Apple Expands Testing of OS X Mountain Lion to Select Retail Store Staff

[Mr.Mo]

Fixed Lion WiFi?

It's a long shot, but can anyone confirm if ML fixed the WiFi sleep issues from Lion?

I bought a refurbished Early 2011 15" MacBook Pro with Lion installed. Anytime I would wake it up from sleep (opening/closing the Mac) the WiFi would be gone and it'd be a pain to reset. I tried to love Lion, but it was too buggy for me, especially after using Snow Leopard for over two years

It's a known issue with Apple, and it's software related. I was able to install Snow Leopard on it and haven't had problems since. I'd like to upgrade to ML but I'm still too hesitant...

 

[lostngone]

The only thing I care about is performance and stability improvements. Lion is a bloated and buggy disaster. Every day I use my Mac I regret "up" grading from Snow Leopard. The longer I use Lion the more I hate it and I've loved every previous OS X release to date. I'm really hoping Mountain Lion fixes this mess.

Can you please explain your "bloated and buggy" statement?

 

[petsounds]

changed my opinion.

 

[JAT]

"Such a bane". to you sure. But to a mass number of folks likely not. Only a small cut of folks would ever think to try to full screen an app on only one of a multi display set up. So there probably won't be a 'fix' because it really isn't a major issue in the sense that it is something that affects the majority. Not like say if there was a problem syncing with iCloud, or Safari freezing up, or iTunes crashing.

There is a time to blindly worship every step Apple makes and there is a time to not. Bug reporting is NOT.

This is serious enough to be a complete deal-breaker for me. I'm planning to go from SL to ML. I use my projector and a regular monitor. I often put a movie on the TV and do something else on the monitor. Very common for HT use and even for standard office use to need 2 monitors, and then need all multiple-monitor functionality to actually work.

 

[iDuel]

This is good to know. It never made sense to exclude relevant Apple employees from a preview of the OS.

OT: Is Safari really getting the bump to 6.0 in ML?

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

How should I interpret that "could":

1) it's been done
2) someone might figure it out in the future?

It's been done. I wouldn't want to count on it until the retail version comes out though and even then updates could cause issues down the line. Core Duo/Solo processors are a lost cause as they're 32 bit processors. The bigger issue amongst the unsupported ones that DO have 64 bit processors seems to be graphics drivers. The biggest issue is I think the GMA950 graphics chip in many such models. All drivers for that have been 32 bit (as the systems they were in have always been run by Apple with 32 bit EFI and thus in 32 bit in OS X) so it doesn't work in 64 bit mode and thus Mountain Lion. I haven't looked into it too much though. The machines that I have that are affected by incompatibility are machines that just run Plex clients. One is still running Snow Leopard as I haven't got round to putting Lion on.

 

[cammonro]

One thing I useD often was textedit. Launch it quickly, make a note and that's it....in Lion. In ML, I have an additional step that doesn't really interfere, but it's no longer a quick hop in and out. I had to find something else I can hop in and out of quickly with no step except launch. There also doesn't seem to be an option to tell it to always start with a new document. Annoying.

You should check out Evernote. I highly recommend it. CMD-CONTROL-N gets you a new note instantly - write whatever, tag it if you want and forget it. CMD-CONTROL-E to find whatever you are looking for. Also accessible from every device you own.

I love it. It's my new brain.

 

[mrbyu]

I highly suggest everyone to make a clean install before claiming Lion or Mountain Lion slow or buggy. I'm using Lion on my 8 months old stock MBA 13", and my experiences so far:

1. Slow? - Never. Ever. Not even for a sec, everything is blazing fast. I don't know if it's only because the SSD... so it may be that if you use a HDD you can experience some speed differences between SL and Lion, but with SSD you shouldn't see any kind of lag.

