Apple Explains Why iPhone Mirroring Remains Unavailable in the EU on macOS Tahoe

[Populus]

But… wait wait… all this argument about “The EU will force us to expand it” looks a bit strange when there are already many other features exclusive to the Apple ecosystem. And the most prominent, useful, and frequently used, is AirDrop.

The EU hasn’t forced Apple to make this communication protocol available to other smartphone or computer vendors… why on earth would they do that to something far more complicated such as iPhone mirroring?

 

[surferfb]

But… wait wait… all this argument about “The EU will force us to expand it” looks a bit strange when there are already many other features exclusive to the Apple ecosystem. And the most prominent, useful, and frequently used, is AirDrop.

The EU hasn’t forced Apple to make this communication protocol available to other smartphone or computer vendors… why on earth would they do that to something far more complicated such as iPhone mirroring?

Yes they have. See the section that starts at the bottom of page 99 here:

To meet the requirements of Article 6(7) of Regulation (EU) 2022/1925, Apple should implement an interoperability solution that provides third parties with access to the same features for close-range wireless file transfer solutions as available to
Apple (as described in Section 5.7.1 of this Decision), in a way that is equally effective as the solution available to Apple. For the avoidance of doubt, this includes file sharing between an iOS device and a nearby Apple or third-party connected physical device.

Apple has to allow third parties to build apps that allow them to do what AirDrop does. So, it stands to reason that the EU would require Apple to allow third parties to make apps that mirror in the same way. That absolutely would be a security and privacy risk to Apple's users, as even @AppliedMicro, one of this forums strongest backers of the DMA, agreed.

Sidenote: the above AirDrop decision is a huge security risk too:

In the event that the close-range wireless file transfer solution is not installed on the receiving device, Apple should allow the sending device to discover the paired receiving device, and should allow the user of the receiving device to be informed of an incoming file (e.g. via a notification, app clip, system user interface) and to be guided to the appropriate app store in order to facilitate the installation of the close-range wireless file transfer solution

Bad actors are absolutely going to take advantage of that. How DMA defenders think this is good for users is mind boggling.

 

[Populus]

Yes they have. See the section that starts at the bottom of page 99 here:

Okay, I didn’t know they were going that far with the DMA. Sure, it would be convenient for users outside the ecosystem to use the devices they want but, honestly, if sometimes AirDrop is already a bit stubborn, among native devices, I cannot imagine how would it work with generic devices…

 

[Sophisticatednut]

I disagree wholeheartedly that it’s good that the government can dictate what free stores Apple is forced to give its competitors access to, particularly when Android has 78% of the market and is open. It will absolutely chill innovation and harm consumers in the long run.

If the company licensed its product as a rental property for like 2 years then I would agree the company probably could do whatever it wants.

But Apple isn’t forced to give free access to their store, nore give free access to competitors. Apple must stop actively restricting access and violating the property rights of users.

And you need to actually show some correlation between your statements and expected outcome.

The EU has shown it lacks any ability to think through the consequences of its regulations when it comes to tech, a shame they haven’t learned their lesson after Crowdstrike and ruining everyone’s internet with a plague of cookie popups.

But I suspect we’ll never agree on this.

Well sigh we might disagree. It some things are just factually incorrect.

Microsoft was ruled by court for being anticompetitive and had to stop their practice. It was as much EU as it would be for the U.S federal government for what its court rules on antitrust.

And the cookie issue is the equivalent of you blaming the U.S. government for something Calefornia or Texas law did. GDPR has zero to do with cookies.

Blaming GDPR is as backwards as blaming a U.S. federal law that says you must have consent on the fact your mechanic the asks you to sign a 100 page yellow NDA agreement because Texas law requires it.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Yes they have. See the section that starts at the bottom of page 99 here:

The page starts on 160. That’s the actual requirements spelled out

Apple has to allow third parties to build apps that allow them to do what AirDrop does. So, it stands to reason that the EU would require Apple to allow third parties to make apps that mirror in the same way. That absolutely would be a security and privacy risk to Apple's users, as even @AppliedMicro, one of this forums strongest backers of the DMA, agreed.

Sidenote: the above AirDrop decision is a huge security risk too:

In the event that the close-range wireless file transfer solution is not installed on the receiving device, Apple should allow the sending device to discover the paired receiving device, and should allow the user of the receiving device to be informed of an incoming file (e.g. via a notification, app clip, system user interface) and to be guided to the appropriate app store in order to facilitate the installation of the close-range wireless file transfer solution

Bad actors are absolutely going to take advantage of that. How DMA defenders think this is good for users is mind boggling.

