Apple Explains Why HomePod Was Released Again, Wi-Fi 4 Limitation, and More

[Allen_Wentz]

Apple has "heard more interest than ever for the acoustics of a richer larger speaker."

Have they also heard more interest then ever in spending $300 for one? Because that was the problem last time, not the HomePod's sound quality or size/form factor.

Well yes, the two things (sound quality + price) are inseparable. If one wants one sh*t sounding smart speaker for voice comms only then a HP Mini or an Echo will suffice, and $300 is too high.

Or if one has an acoustically very good larger space then something like a pair of Sonos + subwoofer properly configured and driven can do a better value job, maybe even sound better.

But if one wants good stereo sound for music in a smallish acoustically difficult space, then a pair of full size HomePods at $300 each is by far the best choice. Good value even if self-balancing competition existed, which it does not.

 

[xmach]

seriously? you seem to understand the stereo pairing issue, so please think about wifi 4 vs 6. What additional benefit would wifi 6 bring? Help you download files faster? Oh wait this is a speaker, the wifi only has to support the bandwidth required for airplay. QED

Wi-Fi 6: lower latency, improved power efficiency. Likely better future compatibility once 802.11n begins to phase out.

 

[Alan Wynn]

In other words a bunch of lame marketing speak that tries to obfuscate real reasons for wifi 4 and lack of stereo mating.

The answer on Stereo pairing is pretty clear, it is really hard to do well for a computational audio system with mis-matched speakers. They did not really give a good answer on WiFi, other than we did not think we needed to provide something better.

 

[jonnysods]

Which means the next release in 2 years features 'now with wifi 6'

 

[ignatius345]

Wfi range and latency if you sync it with other speakers.

Huh. I’m using the original HomePod and neither of these is an issue for me. I can't speak to range because my router is in the same room, but I've never had an issue with latency, using the HomePod with Apple TV or syncing audio with the HomePod Mini in the other room. It's all in sync just fine.

 

[xmach]

The watch couldn't possibly max out the bandwidth of 802.11n, let alone anything faster, so there's no need for faster wifi in the S7 SoC for now.

It’s not just about bandwidth. Latency and power efficiency are also factors. In fact, for the latter reason alone the Apple Watch (which obviously is Apple’s most battery-constrained device) should transition from Wi-Fi 4 to 6 ASAP. And of course lower latency is always a good thing — perhaps this might be relevant for Siri requests, for example.

 

[xmach]

At $299 each, a 7.1 setup would be ridiculously expensive

Perfect reason to offer a reasonable discount when purchasing a bundle of HP’s for multi-speaker setups.

 

[Dylan33x]

it really confuses me why anyone is upset over wifi 4 and not wifi 6, and why none of the writers have pointed this out. it is simply a bandwidth issue, wifi 4 has more than adequate bandwidth to support airplay and therefore wifi 6 would not provide any value added whatsoever. This is like a repeat of the really old appleTV using a slower ethernet. the ethernet selected at the time had more than adequate bandwidth to support the 1080p limitation of the older appleTV, yet there were those whiners who were upset. But really, would it have operated any better? NO. Once adequate bandwidth is achieved, case close, additional bandwidth provides 0 benefit

Simple question. Why did they feel it necessary to put Wifi 6 and BT 5 in the 1st gen? (Somewhat ahead of their time)

 

[NT1440]

It’s not just about bandwidth. Latency and power efficiency are also factors. In fact, for the latter reason alone the Apple Watch (which obviously is Apple’s most battery-constrained device) should transition from Wi-Fi 4 to 6 ASAP. And of course lower latency is always a good thing — perhaps this might be relevant for Siri requests, for example.

There’s nothing a HomePod does that would benefit from the latency improvements beyond n….

Maybe if it was a gaming machine or something, but for streaming music and Siri requests even N is technically overkill, this is just an excellent reuse of the capabilities of the S7 because this device would t actually benefit from faster wifi.

There’s theoretical, then there’s the real world.

 

[Analog Kid]

The damn thing is plugged in and 6 would not be a major difference energy wise.

I'm pretty sure AirPlay is point to point and the power savings is on the phone side. I know it disrupts the whole "I thought about this for 10 seconds and I'm already smarter than Apple" vibe, but...

 

[nwcs]

The answer on Stereo pairing is pretty clear, it is really hard to do well for a computational audio system with mis-matched speakers. They did not really give a good answer on WiFi, other than we did not think we needed to provide something better.

