Apple Executives Address Lack of Face ID and Touchscreens on Macs

[jmgregory1]

I haven’t read through all the comments, so it’s possible someone else already mentioned this, but one reason why FaceID on a MBP (or MBA or iMac) doesn’t make as much sense as some would think, is that for anything other than an initial unlock of the device, FaceID would require a key press (or two), such as when you are doing an online purchase, or logging onto secure sites.

There is no way to incorporate it without requiring some keyboard touch, which then makes TouchID an easier solution.

 

[happyslayer]

I've been using the new 14" since Tuesday and I can say the notch is really a non-issue for me. (I realize there may be software out there that does have issues that I don't use, of course, and that this is just my opinion.) Also, I am a computer consultant and have supported several hundred users over the last 26 years and I can say that almost none of them use the touch screen on either their laptops or desktops if it came as an option. Most, like me, don't want finger prints on their screens. Also, as to Face ID, I think the iFixit teardown of the iPhone 13 Face ID system showed that the parts are physically too large to fit within the depth of the MacBook Pro screen. Maybe they (Apple) are still figuring out how to properly shrink the hardware to fit and they are getting us used to the idea of a notch until it's ready. Regardless, this is a nice laptop for sure.

 

[3xBoom]

Just an observation - my friend undergoing chemo cannot use touchID on any of the devices. I guess something happens to the skin surface that makes it less "readable". FaceID is much more adaptable to changes in our appearance.

 

[coumerelli]

Okay but TouchID requires you to consciously change your hand placement. The screen is right in-front of your face so FaceID would require no thought to unlock, it would be instant..

I wish Apple was honest about this stuff rather than coming up with BS excuses. Supply chain issues, lack of space with current FaceID hardware, etc..

I think you're right. They aren't being honest here. But what you described is the precise reason why I do NOT want FaceID on the mac (and why I don't like it for my iPhone either tbh).

With TouchID, if something prompts me to authenticate I read it and decide whether to allow said request. How do you manage that with FaceID? Close your eyes until you are ready to authorize it? Lol. Authentication should never be that automatic. The same thing happens with my iPhone. Never once (maybe) did I put my phone in my pocket unlocked when it had TouchID. But it happens a lot with FaceID now.

 

[kalafalas]

I'm very happy the interface is not designed to bridge both touch and mouse/keyboard. we already saw a ballooning of all the button and padding sizes in Big Sur, and I don't want that to happen again. iOS is perfect for touch, let the iPad do what it does best and leave the Mac to do what it does best. I'm sure apple doesn't mind the double dipping purchases either.

I already regret buying the Magic Keyboard/Trackpad for my iPad, it's just dumb using a pointer on an interface made for touch.

 

[Dev4Life]

These interviews are so pointless because these corporate executives can never respond in a human way, they always respond with corporate talk. Just be honest. However the provided answer is a joke. It is more inconvenient to stop what you're doing to put your finger on the fingerprint sensor then it would be for a face ID. A lot of users are plugged in with a mouse or even external keyboard separated from the device and it's not as easy as your hands just already being nearby the touch ID sensor

 

[XXPP]

"And Face ID? When I stare at the laptop's giant notch"
and authenticate apple pay....

 

[miguelcoma]

When you use a laptop in clamshell mode you have an external keyboard.

Can you buy an external keyboard with TouchID on it?

yes?

ok - next

But we are talking about the Touch ID button on the built-in keyboard that comes with the MacBook - what an absurd argument!

You do know you can buy the same external Touch ID keyboard if you mac has a Face ID sensor. right?

 

[courtneych]

But the Touch ID is not near where your hands are you always have to move it up right to use it, faceid would be better and give us touch screen we want it

Why not give us a choice of all three methods -- Password, Face ID, and Touch ID. Let the user decide which to use, i.e. any one of the preceding, any combination of two for enhanced security, or, for the really paranoid, all three!

 

[Bregalad]

I'll stop what I'm doing and put my arm up in front of my face to touch a spot on the screen then I'll grab a screen wipe and once again put my arm in front of my face to clean off the fingerprints I left behind last time. Yeah totally efficient workflow there. And please jack up the price to include this "feature" I'll disable during initial setup.