Apple have to provide WiFi access p2p. Apples proprietary protocol that makes airdrop work isn’t made available.
Edit:
And right below. Point c

• Apple shall allow the end user to set the same options and preferences in settings for third-party close-range file transfer solutions, including selecting between “Everyone” and “Contacts only” and adjusting the time limitations of the Everyone Mode, as are available to Apple. Apple shall treat these settings in the same way as it treats settings for its own close-range wireless file transfer solutions, such as AirDrop.

And considering I can’t receive unwanted airdrops unless I actively attempt it then the security threat your promoting up seems wildly disproportionate.

And just how you might revive right today an illicit airdrop containing a compromised file or links you to an inappropriate website.

 

[AppliedMicro]

ruining everyone’s internet with a plague of cookie popups.

The real plague is the copious amount of such advertising/tracking cookies.
Designed to creepily stalk internet users’ every moves.

And it’s predominantly U.S. American 🇺🇸 (not European) advertising companies that have €₦$h؋₺₺؋ƒ؋€₫ the internet and brought about this pest on us.

Action and re-action.

Sidenote: the above AirDrop decision is a huge security risk too:

“In the event that the close-range wireless file transfer solution is not installed on the receiving device, Apple should allow the sending device to discover the paired receiving device, and should allow the user of the receiving device to be informed of an incoming file (e.g. via a notification, app clip, system user interface) and to be guided to the appropriate app store in order to facilitate the installation of the close-range wireless file transfer solution”

Bad actors are absolutely going to take advantage of that

Read carefully:

“Apple should (…) allow the user of the receiving device to be informed of an incoming file (e.g. via a notification, app clip, system user interface) and to be guided to the appropriate app store in order to facilitate the installation of the close-range wireless file transfer solution”

👉 Receiving device = iOS: the app has been vetted and approved by Apple (as they reserve that right) for distribution.
And Apple-approved apps are as safe as it gets - that’s Apple’s claim (that only they can guarantee that), isn’t it?

👉 Receiving device = Android: it’s really not Apple’s business what applications Android users install. And Apple just needs to allow that receiving device to inform the user. How, that is up to its manufacturer or operating system..

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Sidenote: the above AirDrop decision is a huge security risk too:
Bad actors are absolutely going to take advantage of that. How DMA defenders think this is good for users is mind boggling.

Easy. It means I can AirDrop to my Windows desktop. In what world is making my devices work better together a bad thing?

 

[AppliedMicro]

See the section that starts at the bottom of page 99 here:

It's an interesting (albeit a bit technical) read. Surely can't say that the European Commission wouldn't communicate with Apple how to comply with legislation (and just wait to fine them for noncompliance) though, can you?

Sidenote: the above AirDrop decision is a huge security risk too:
Bad actors are absolutely going to take advantage of that. How DMA defenders think this is good for users is mind boggling.

As I read that, there's nothing preventing Apple from releasing an Apple AirDrop™ for Android app.

They could even sell it on the Play Store. (If they're willing paying a cool 30% commission to Google, of course)
That would allay the concerns of the brand loyalists, wouldn't it?

PS: Or, see the post by @ProbablyDylan that just beat me to it, for Microsoft Windows, of course.

 

[AppliedMicro]

I think Apple has shown that a large percentage of consumers benefit from (and desire) a closed ecosystem where the platform owner makes opinionated decisions on behalf of its customers

I disagree with only one word here: "closed".
Freedom of choice and openness are per se always better for consumers.

The closedness of the ecosystem is not the customer benefit.
It's the integration - or "seamlessness" - how it all ties and works together that is the true customer benefit.

Openness and integration are not mutually exclusive.
If you can buy every app from the Apple App Store - but I can buy it somewhere else, we both benefit.

The EU, in its infinite wisdom, disagrees consumers should have that choice. They think they know better than the market does.

They correctly concluded that there's a lack of choice in ecosystems - and interoperability.

Added complexity, etc. can certainly make things worse for users. Not everyone is a technology enthusiast posting on MacRumors.

Having a well-integrated platform does not mean lower complexity.