I think that decision should be left to the consumer. If they are about 98% the same to the ear then it should be more than fine for most people to pair. They could even add a little asterisk to say it may not be the perfect sound. I think the real reason is they want people to buy new ones or replace all old ones if they had an old one. At one time I had 3 original HPs but have only one now. Apple has added another barrier to me even considering buying this newer version.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

To a CUSTOMER, "WANT" is what the consumer "WANTS", not some self-serving decision made, with lipstick added to hide the hog, as in the market twaddle used to justify the Apple BOTTOM-LINE-optimized design.

Yeah, it's not OPTIMAL, but what's even less 'optimal' is not being able to upgrade to the new model one-at-a-time, which allows auditioning by the CUSTOMER to see if the change is necessary.

That 'necessary' question is the one Apple has apparently decided in it's OWN interest, not the CUSTOMER'S.

Sorry but some ignorant customer wanting sound to behave a certain way does not make it so; marketing does not transcend physics. Those folks who "want" to create their own ideas of sound physics and "upgrade to the new model one-at-a-time," are not the market for full size HomePods.

 

[Dylan33x]

In real world WiFi performance would there be any noticeable difference in audio streaming? If the HomePod performs is advertised, then all is good.

Comments like this are true, but they miss the point. Why do we pay premiums for Apple products for it to simply be good enough? This wasn’t the case with the company for the past 10 years, until say the past 2. But now, everyone who calls it out is making an unnecessary fuss?

2 things can be true. There are YouTubers & tech journalists who make mountains out of molehills - AND there’s a need to call out Apple for its cost cutting BS. Putting out a premium Home Hub product with WiFi 4 in 2023 is garbage, especially when the one 5 years before it had WiFi 6.

The corpo speak bullsh** answer is just insult to injury.

 

[Dylan33x]

seriously? you seem to understand the stereo pairing issue, so please think about wifi 4 vs 6. What additional benefit would wifi 6 bring? Help you download files faster? Oh wait this is a speaker, the wifi only has to support the bandwidth required for airplay. QED

It’s a home hub, completely wireless speaker. What do you think? It’s that simple.

 

[bankshot]

Apple has since "heard more interest than ever for the acoustics of a richer larger speaker,"

Too bad Apple forgot to hear more interest than ever for Bluetooth and auxiliary inputs.

 

[EricOSU]

I had to look it up and Wi-Fi 4 is 802.11n, one generation before 802.11ac, which is what Apple's discontinued line of wireless routers had when its latest model launched in 2013.

You have to imagine that in the future, older wifi specs won't be broadcast (a lot of newer routers by default don't broadcast 802.11b) for optimization purposes, so by sticking to such old technology, it makes me think users will run into compatibility problems on some networks in the reasonably near future. I know five years is a long time in the tech world, but if you buy a nice shiny HomePod now, you want the option of it working a long time, whether to relegate it to a secondary device in your home, give it away as a working tech product to a friend, or to sell it used to recoup some costs while giving someone the chance to get nice tech at a reasonable price.

You make me laugh at the newer routers aren't backwards compatible. Name 2 consumer wifi routers on the market today that aren't backwards compatible. I'm still calling Apple excuse BS and cheeping out on hardware to make more money. To have a new device with older tech then a device 7 years older tells you were Tim Cook is taking the company.

 

[Analog Kid]

I think that decision should be left to the consumer. If they are about 98% the same to the ear then it should be more than fine for most people to pair. They could even add a little asterisk to say it may not be the perfect sound.

Should the customer dictate this can be paired with the old G4 sound sticks? We know how everyone scrolls to the bottom to see what the asterisk's mean.

It's not about sounding 98% the same, it's quite likely that the the computational audio engines are incompatible because of the differences in hardware.

I think the real reason is they want people to buy new ones [..] Apple has added another barrier to me even considering buying this newer version.

You see how you contradicted yourself from one sentence to the next, right?

 

[Allen_Wentz]

I think that decision should be left to the consumer. If they are about 98% the same to the ear then it should be more than fine for most people to pair. They could even add a little asterisk to say it may not be the perfect sound. I think the real reason is they want people to buy new ones or replace all old ones if they had an old one. At one time I had 3 original HPs but have only one now. Apple has added another barrier to me even considering buying this newer version.

Agreed that the inability to recreate stereo pairs when old matched speakers die (not just Apple speakers BTW) is a PITA. However "If they are about 98% the same to the ear then it should be more than fine for most people to pair" is not a reasonable solution, as it requires defying physics and denigrating the line.