2. Buggy? - Yes, some tiny graphical bugs may occur eventually. But 99 times from 100 it is SAFARI...

 

[cammonro]

I highly suggest everyone to make a clean install before claiming Lion or Mountain Lion slow or buggy. I'm using Lion on my 8 months old stock MBA 13", and my experiences so far:

1. Slow? - Never. Ever. Not even for a sec, everything is blazing fast. I don't know if it's only because the SSD... so it may be that if you use a HDD you can experience some speed differences between SL and Lion, but with SSD you shouldn't see any kind of lag.

2. Buggy? - Yes, some tiny graphical bugs may occur eventually. But 99 times from 100 it is SAFARI...

Lion apparently was written with the assumption that you have very fast disk access (i.e. he MacBook Air/Retina Pro customer base.) If you have an SSD then yes I imagine you would not see the same performance hits. Lion pages RAM to disk like crazy so those of us whose needs require HDD (as in storage capacity) it is point of great frustration. You can disable the dynamic pager via Terminal for this but it is very risky. I purposely upgraded my RAM so my Mac would not require so much disk paging but it doesn't matter. Lion doesn't give you a choice.

 

[ixodes]

Interesting, AFAIK this is the first time they've done this. I suppose it will help for training purposes, though Apple Store employees are aided in that ML is mostly the same as Lion, with a few refinements.

I doubt it's for training purposes.

More like an opportunity to see how many bugs remain and get some feedback from their "silent" sources.

This is a very good plan, that way once it's in the hands of the public it will be well sorted out. Provide a better impression, and create a win/win scenario.

 

[AidenShaw]

No. None of the Windows versions do this.

If you full-screen a WINDOW, it takes up only the screen the window is on. The other screen is available for working on something else. Mac OS X works exactly like this for WINDOWS.

But if you full-screen the entire app which is NOT a window (which in Windows would be full screen games, for example), both OS's work the same.

Maximizing a WINDOW to full-screen and full-screening an APP are 2 different things.

Agree that maximizing and full-screen are different.

Don't agree with your take on how Windows works, though.

Clearly "maximizing" a window doesn't affect the other screens. This is very handy with apps like Photoshop and VisualStudio that have "dockable" toolbars and panes. You can grab a dockable pane, and drag it to the other monitor. Very nice for getting the maximum work area for the image, and the tools bars elsewhere.

"Full screen" mode, for example in a video player - completely takes up one screen, but leaves the other screen untouched. The full-screen window has no decorations, handles or other stuff. The screen is edge-to-edge and top-to-bottom the app window. The other screen(s) are completely usable for random apps.

VMware Workstation (and probably some other apps) take it a bit further. You have the option as to whether "full-screen" applies to one screen or more than one or all screens! (a per-VM setting).

It seems to me that people want Windows' "maximize" behaviour, not what Apple has done.

 

[jasomill]

I've never had to do this with previous version of OSX but for some reason the upgrade from SL to Lion and then to ML was not a success. The system worked but boy was it laggy.

Generally speaking, given that "every system is a snowflake," upgrade installs are a particularly fertile source of newly-discovered bugs in prerelease OS builds.

As for "lagginess" in particular, without violating the NDA, Google confirms that some users were having problems with Spotlight in DP4. Perhaps these issues have been fixed? The prerelease discussion forums on Apple's developer site are probably the best place to start when troubleshooting these sorts of issues.

 

[nateco]

I installed dev preview 4 last night on my 2011 3.1 i5 27" iMac.

So far, no issues.

Biggest thing I've noticed, it feels a lot snappier....it's noticeable.

It's definitely more like leopard to snow leopard than a full point release.

Features are really nice and useful. I'm still getting used to dictation, in fact I'm using dictation to write this post. Dictation seems to work really well, but will take a long time to get used to, you find yourself going back to make corrections with the keyboard.

So far the best feature is mirroring to Apple TV, but I really wish the resolution toggle was easier to get to. I played an avi in fullscreen last night and it played pretty well on the TV...few lags, but nothing serious.

Notifications is much better than growl.