• No user of the Spotify, Netflix or Kindle apps wants to go to their developers' respective web site to buy something. It only adds friction and complexity. And the underlying reason is Apple's prohibition of in-app or link-out sales/transactions at reasonable prices (e.g. the same prices Uber is paying).
• There very simply reality is that not everyone's friends and family use the same operating system. But people still want to share files between their personal devices, for instance. On the go. Without an infrastructure mode Wi-Fi network, possibly. Apple withholding access to APIs that allow for close-range wireless file transfer again adds friction, difficulty and complexity

But it discourages innovation, leading to worse products in the long run.

So do Apple's policies. In a big way.

• When half of smartwatch buyers have an iPhone to manage their watch (because, let's get real, hardly anyone uses their smartwatch as a stand-alone product), Apple withholding essential communication and features from competing smartwatches discourages innovation by third parties.
• When Apple create their phones in ways that make the Apple watch the only sensible choice for iPhone users, that discourages innovation. And that leads to worse products.
• The same is true for many other markets they've begun competing in (i.e. music streaming). When Apple can impose a 30% tax on all of their competitors, that discourages innovation, over the long term.

👉 Apple are not the only potential innovator. And their trademark "integration" is not the only type of product innovation.

I don’t think piracy facilitation benefits anyone but software pirates. And that’s all 99.9% of people who use retro emulation use it for

Maybe. It was just an example.
But it's relatively popular and gamers are quite a vocal (sub)set of customers.

And I wouldn't buy Apple's argument that they just did it due to piracy concerns. Not one bit.
Retro emulators can affect their bottom line in gaming transactions.

If you prefer another example, look at how Apple "choked" game streaming apps.

I’d argue the features gained by the tiny minority that will use them isn’t worth the security and privacy harms, as well as restrictions on features for the vast majority of Apple’s customers,

I'd argue that the EU just concerns itself with the most egregious instances where Apple stifles competition and innovation.

 

[surferfb]

All of you assume every user is technical and competent like you are. That couldn’t be further from the truth.

EU citizens are going to be harmed by bad actors due to these regulations. And the EU will claim “Apple never told us” just like they did when they forced Microsoft to give kernel access to everyone who wanted it. There’s a reason Android gets so much more malware - and the EU is bringing that to iOS because either they don’t know what they’re doing or don’t care.

And all of you will blame Apple instead.

 

[surferfb]

It's an interesting (albeit a bit technical) read. Surely can't say that the European Commission wouldn't communicate with Apple how to comply with legislation (and just wait to fine them for noncompliance) though, can you?

As I read that, there's nothing preventing Apple from releasing an Apple AirDrop™ for Android app.

They could even sell it on the Play Store. (If they're willing paying a cool 30% commission to Google, of course)
That would allay the concerns of the brand loyalists, wouldn't it?

PS: Or, see the post by @ProbablyDylan that just beat me to it, for Microsoft Windows, of course.

Bad actor sends an “airdrop” request to unsuspecting person who doesn’t know any better. Maybe it’s a state actor and a really convincing; maybe it’s just a lower level criminal and the end user doesn’t know any better. But the EU requires Apple to present a link to download the app to hose the user’s device. You and I wouldn’t fall for it, but millions absolutely will.

Thanks EU! And the user will blame Apple, not the idiot bureaucrats in Brussels who can’t think through the consequences of their actions.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

But the EU requires Apple to present a link to download the app to hose the user’s device.

Couldn't Apple get ahead of this by making the AirDrop app themselves? I can't imagine they'd be interested in "hosing" non-Apple devices.

 

[Madonepro]

Bad actor sends an “airdrop” request to unsuspecting person who doesn’t know any better. Maybe it’s a state actor and a really convincing; maybe it’s just a lower level criminal and the end user doesn’t know any better. But the EU requires Apple to present a link to download the app to hose the user’s device. You and I wouldn’t fall for it, but millions absolutely will.

Thanks EU! And the user will blame Apple, not the idiot bureaucrats in Brussels who can’t think through the consequences of their actions.

And yet they (EU) do nothing about performance car brands, charging thousands of dollars, for the remote to their cars, and won't allow them to be made, or reprogrammed by anyone else. Of course, don't bite the hand that feeds you.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Bad actor sends an “airdrop” request to unsuspecting person who doesn’t know any better. Maybe it’s a state actor and a really convincing; maybe it’s just a lower level criminal and the end user doesn’t know any better. But the EU requires Apple to present a link to download the app to hose the user’s device. You and I wouldn’t fall for it, but millions absolutely will.