Not including FaceID is clearly a "we'll hype it as a new feature next year" move. Long gone are the days when a large number of users disabled their Mac cameras and/or put a piece of tape over them to prevent unauthorized "spying".

 

[macfacts]

Wasn't Steve Jobs against putting touch screens on Macs like how he is against using a stylus during the unveiling of the iPhone in 2007? Or am I remembering it wrong?

Finger touch on macs would better allow iOS apps on the desktop with the next step being Mac os apps on the iPad.

 

[hagjohn]

I would love to have a iPad that had MacOS (with a docking station). I would buy one in a heartbeat but I don't think we will ever see one. Apple likes to dictate what we would like and what we won't.

 

[guavamnia]

But the Touch ID is not near where your hands are you always have to move it up right to use it, faceid would be better and give us touch screen we want it

There is a security issue here. If a malicious application wanted to run as Admin I still need to actively put my finger on the Touch ID sensor, making admin access for someone running as admin on their computer (which most users who own their personal laptop are) come without you taking proactive action. Open a web link with malicious scripts? It just does the check for admin permissions, gets it because you are looking at the screen, and away it goes. Touch ID means you see the prompt for admin access and can evaluate it.

But that's something they need to explain.

 

[sdwaltz]

I understand the lack of touch screen. I do. I really do.

But the explanation for lack of Face ID is one of the biggest cop-outs I've ever heard.
"Mr. Boger said Touch ID is more convenient on a laptop since your hands are already on the keyboard."

You know what's more convenient? Not having to move my hands at all on a $3,500 laptop.

First-world problems I know, and these new MBP's are awesome, but that's a terrible excuse for not including Face ID.

 

[montuori]

MacBooks already have touch input. It's called a trackpad.

Unfortunately it's not even close to the same functionality. The trackpad (or mouse) involves finding the cursor on the screen, moving to the right location, and activating the press. Touchscreens eliminate the need for the first two steps.

Some thoughts:

It's a small fraction of what I use a computer for but there are times (specifically busking lighting during performances) where a touchscreen is really useful because timing matters. It's a pretty specific use-case though I'd imagine there are others (perhaps using Ableton Live, for instance).

Having actually used a touchscreen with a Mini (specifically this one: https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/sho...8ht/apd/210-alcs/monitors-monitor-accessories) I can report that the ergonomics you see in that picture are almost required for it to be useful -- it'd just be awful on a laptop or the iMac as currently designed. What would be really useful though is a Systems Preference for touchscreen where the OS understands that it's a touch and not a mouse/trackpad. Some things get a little weird -- accidentally dragging or double clicking; it seems like these are issues that could be tweaked. Drivers would be nice too: the 3rd party software to make it work isn't cheap.

That said, I'm not sure I'd want to pay the extra cash for the touchscreen functionality every time I bought a new iMac or laptop.

 

[MrENGLISH]

When Apple updated the macOS UI to incorporate toggles, wider bars and space gapes between text in Big Sur, I thought for sure that we would see either a touchscreen Mac or macOS on iPad. And when the latest iPad Pros got the M1 chips, I thought for sure we’d see this come to life when Apple announced Monterey. But here we are and still no touchscreen Macs or macOS on iPad. Not that it can’t happen in the future, it just feels like Apple has one foot in while keeping the other foot out.

 

[Pankeborg]

So... you're saying they were wrong?

They were not wrong to try it, it just didn't work out. Their decision was good. Like in poker, a good call is a good call, even if you lose.

 

[CarlJ]

I cant believe a grammar cop botched his grammar like that…actually I can.

Should I point out the missing apostrophe in "can[']t"? I believe one shouldn't critique grammar and such in the forums here, too much, since there are more here for whom English is a second (or third) language than one might guess. And they certainly do better with English than I'd do with their language.

In the immortal words of Korben Dallas, "Listen lady, I only speak two languages: English and bad English."

