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Apple Exploring New Glass Panel MacBook Keyboards That Could End Sticky Key Problems
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hmm interesting. While I like keyboards with travel, I would be interested to try this type of keyboard. The haptic button on the iPhone 8 and the MacBook track pad is very realistic. A single piece glass keyboard that you can type on by lightly touching each key and receiving a little feedback could be pretty cool...if it worked. And it paves the way for a more sealed unit, and an easier to replace keyboard.
I'd love to, but the RAM is soldered in (can't add more according to iFixit). Wish I had been more mindful (or could have seen into the future) at my time of purchase, but what's done is done. The RAM is my biggest issue. The SSD still works great. I would replace it with a newer, larger SSD, but don't want to waste the money if I can't upgrade the RAM. It's a great computer aside from that so very disappointing.
Like I said, if they drop the $300 Touch Bar option on any of the upcoming models I will hop on that and load up on RAM (unless it is upgradeable). I need it for some of the CAD programs I am using now that I didn't use back in 2013.
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Ugh. Last year I got a mint '15 MBP and was patting myself on the back because I figured I'd just save myself some cash and wait until they fix the keyboard and/or move to an A series chip but now it looks like they're moving to an even worse keyboard? Why can't Apple see out of their design 'bubble'? Innovation at all costs, to end users, doesn't feel like innovation it feels like an aggravating side step.
The article mentions two patents—one design a solid sheet of glass and the other with egresses. I was commenting on the the former. I suppose Apple's egress keyboard might have some merit. I mean, it has been used before ....
After taking a second look at the mechanics of the two, I think Butterfly is (supposed to be) the improvement on the scissor technology you are looking for. Maybe it's just the shorter travel that makes these so unreliable and not the tech itself. Why the silicon layer in gen 3 didn't resolve the issue and how many issues there still are compared to gen 2 and the 2012 version, I don't know.
I guess they could go back to a slightly thicker keyboard (with or without Butterfly, I don't see why there would be a difference), or find a solution with sealed keys like this glass keyboard could be. Knowing Apple, they will go for the latter. It's just a shame the Butterfly didn't work out like they hoped.
EDIT: Reading some of the posts in this thread I see that a number of people experience issues that were likely caused by something other than 'breadcrumbs', a theory would be heat. Whether or not that is caused by the short travel (and therefore having too little room for error) I don't know. Some strong indicators the Butterfly is flawed in other ways though, I did not know this before.
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I would be totally fine with the butterfly switches if they improved travel and resolved the reliability issues. For me, the travel was challenging, but it was having two keyboards fail (on both the 2016 and 2017 models) that pushed me over the edge. And to clarify further, one of these machines remained connected to an external display, running in clamshell mode, and was not subjected to dust or other particles and still failed, so your theory may be correct as I assume there wasn't an opportunity for anything to make it under the keys.
At the end of the day I think we want the same thing here, we're just approaching it two different ways. All I really want to see is Apple cater to the professional market more adeptly; I don't mind dropping $5k on a MacBook Pro -- it's the device that helps me make a living -- I just want to be sure that money is buying the quality and features I've come to expect from a professional machine.
The last really good Apple keyboard was the Apple Extended Keyboard with Alps switches. Everything since has been downhill.
Man. I still have an AEKII from the early 90's. I have to wholeheartedly agree with you. Everyone raves about Cherry switches, but there was a quality and feel to those Alps switches that just hasn't been replicated. Sadly my AEKII stopped working many years ago, but it's still one of my favorite keyboards (if not my favorite of all time). It's also the keyboard I learned to code on, so it holds a special place in my little, Apple-shaped heart.
i just want a keyboard that works consistently
a glass keyboard is good enough, just it seems like apple would turn a MBP into an iPad with a file manager. Maybe a good thing?
recall the failed Black Berry smart phones. their main marketing ploy was is mechanical keys?
a glass keyboard is good enough, just it seems like apple would turn a MBP into an iPad with a file manager. Maybe a good thing?
recall the failed Black Berry smart phones. their main marketing ploy was is mechanical keys?
Failed in clamshell, apparently that’s happened to more. Weird, shouldn’t all machines fail sooner or later if this can happen? The problem is bigger than I thought initially.
Here’s for hoping the glass keyboards provide a great typing experience, are reliable on the first try and can be retrofitted to all MacBooks with butterfly keyboards
Failed in clamshell, apparently that’s happened to more. Weird, shouldn’t all machines fail sooner or later if this can happen? The problem is bigger than I thought initially.
Here’s for hoping the glass keyboards provide a great typing experience, are reliable on the first try and can be retrofitted to all MacBooks with butterfly keyboards
I would be fine typing on keys made out of chocolate cake if it felt like a real keyboard and didn't fail after 6 months. Here's to hoping they course correct and can fix the problems. I'm cautiously optimistic, for sure.
I like the new keyboard but going back to my 2011 MacBook Pro and I have to say, the keyboard is the tits.
USB-c would be nice IF they would make the adapters and dongles 90% cheaper many people use old peripherals. Reliable TB3 docks are multiple hundreds of dollars in most cases. Adding to an already overpriced machine with barely the capacity to run at its own full potential. The spiders just get longer and more legs.
I've used zero-travel keyboards and they are literally a pain. I hope Apple will provide finger "dongles" - some sort of rubber dome finger attachment to soften the ten thousand impacts our flanges incur from each hour of typing.
Not sure why apple's top priority for a pro machine is how thin can you make it. What about durability? Performance?Great keyboard? Usable ports! Bring back the old keyboard. I bought a used 2013 MBP on eBay rather than get stuck with one of the new models after trying out the 2017 version. The new keyboard is brutal.