Thanks EU! And the user will blame Apple, not the idiot bureaucrats in Brussels who can’t think through the consequences of their actions.

Please open the AppStore, click on any random app and see what options you have in the share menu. Tell me if you can airdrop it.

You already can do this. You’re explaining an existing exploit….

And I didn’t know airdrop was on by default :O another big current exploit then…

 

[Zukeru]

Do you, american users, really believe the bulls**t lies trump fed you? EU doesn't over-regulate, it actually has consumer protection laws that make sense and make the consumer benefit first not the corporations. And don't forget to thank the EU for the many nice things you have on the iPhone thanks to the EU including USBC. To Apple I have just one message: F U for punishing EU consumers who pay not just the same price but actually a bigger price for apple products while receiving less functions!!!

 

[delsoul]

Many Americans felt this way long before Orange man was even a thing. Here’s a novel concept. Americans could care less if Apple didn’t switch to USB-C. Why? Because we under the concept of if we don’t like it, we simply buy something else. Instead of moaning til the end of time that a company needs to change their ways for us, we simply say that’s okay, we’ll go buy from your competitor. Money talks. Maybe not in the EU, but at least in North America it does.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Americans could care less if Apple didn’t switch to USB-C. Why? Because we under the concept of if we don’t like it, we simply buy something else.

You’ve been lamenting for weeks (on this forum) about the shoddy, uninspired state of Apple’s software.
And yet, eventually, you’re going to need to get a new phone to get your life together.

The reality is, that smartphones serve a myriad of functions today.
And they are not bought just for one particular function (or feature).

And there’s just not much choice in software ecosystems for smartphones.
Or connectivity/charging solutions for phones. What would the consumer have bought that liked iOS but didn’t want to be inconvenienced by an outdated Lightning connector, when an iOS/USB-C phone simply wasn’t available on the market?

It’s of course debatable whether a jurisdiction should go into regulating small ports on phones. But “voting with your money” is not the ultimate and final answer to corporations providing the products people want (or that are better for the environment).

Markets fail. Often. They fail to provide features a majority of people want - or what’s good for the environment - all the time.

 

[Abazigal]

Do you, american users, really believe the bulls**t lies trump fed you? EU doesn't over-regulate, it actually has consumer protection laws that make sense and make the consumer benefit first not the corporations. And don't forget to thank the EU for the many nice things you have on the iPhone thanks to the EU including USBC. To Apple I have just one message: F U for punishing EU consumers who pay not just the same price but actually a bigger price for apple products while receiving less functions!!!

Well, as the saying goes - there is good in bad, and there is bad in good.

Methinks there’s a reason why all these tech giants originate from the US and not the EU.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Well, as the saying goes - there is good in bad, and there is bad in good.

Methinks there’s a reason why all these tech giants originate from the US and not the EU.

The U.S. being one cohesive nation. EU isn’t a cohesive country but made up of 27 countries who still dictates most internal affairs.

Imagine if the federal government nolonger could dictate inter state commerce. Imagine if every state applied a 40% goods tariffs on the other states, and a 100%~ service tariffs.

Being a great EU tech company from the Netherlands doesn’t mean you can expand in to Germany or France easily etc.

 

[surferfb]

The reality is, that smartphones serve a myriad of functions today.
And they are not bought just for one particular function (or feature).

Yes, and like every other product, you weigh the pros and cons based on the offered features and then make a decision that makes the most sense for you.

And there’s just not much choice in software ecosystems for smartphones.

There’s even less choice now in the EU that Brussels has mandated both ecosystems must operate the same way. Before we had open and closed. Now we just have open with all of the downsides that brings.

Or connectivity/charging solutions for phones. What would the consumer have bought that liked iOS but didn’t want to be inconvenienced by an outdated Lightning connector, when an iOS/USB-C phone simply wasn’t available on the market?

Then you decide what’s more important to you - iOS or USB-C! You’re not entitled to have companies make bespoke devices just for you.

It’s of course debatable whether a jurisdiction should go into regulating small ports on phones. But “voting with your money” is not the ultimate and final answer to corporations providing the products people want (or that are better for the environment).

“Voting with your money” is absolutely the final answer, particularly when the alternative is having government chilling innovation by having bureaucrats make product decisions they’re not qualified to make. That applies to hardware and software. For proof, see the history of Eastern Europe.

