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Apple Exploring New Glass Panel MacBook Keyboards That Could End Sticky Key Problems
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I've got two Lenovos. X230 I made into a hackintosh and a T480 I use for some Windows testing. I don't see what's so great about either of those keyboards. Both are far behind the older macbook pro's. Between the 2017 MBP and the T480 I can't really say which one I dislike more. They are both usable for light use, but if you really want to get work done I need to hook up an external keyboard to each to be able to actually do my work without having to watch the screen to see all the lost keypresses. Or I can go full berserk on the keyboard and feel my fingers aching for having to bang on the keyboard way too hard to make sure I don't miss any keypresses.
Doesn't matter. I know Apple won't go back to good keyboards, but this new stuff is something I'm not even considering. I rather move full on to the Lenovo. Or XPS, or whatever else. They all have way crappier touchpads than Mac but at least they still have keyboards.
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If the laptop experience is important to you, give dragging an external keyboard around with you all day a spin. While the butterfly keyboard makes you want to kill someone every time you hit a key, it's still better - if only barely - than having to lug around that external keyboard. This wasn't a discussion about desktop setups.
As you may at some point realise, it's been easy enough to drag around a laptop with a perfectly good keyboard for years. Lenovo had it for some. Apple had it. It's just that Apple decided it's too good, so they prefer to make a courageous choice of making the device 0,001mm thinner by destroying a perfect setup. Never had issues with the old keyboard but I do keep my coke and coffee to myself, I don't let my machine have any no matter how hard Siri whines. I've had one 2016 keyboard fail already and have had several stuck keys in this 2017 model because of dust. Usually it's fixable with a can or four of compressed air but that's not really something I drag with me everywhere I go and I'd rather just see the computer work - like it did for a decade - than have to fix the keyboard every few days. Nothing better than realising all of a sudden you'e not able to use the r key at all. It's vey vey iitating!
Been there. Done that. Believe it or not, the 2016 MBP is my first laptop in a while that I haven't had to lug a keyboard around for. Every Apple laptop keyboard in the Unibody and Retina lineup were painful for me to use so I've brought my own for years.
I can type on the butterfly keys without pain. That won me over to this keyboard. I hated it at first. It does have some issues still, but it has some merits too.
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15 pages of comments, and almost all of them negative. Do you think anyone at Apple is paying attention?
My current MBP is getting pretty long in the tooth, and I don't know what to do. I can't fathom going to a Windows machine, but the Macs are all broken.
My current MBP is getting pretty long in the tooth, and I don't know what to do. I can't fathom going to a Windows machine, but the Macs are all broken.
I have a MBP 15” 2017, and I hate the keyboard. I write about 50% as fast on this keyboard than on my old MBP 2011, that had the best laptop keyboard ever invented!
They day Apple bring the old keyboard back I’ll buy a new machine! Not that that will ever happen though...
Bring me a 2015 MBP with today’s standards and we are all good!
They day Apple bring the old keyboard back I’ll buy a new machine! Not that that will ever happen though...
Bring me a 2015 MBP with today’s standards and we are all good!
I was clinging to a 2012 Unibody. My criteria for upgrading was the first MBP that gave me 5K monitor support. That was what I was waiting for so I went for a 2016 MBP as soon as they became available even though I hated the keyboard. No regrets. I need to get my work done. It's rare that my equipment suited me perfectly anyway. Ever since I gave up my desktops for a laptop, I've had to augment every machine I've owned one way or another.
I didn't buy my 2016 MBP for the keyboard or avoid it for the keyboard. It wasn't the most important factor of the machine for me. Fortunately for me, I eventually ended up liking the butterfly keys once I got used to them and stopped carrying an external keyboard around.
NOBODY wants thinner Macbooks that no one can use!!
Apple sacrificed thinness for functionality.
Who cares how thin is a Macbook Pro if you cannot type on it!!
A laptop that was best in class has become a running joke and Apple refuses to change the design 3 years now despite all the problems.
Apple.
Yesterday's technology
At tomorrow's prices
I hope so. I love my PC, don't get me wrong, but moving my development environment to Windows just isn't possible, and not something I'd want to do even if it were. I sincerely hope the rumored 16" MBP is Apple's attempt to once again cater to their professional market.
If all you want is the thinnest laptop possible, get the Air. We're talking about the Pro, meant for business purposes. When it comes to business I'll gladly sacrifice a little a little form for improved functionality.
I hope Apple solves this problem. This is the only reasonable way I see to bring a changing display to the keyboard.
I had a "membrane keyboard" once, back in 1980's on an Atari 400. I think they called it the "peanut butter proof keyboard" or something like that.
A couple months later I convinced my dad to buy me an Atari 800.
I'm not going backwards for you, Apple.
A couple months later I convinced my dad to buy me an Atari 800.
I'm not going backwards for you, Apple.
I still believe this would be much much better than those membrane keyboards. Take iPad keyboard for example.
If they can achieve similar haptic feedback than on the touchpad, it might work quite well. Add that to moulded glass panel with discernible keys, but no mechanics... and you have a dust proof laptop keyboard. You know, similar to all other keyboards except the butterfly ones.
If they can achieve similar haptic feedback than on the touchpad, it might work quite well. Add that to moulded glass panel with discernible keys, but no mechanics... and you have a dust proof laptop keyboard. You know, similar to all other keyboards except the butterfly ones.
I really wish they would just go back to the old mechanism. Typing on my 2015 mbp was like typing on tiny pillows. It was also a lot quieter.