I can see using notes and reminders more now and the sharing stuff in safari seems useful, but I haven't figured out to get my iphone tabs to show up in safari.

 

[acslater017]

The only thing I care about is performance and stability improvements. Lion is a bloated and buggy disaster. Every day I use my Mac I regret "up" grading from Snow Leopard. The longer I use Lion the more I hate it and I've loved every previous OS X release to date. I'm really hoping Mountain Lion fixes this mess.

Yea, I would say that Snow Leopard was probably the peak of OS X features and performance. Lion added some neat stuff, some weird stuff (skeumorphism), and slowed down my machine.

 

[jozeppy26]

Yea, I would say that Snow Leopard was probably the peak of OS X features and performance. Lion added some neat stuff, some weird stuff (skeumorphism), and slowed down my machine.

I recently switched to Mac from PC and I cannot disagree with you more. I realize I never used Snow Leopard on my laptop, but I have spent quite a bit of time with it helping my girlfriend with her laptop. Full screen apps was a must needed feature in OSX. The way pre-lion OSX versions maximized windows was a hot mess. Was the green button ever useful? lol. But seriously, with Lion, OSX is insanely fluid. The only issue I can think of in regards to work flow is with Adobe CS6 and it's lack of native fullscreen support, but that's the fault of the idiots over at Adobe.

 

[NousChristou]

New To Mac OS

I am totally new to the Mac OS so bear with me. On the main Apple site and other tech places, I see that it is going to be $19.99. Is this just a beta tester price, or is it the actual retail price? I don't get it with the cost having been so high in the past.

Thanks for the enlightenment!

 

[nateco]

I am totally new to the Mac OS so bear with me. On the main Apple site and other tech places, I see that it is going to be $19.99. Is this just a beta tester price, or is it the actual retail price? I don't get it with the cost having been so high in the past.

Thanks for the enlightenment!

Lion was a cheap upgrade, as was snow leopard.

Last OS I can think of that was full prices was leopard.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

Yea, I would say that Snow Leopard was probably the peak of OS X features and performance. Lion added some neat stuff, some weird stuff (skeumorphism), and slowed down my machine.

Similar to Intel Tick and Tock scheme, Apple has had the same with every release of Mac OS 10. Features with one release and refinements, speed and various other improvements the following release.

Been using Mac OS 10 since its X.0 release and its quite clear with following releases.

I am totally new to the Mac OS so bear with me. On the main Apple site and other tech places, I see that it is going to be $19.99. Is this just a beta tester price, or is it the actual retail price? I don't get it with the cost having been so high in the past.

The reason for the price drop for Mac OS 10, is due to wider adoption from previous Mac OS 10 versions. It keeps the developers on the recent two releases and allows Apple not waste resources on previous Mac OS versions. Thus allowing more man-power for present and future releases to develop Mac OS and iOS. Apple has to support its end-users and developers and having multiple versions of an OS wastes resources on both ends. By providing Mac OS at an even affordable price, we all win. Since it forces developers to update they apps and use newer technology and feature sets.

Apple makes it money mainly on hardware, I am sure if they wanted they could have provided Mac OS Mountain Lion for 9.99 or even free similar to iOS, however it has to account for development and support to some degree.

Agree that maximizing and full-screen are different.

Don't agree with your take on how Windows works, though.

Clearly "maximizing" a window doesn't affect the other screens. This is very handy with apps like Photoshop and VisualStudio that have "dockable" toolbars and panes. You can grab a dockable pane, and drag it to the other monitor. Very nice for getting the maximum work area for the image, and the tools bars elsewhere.

"Full screen" mode, for example in a video player - completely takes up one screen, but leaves the other screen untouched. The full-screen window has no decorations, handles or other stuff. The screen is edge-to-edge and top-to-bottom the app window. The other screen(s) are completely usable for random apps.

VMware Workstation (and probably some other apps) take it a bit further. You have the option as to whether "full-screen" applies to one screen or more than one or all screens! (a per-VM setting).

