.

We can discuss why would someone not want the seemingly better 3 (4) flexible version, why be looking for constrains.
Some people like less switches, others like more, others like it simple, others just don’t like change, some people find that switches break.
Also why THIS specific switch between all the hundreds others is the controversial one, maybe because of the impact.
We can also discuss if this is all an Apple power play to drive people their way.

None of which I got a clue of, just hunches and biased hypotheses… however, just in this thread, there’s definitely people wanting it to be like it has been, the “three wheeled and nothing else car” option.

 

[himanshumodi]

They will find a way, trust me. A lot of the stuff that is free or low cost now will simply go up in price. You want a certificate, which is needed to run? Here's the cost, upfront before you sell 1 app. Developer tools? Pay up.

Except, that revenue will be a small fraction of what apple makes off app store right now. Also, much harder to justify. At least right now Apple's spin is that they ensure user security, convenience for developers, etc. If it's just a certificate peddling - that's rather blatant selling tickets for access.

Personally, I do get Apple's point that they should be making money of the iOS platform if they are expected to invest in building and maintaining the operating system. I don't know if the furore would die off if apple simply said they are reducing fees to 10% across the board. Or are we not just in a battle of egos at this point. As a user, I have no complaints with the current setup. As a small time developer, again no issues. I imagine its the other members of the "big tech" ilk who are too used to getting their own way who are huffing and puffing about the door to iOS not being opened up.

 

[Halopend]

Ok. Sideloading advocate here:

I legit have a hard time understanding how anyone can align with Apple on this. I’m going to list my reasons why and I want some to refute each piece by piece.

Why does offering a choice to install apps sideloaded “destroy” security on iPhone for you given that:
- if you feel unsafe sideloading, you don’t have to use it.
- If you worry it will become the only option on some choice apps forcing you to use sideloading:
A - if said apps were so compelling to want to side-load then where is the malware coming from? Was it secretly injected when the developer wasn’t looking? Note this can happen but it’s pretty rare and there are ways to protect against it even with side-loading. The only seeming advantage Apple has in its favour is the ability to review the code directly as opposed to compiled instructions…. But really virus detection is a complex beast and software is often thousands upon thousands of lines of interwoven detailed code. Trying to comb through another developers code to find a virus is like looking for a needle in a haystack. If you think Apple Code Reviewers looks at code manually… scanning everything before approval… you would be extremely disappointed. In truth they run automated scans and if something is detected might review the code. This might seem more secure on the surface than scanning compiled code which is impossible to read at the human level…. But it’s actually quite sophisticated and in many ways looks at code in a more arbitrary sense than a human looking for the words “I am haxorz” written in the bylines.

B - that last argument went so off the rails I doubt you care about part b anymore.

C - sideloading will realistically always be relegated to a niche almost no-one uses except.

- if you worry about grandma sideloading and getting hacked…. I mean that’s probably the only legit argument I can think of since grandma is always getting hacked and frankly I’m tired of trying to teach her how to detect when someone is trying to steal her money. That said, grandma knows she doesn’t know how to use a computer and kind of hates them and calls me every time she thinks she has a virus (which is ironically usually just a dialog she saw telling her she had a virus she saw online that lied to her and tried to get her to install a virus as a result) and knows to run away from such things and never install stuff when stuff like that happens after years of being trained by the leet hackers of the world to not trust anyone.

- Android has a cool method where they bury sideloading in some weird subpage where you pray to the sun gods and enter the Konami code in order to enable sideloading that’s so out of sight/hidden grandma would need to be on the phone to get the hackers walking her through the process step by step to enable it. Or maybe that was for rooting. I don’t remember anymore. Do that Apple. I mean, sure those same people are just gonna accuse you of abusing your power by burying the sideloading feature you didn’t want into some blackhole of hell but frankly: they were going to do that anyway. And I should know cause I’m one of them.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Google has allowed the sideloading from the start yet people didn't blame them for their own actions. Oh wait, they are Android users. /s

I don’t care what Android users do.