Apple is exploring a new keyboard design that could eventually replace its butterfly switch MacBook keyboards and finally solve the problem of "sticky" or inconsistently functioning keys.
Issues that Apple has acknowledged can occur with some current MacBook keyboards are widely believed to be caused by dust or other particulates getting lodged in the butterfly mechanism underneath the keycaps, which are shallower than those on previous-generation MacBook and MacBook Pro keyboards with traditional scissor switch mechanisms.
In its 2018 MacBook Pro models, Apple quietly introduced a thin silicone membrane underneath keyboard keys, which is an attempt to solve the issue of dust and crumbs from getting stuck. But a new patent suggests the company is researching a totally new approach to the way keyboards are designed that could eradicate the problem for good.
Published last week by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office and first spotted by AppleInsider, the patent application called "Computer with keyboard" describes a keyboard that replaces movable keys with a glass sheet that includes raised sections to designate the tactile location of individual keys.
When a raised key section is pressed, the keyboard detects the input pressure for that key and processes as a typical key press. The concept differs from the featureless plain of a virtual onscreen keyboard because the raised sections allow the user to feel where their fingers should rest in relation to the individual keys.
Raised glass key concepts from Apple's patent application
The patent describes how an additional level of tactile feedback could be provided by a raised side wall around individual raised keys that could deform with each press, while an underlying layer could serve to "push" the key back into place.
Meanwhile, key symbols could lie on a separate later underneath the glass panel, which would make it easier to change the layout for different regions, languages, or even applications. The patent also proposes using side sections around the keyboard that could double up as a trackpad.
As expected, the glass keyboard could have the effect of making the keyboard thinner and allowing more room for other components to be housed in the notebook chassis.[*]How to Get a MacBook or MacBook Pro Keyboard Repaired Free Under Apple's Service ProgramApple has filed patents for keyboards in the past, included one that uses a touchscreen panel similar the Touch Bar, but that extends to the entire keyboard layout, but this is the first patent to emphasize the use of individually raised glass elements that mimic traditional tactile feedback.
Article Link: Apple Exploring New Glass Panel MacBook Keyboards That Could End Sticky Key Problems
USB-A to USB-C adapters can be had for $1 or less. Just look around on Amazon or eBay. I have those little endcaps on most of my devices now. It's actually more of an issue for me that there aren't any USB-C port replicators to allow you to gain additional USB-C ports. I have enough thanks to my LG 5K having an additional 4 USB-C ports in it.
I've got a lenovo "dock" for usb-c that has a front USB-C port on it. maybe an option?
I just hate this "here's a further cost solution to do what you did yesterday today, exactly the same"... it's frustrating even if it's not that unenforceable.
It's the same whenever the standards change. People had to get USB-COM and USB-LPT adapters. Few years go by, nobody cares anymore. I would say that the largest number of USB devices are memory sticks. These will become obsolete because of cloud storage. Everything else is just peripherals, which will be obsolete sooner or later.
I use it for calling and texting my most frequent favorites. Once you've arranged your Favorites list so that your four most frequent contacts are at the top, selecting them by mashing on the app icon is much faster than opening the app and scanning through a longer list. In Drafts and Day One, I use 3D touch to start a new note, either typed by voice-transcribed. Not all developers put useful options in 3D touch menus, but it's worth spending 10 minutes going through your most frequently used apps to see what they offer.
I used butterfly keyboards for two years between two models, the 2015 12" MacBook, and the 2017 13" MacBook Pro. I never reached the point of liking them, but I resigned myself to adapting to them, considering the unlikelihood of Apple reverting to scissor keyboards. Then something happened. I was in an Apple Store and happened to see a 2015 15" that they were still selling at the time. On a lark, I started playing with the keyboard just to remember what it was like, and instantly my Stockholm syndrome vanished, and I suddenly remembered that I used to actually like typing. I bought a 2015 that week, and haven't looked back.
The low travel of butterfly keyboards is only their most obvious problem. The main change that drove me nuts was the wider keycaps with almost no gaps to distinguish neighboring keys. I honestly can't remember typing a full sentence on either of those laptops without at least one typo. Once you start anticipating a typo by every third word, the very thought of typing starts to evoke low grade anxiety. I could probably live with butterfly switches if the keycaps were sized and spaced like the previous models—which explains why so many critics of Apple's newer keyboards give the Magic Keyboard a pass.
been through so many changes in standards. I get it. I'm not apposed to the USB-C ing of things. I'm more of the balanced time based approach to minimize the disruption to workflows.
We're still in a hybrid time, where we have to bridge tech. happens for all migrations. So going 100% all in for USB-C, without anything else will cause some additional compromise.
I feel like Apple's decision to go 100% USB-C for the MBpro's was the result of a purposeful shift to force purchase of accessories, rather than a more natural migration to the new tech. They could have easily still provided in the MBPro's for example a single USB-A and SD card slot. but they chose not to.
A more natural shift example would be the Dock connector to Lightning. Apple needed to move. there was no question/doubts there. the Dock connector was a real barrier. And there was no possible way to natural migrate with both. putting lightning + Dock for a short while was just not going to be possible. So a hard cutover was necessity.
The forced shift to all USB-C just wasn't natural like that above.
After reaching a point, where Apple's flagship device - the iPhone - cannot be connected out of the box with ANY of the laptops Apple produces, sadly, I have to agree with you...
Also you made a very good point how this transition is different.
Life's about change, brother. Change is a headache, but it sure beats being dead.
People around here keep complaining that there isn't enough innovation and then turn around and complain about change. You can't have one without the other.
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If the typing experience is important to you, give an external mechanical keyboard a spin. While I like the butterfly keys, I only like them in the context of a laptop keyboard. The gulf between a keyboard constrained by the portability demands of a laptop and a no compromises mechanical keyboard is huge.