The new butterfly keyboards are extremely noisy and it's like typing on cardboard.
The new butterfly keyboards are extremely noisy and it's like typing on cardboard.
Apple is never ever going back to scissor keyboards. Forget about it. It's not their "DNA". Which is great in many aspects. This is how the industry got rid of DVD-ROMs, COM ports, etc. This is how we'll get rid of USB-A. Apple is really creating a path here.
But on the other hand... butterfly keyboards, touchbar, lightning (and not going to USB-C), iOS on iPads in general (which was fine 5 years ago but not anymore). It sometimes feels like they designed themselves into a corner and don't have the "courage" or strategy to get back to basics for the next iteration.
But on the other hand... butterfly keyboards, touchbar, lightning (and not going to USB-C), iOS on iPads in general (which was fine 5 years ago but not anymore). It sometimes feels like they designed themselves into a corner and don't have the "courage" or strategy to get back to basics for the next iteration.
I think one of the ideas that was brought up by some people in this thread is that butterfly keyboards may not be the endgame and they may not be pursuing thinness necessarily as a fashion ideal first and foremost. Both may be bridges to something else. If they are considering something with an all glass typing interface, then what they're doing with the touchbar and the ultra flat typing surfaces begin to look more interesting.
Then again, it'd be very easy to draw connections between developments when none actually exist. From where we sit, it's impossible to know when someone is attempting to play 3D chess and when they're really just furiously trying to design themselves out of a hole that they dug themselves into.
Most people here are firmly of the opinion that Apple has no idea what they're doing without Steve Jobs to tell them what the future looks like. They may well be right. I just find it more interesting to assume that they're a mature company that knows how to employ people who are thinking of things I can't see yet and that their outlandish iterations will eventually seem less outlandish as the target goal of what they're ultimately trying to achieve becomes more obvious.
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The 2018 model is a lot quieter than the 2016 and 2017 versions though I have to admit as a mechanical keyboard lover, I kinda like the klacketyness of the pre membrane butterfly keyboards.
It's a lot like typing on cardboard at first, but a lot of people really end up liking it once they get used to it. It requires a different touch than typing on scissor keys. Scissor keys themselves also need a slightly different touch from people who were used to the full size keyboard typing experience. And you get into the world of mechanical keyboards and you'll find additional subgenres of typing experiences and switch types that are loved and reviled by different people.
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If the people in charge do not share or understand that kind of thinking, it doesn't help much.
Apple sells products. Products to be used. Both personally and to make money. They don't sell prototypes. Samsung is in that business now. Either way users demand machines, that are useful. Not some murky promises of a better iteration somewhere along the way. Leave that to the politicians.
Yes, that wouldn't help, but how do you know that the people in charge don't understand that kind of thinking or that the world of Internet experts actually understand things that Apple's executive board can't figure out?
Have you ever even used a new Apple laptop in the last few years?!
It's just a shadow of the "quality meets innovation" that they used to be. Quality went down, down, down. Innovation is almost non-existent. But the price doubled. So yes, I will draw that conclusion that Apple went from being "think different" to "sell the same".
I owned a 2016 MBP. I sold it and bought a 2018 MBP.
I've had plenty of Macs fail on me. That record of impeccable quality with innovation that everyone seems to remember as fact was never my experience.
The new ones have some deep flaws. There's are things I don't like, but a lot I really like too. I like the direction they're going, but find their execution to be lacking.
I'm actually in the same boat. Owned a 2016 MBP, Apple replaced it after 5th failed keyboard with a 2018 model. I do appreciate the gesture, but time, productivity and nerves lost is much more than the value of the entire laptop for me.
I do like a lot about the new machines too, yet I cannot but admire the build concept of the old 2013 MBP, which my wife now uses.
The old one feels like a tool. The new one feels like a consumable.
I do like a lot about the new machines too, yet I cannot but admire the build concept of the old 2013 MBP, which my wife now uses.
The old one feels like a tool. The new one feels like a consumable.
What happened when you had keyboard failures? Did they ever fix themselves or did you take it in as soon as it hit a problem?
I had some intermittent issues on my 2016 MBP. One or two keys would jam or become unresponsive for a few hours to a few days every few weeks. This went on for a year. I just used an external Bluetooth keyboard if it got too annoying. I actually hated the keyboard so I was using an external keyboard most of the time anyway.
I ended up getting used to the keyboard and really liking it. At least in my case, I found that once I started using it all the time, the keys stopped jamming. The last jam was around the 1 year mark. In the 15 months that I had it after that, it never jammed again despite greater use and some intentional mild abuse.
About that intentional abuse... the battery was degrading ahead of schedule so I decided to type extra extra hard, eat around it, and never clean the keyboard to try and get it to fail. If I was going to end up with a new keyboard anyway, I figured I should put the old one to the test.
I did this for about 2 months. It survived... with one exception. I hit the keys so hard that I broke the binding on one of them and the keycap became removable.
Original lasted the longest. I never took it back immediately, except twice, when the keyboard was broken upon receiving the laptop with a brand new topcase. Troubles were intermittent, but never went away. It got much worse while laptop was heated up (FCPX rendering for instance).
Now I have a 2018, which has had double trouble for a few months, but I simply cannot afford to take it back, because it takes 3-4 weeks to replace the topcase.
The first touch screen PDA I bought in 2001 was horrible. I’m glad I bought the iPhone when it came out.