 

[El Szomorito]

can you use the Touch ID button on the built-in keyboard on clamshell mode?

no?

ok - next

Uhm... magic keyboard.

 

[darngooddesign]

I believe one shouldn't critique grammar and such in the forums here, too much, since there are more here for whom English is a second (or third) language than one might guess. And they certainly do better with English than I'd do with their language.

it also makes you look like a dick instead of helpful.

 

[miguelcoma]

Why not give us a choice of all three methods -- Password, Face ID, and Touch ID. Let the user decide which to use, i.e. any one of the preceding, any combination of two for enhanced security, or, for the really paranoid, all three!

Because that's not what Apple does. Same reason why there's no iPhones with both Face and Touch ID. It's more expensive to manufacture, and only a tiny userbase would be paranoid enough to use them simultaneously. Design is all about making decisions for the user, not the other way around.

 

[CarlJ]

They were not "wrong". TouchBar was a very cool idea, it just didn't work out in practice. If 100% of your bets are paying off, your bets are not daring enough.

I do wonder how it would have gone over if the TouchBar had been above a row of "standard" functions keys (full height or half height). I think the idea is good, and was worth exploring, but having to look at your fingers to, say, adjust the volume, rather than doing it by feel, was a bad idea.

And replacing the Escape key with a tappable picture of one was a completely brain-dead idea, obviously promoted by someone who has never actually properly used Unix - both Vi and Emacs (and lots of programs that mimic their editing keystrokes, like, say, every shell) require use of the Escape key - it's not a nicety, it's vital. Once they restored the physical Escape key to its corner, I was ambivalent about the rest of the TouchBar.

 

[mansplains]

If using macs with displays clamshell-style were more of a thing I could see FaceID being less useful, but TouchID isn't useful then either. I'm surprised how long it took for external keyboards to have TouchID, I switched to MX Keys for my iMac anyway though.

 

[tubular]

Speaking generally to the reversal of changes this year, Boger told Stern that Apple is always "listening to its customers," which meant it ultimately needed to undo some of its previous Mac design decisions.

In late 2017 I bought the last pre-TouchBar/Butterfly/USB-C-only/no-MagSafe 15" MacBook Pro they still made, mostly as future-proofing because I thought it might be another half decade before Apple made another MacBook Pro in that range worth buying. And, more or less, it was. All four of those decisions are now undone. Hooray! Apple undid what it never should have done in the first place!

That whole mid-decade stretch where they took their eye off the Mac ball -- I wonder how much of that was about being forced into a corner by Intel's product stagnation, hoping Intel would get back on track, and then deciding it was time to hit the eject button?

I don't want FaceID on a Mac. Touch ID conveniently located at the place I put my hands would be fine. Although it would probably mean having the machine learn my pinky rather than my index finger.

Touch screen on a Mac? Nope. Trying to get two interfaces -- keyboard/mouse *and* touch -- to live side by side in one interface is a recipe for confusion.

 

[Scoob Redux]

One of the biggest criticisms of the Mac is the lack of Face ID.

By whom? Tech writers who know nothing about UX.

some have wondered if Apple will ever bring it to the Mac.

Who is "some"? Again, the previously mentioned tech writers.

Another hot topic of debate surrounding the Mac has been touchscreen capabilities.

Debate by whom? Again, those uneducated in user-centered design.

Speaking generally to the reversal of changes this year, Boger told Stern that Apple is always "listening to its customers," which meant it ultimately needed to undo some of its previous Mac design decisions.

Hopefully, Apple will continue to listen to actual users, not tech writers and tech forum denizens, who don't really understand the usability drawbacks of FaceID (it's so much harder to use in everyday life than TouchID) and touch screens on laptops. Apple excelled under Steve because he could simply dismiss absurd suggestions. Unfortunately, under Tim, we saw a lack of vision and leadership that resulted in the many missteps now being corrected on the 2021 MacBook Pro. Apple's resistance to FaceID and touch screens on Macs is a welcome sign that they may actually be following good design principles again, rather than ill-conceived suggestions by random internet personalities.