Apple instead should ensure original HP owners like us a path to obtaining old-style HPs; refurbs or whatever.

 

[thelion7]

Although I don’t agree with the marketing speak for answering those questions, I do agree with Apple's decisions.

1. The HomePod gen 2 has the S7 SoC (system on a chip)

This does your CPU, GPU, Bluetooth and you guessed it Wi-Fi. Plus some other bits.

The Bluetooth and Wi-Fi spec on this home pod matches the Apple Watch Series 7 because it's all baked into the chip

To achieve a better Wi-Fi spec, they would have to redesign the S7 to accommodate which is more cost and R&D.

A cost that will go straight on the price tag for customers.

Also Wi-Fi, 4 is more than capable to stream audio and answer Siri requests.

The HomePod doesn't stream video so faster Wi-Fi isn't necessarily needed. However, the only downside I can think of with this is the wireless range but we coped with our Apple Watches that have Wi-Fi 4 and even the S8 chip has Wi-Fi 4.

The S8 is just an S7 tweaked for crash detection and such. Things that a HomePod won't make use of.


2. Because the first and second-gen HomePod have different hardware and silicon. They will inevitably have a different sound signature to each other.

I'm not an audiophile or expert in this field, but I can imagine stereo pairing to speakers with different characteristics will result in a sound that doesn't quite match up.

Basically, something may sound off if the first and second gen were paired in stereo and because the silicon between the two gens have different levels of performance, it could risk one of the speakers falling out of sync and lagging behind the other.

It's just unfortunate, that means we need to buy two-second gens to stereo pair but at the end of the day that's good news for Apple.

Perhaps not the most popular response, but those are my thoughts. 🙂

 

[bayportbob]

I really am happy they brought the big home pod back... the mini just didn't have the sound quality.

 

[WilliamG]

In other words a bunch of lame marketing speak that tries to obfuscate real reasons for wifi 4 and lack of stereo mating.

Thank you for saying it so I didn't need to. I can at least somewhat understand the lack of stereo mating with the OG, given their different sound signatures. But the WiFi 4 explanation is hilariously nonsensical.

 

[Alan Wynn]

They heard requests for a new homepod, but not requests for the ability to place an icon on my screen where I want it? Or for RCS? Or any of the other things people have been begging them for loudly and publicly?

You know how many requests they received for each of those things? You also know how much study of the issues they each would cause? Would you please share them and your source for them?

Getting really tired of companies ignoring what people actually ask them and just say whatever the company line is with no repercussions whatsoever.

I think you meant to say: “Getting tired of Apple not doing what I want, when clearly my needs are most important.”

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Perfect reason to offer a reasonable discount when purchasing a bundle of HP’s for multi-speaker setups.

Not really. Using "a bundle of HP’s for multi-speaker setups" would be just wrong, not what full-size HPs are designed to do. Apple should not intentionally facilitate misuse of the product (even if it might sometimes work).

 

[Jaisah]

In other words a bunch of lame marketing speak that tries to obfuscate real reasons for wifi 4 and lack of stereo mating.

You realise that Wifi 4 is capable of 600 Mbps right? That is way faster than you need to talk to siri or stream music. It's a non-issue and putting more expensive wifi chips in a device that doesnt need it, all while there is a global chip supply shortage, is moronic. Think about it logically instead of just complaining that it doesnt have the "biggest number".

Edit: The homepod mini also has Wifi 4 and when I ask siri to turn on the lights or play music, it's almost instantaneous. For reference, my internet is about 400-800 Mbps depending on the time of day. A faster wifi chip wouldnt make any difference.

 

[Alan Wynn]

I think that decision should be left to the consumer.

If the consumers want to design products and write the software, they can do it, as long as Apple is doing both of those things, that is not how it works.

If they are about 98% the same to the ear then it should be more than fine for most people to pair.

You do understand that this is computational audio. It is not just sending the same thing to both speakers, right? Each speaker needs to analyze the sound and compute the signal. It is hard to do with like systems, it just gets harder and harder as they get more different.

They could even add a little asterisk to say it may not be the perfect sound.

Yup, that would work well. I am sure no one on here would complain about that at all.

I think the real reason is they want people to buy new ones or replace all old ones if they had an old one.

Or maybe it is really hard to do and they do not want to spend development resources on the small number of users for whom that would be an issue. Given the price, these are not for people who want sound that is mostly OK.

At one time I had 3 original HPs but have only one now. Apple has added another barrier to me even considering buying this newer version.

You clearly did not think the original was worth it, so why do you think this one will be better for you?