It seems to me that people want Windows' "maximize" behaviour, not what Apple has done.

I like all variations of the max and full screen for Windows and Mac OS. People complain because they are accustomed to one version and prefer to not give another a chance, since it takes sometime to get accustomed to the new method. People love to complain rather than adapt, the issue mentioned is not a deal breaker. Adapt, I do not prefer one over the other, it is how the OS is designed.

 

[mojothemonkey]

I'm just sick of these minor "feature" improvements being touted as new OS releases. I never really see anything that is worthy of calling the OS by a new name. Why not just have a Mac OS feature store and allow people to select and install/uninstall features as they see fit, and just let Apple make new features to be added to your OS. (like a Chrome browser extension, or something similar)

At most, these features (for technology compatibility, like to enable support for a new USB standard or to have better compatibility with a cloud feature) are similar to a microsoft OS "Service Pack" release. And MS doesnt charge for those, even if Apple decided to sell theirs for less money these days.

Blah. I fail to see any hype around these releases. Anyone who is "amazed" or otherwise impressed with these "new features" really hasn't been around the tech block. I love a lot about Apple, but this is getting ridiculous.

----------

I am totally new to the Mac OS so bear with me. On the main Apple site and other tech places, I see that it is going to be $19.99. Is this just a beta tester price, or is it the actual retail price? I don't get it with the cost having been so high in the past.

Thanks for the enlightenment!

It's because you're paying for doo-dads and add-ons that could have just been downloadable applications, not a re-coded OS.

 

[AidenShaw]

I am totally new to the Mac OS so bear with me. On the main Apple site and other tech places, I see that it is going to be $19.99. Is this just a beta tester price, or is it the actual retail price? I don't get it with the cost having been so high in the past.

Thanks for the enlightenment!

It's because you're paying for doo-dads and add-ons that could have just been downloadable applications, not a re-coded OS.

And it's also because you've paid far above the average price of a comparable PC to get that half-eaten apple logo on it - so that you've already paid a good sum for the full release of the OS.

It's a false economy to compare Apple OSX upgrade prices to other OSes....

 

[nateco]

It's a long shot, but can anyone confirm if ML fixed the WiFi sleep issues from Lion?

I bought a refurbished Early 2011 15" MacBook Pro with Lion installed. Anytime I would wake it up from sleep (opening/closing the Mac) the WiFi would be gone and it'd be a pain to reset. I tried to love Lion, but it was too buggy for me, especially after using Snow Leopard for over two years

It's a known issue with Apple, and it's software related. I was able to install Snow Leopard on it and haven't had problems since. I'd like to upgrade to ML but I'm still too hesitant...

So far, so good.

 

[Maury]

It's been done. I wouldn't want to count on it until the retail version comes out though and even then updates could cause issues down the line..

Ok, this is very useful, thanks Spanky. I'll hold onto the Pro for a bit longer...

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It's a false economy to compare Apple OSX upgrade prices to other OSes....

I'm not convinced of this.

In the last 15 years software development has become *much* easier due to improved tools, faster computers, better networking, better source control, and the internet's ability to answer any question instantly.

During that time the cost of hardware development has not changed much. CAD/CAE and the internet have helped, and *production* has become much easier, but the design, engineering and testing hasn't changed much at all.

The PC industry has spent a lot of money squeezing every penny out of the production line, and now we all expect to pay nothing for a PC. In reality we've done a much better job on the software side, but for some reason we still expect to pay a lot of money for programs (say Office).

So there's that.

But there's also this... Apple spends a lot of money to develop a new machine that gets them incremental sales. They likely spend more on the OS, but that runs on all of their machines. For that reason alone the OS should be less expensive than the hardware.

 

[Mr.Mo]

So far, so good.

Thanks!

I have a spare drive so I might do a clean install and give it a shot. $20 to upgrade even from Snow Leopard is a good deal. Now I just have to research the battery life of ML (Snow Leopard definitely seems to be more battery-efficient than Lion to me).