Markets fail. Often. They fail to provide features a majority of people want - or what’s good for the environment - all the time.

They do a massively better job than the government does.

 

[surferfb]

Couldn't Apple get ahead of this by making the AirDrop app themselves? I can't imagine they'd be interested in "hosing" non-Apple devices.

I’m more concerned with a bad actor sending files to Apple users, who are used to a secure system the EU has ripped away, especially since the EU is mandating a “click here to download the app to get this file” link.

And they just wave away Apple’s concerns. There’s a reason there’s so much more malware on Android, but like giving third parties kernel access, the EU doesn’t know what it’s doing. You’d think they’d learn their lesson after Crowdstrike, but I guess nothing is ever the regulation’s fault.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

I’m more concerned with a bad actor sending files to Apple users, who are used to a secure system the EU has ripped away, especially since the EU is mandating a “click here to download the app to get this file” link.

And they just wave away Apple’s concerns. There’s a reason there’s so much more malware on Android, but like giving third parties kernel access, the EU doesn’t know what it’s doing. You’d think they’d learn their lesson after Crowdstrike, but I guess nothing is ever the regulation’s fault.

Now we all know no compromised apps won’t be shared

Apple Removed Apps Infested With Screen Reading Malware

Information on new "SparkCat" malware infesting a small number of iOS apps was shared yesterday by Kaspersky, and shortly after the report...

www.macrumors.com

Yes, and like every other product, you weigh the pros and cons based on the offered features and then make a decision that makes the most sense for you.


There’s even less choice now in the EU that Brussels has mandated both ecosystems must operate the same way. Before we had open and closed. Now we just have open with all of the downsides that brings.


Then you decide what’s more important to you - iOS or USB-C! You’re not entitled to have companies make bespoke devices just for you.


“Voting with your money” is absolutely the final answer, particularly when the alternative is having government chilling innovation by having bureaucrats make product decisions they’re not qualified to make. That applies to hardware and software. For proof, see the history of Eastern Europe.


They do a massively better job than the government does.

Voting with your speech or paying governments is also a form of answer 🤷‍♂️. The company in question can always do the same or go to other markets. A company isn’t entitled to international sales

 

[AppliedMicro]

There’s even less choice now in the EU that Brussels has mandated both ecosystems must operate the same way. Before we had open and closed.

Closedness is not a benefit. And not a beneficial choice. And when there’s only two relevant operating systems to begin with, neither is choice lost. On the other hand, the EU enables more choice in software - and more choice in peripheral hardware.

Then you decide what’s more important to you - iOS or USB-C! You’re not entitled to have companies make bespoke devices just for you.

That doesn’t benefit me as a consumer.

Neither does having to choose between either a good (better) smartwatch with (more) features I like or good integration with my existing phone OS - just because Apple withholds connectivity and integration from competing smartwatch manufacturers.

I want both: my preferred smartwatch with my preferred features - and good integration with my phone.
And that also ensures healthy competition in the smartwatch market - it benefits consumers.

👉 monocultures do not benefit consumers

They do a massively better job than the government does.

And that’s why the EU leaves most features and characteristics of products (including pricing) up to markets and competition.

They’re just gently smoothing out the most anticompetitive “rough edges” (which were created by largest, dominant companies) in the market through limited regulation.

 

[AppliedMicro]

I’m more concerned with a bad actor sending files to Apple users

You’re overcomplicating things, when those bad actors can - much more effectively - do the same by offering you downloads on a website - or sending you things by email.

Also:

👉 The feature literally existed on iOS for years. And supposedly wasn’t a security problem with AirDrop.

 

[AppliedMicro]

who are used to a secure system the EU has ripped away, especially since the EU is mandating a “click here to download the app to get this file” link.

…which has been in existence for many years.

I don’t know how long exactly.
But ten seconds of googling brought this up from 2019:

https://github.com/merlos/iOS-Open-GPX-Tracker/issues/137

👉 Not been a “security” issue for Apple when it helped them make money through App Store commissions.

But now that it may make users use other file sharing mechanisms and reduce dependence on Apple’s proprietary AirDrop - and make Android phones more attractive options when your friends or family uses iOS, it’s allegedly a huge issue.

And they just wave away Apple’s concerns

👉 And rightly so, when Apple’s concerns are - yet again - just a pretence for more anticompetitive conduct and to shut out competition and interoperability.