Apple Eyes Intel and Samsung as Backup US Chipmakers

[MacRumors]

Apple has held "exploratory" talks with Intel and Samsung about manufacturing the main processors for its devices in the United States, reports Bloomberg ($).

Apple is said to have had early-stage talks with Intel about using its chipmaking services, while Apple executives have reportedly visited a Samsung plant under construction in Texas that will also make advanced chips.

The talks are said to be preliminary, and no orders have been made so far, according to the report's sources who asked not to be identified. Apple is also said to have concerns about using technology that is not made by its longtime chip partner, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC), so the talks could still go nowhere.

Apple is said to be seeking potential additional suppliers beyond TSMC as a way to avoid recent shortages almost entirely driven by the current build-out of AI data centers.

Heavy demand for Mac mini and Mac Studio models - sought-after because of their suitability for running local AI models - is also said to have been another factor. On an earnings call last week, Apple CEO Tim Cook acknowledged that Mac mini and Mac Studio supply is constrained, and he said it may take "several months" for Apple to achieve supply-demand balance.

Neither Intel nor Samsung can reliably provide the kind of production and scale that TSMC offers, so it's not clear how much, if anything, will come out of the discussions. Apple has already worked with TSMC to help expand its plant in Phoenix, which is now producing a limited number of chips for Apple and expects to make 100 million chips for the company in 2026.

Article Link: Apple Eyes Intel and Samsung as Backup US Chipmakers

 

[Nyx1]

Stay with TSMC Apple no matter how much the cost until the bubble AI burst.

 

[Jonas Danielsson]

Oh no we don’t want to go back to intel x86 and they not even supported anymore what else should intel make a n-processor when they making theirs old junk x86 indent really get this

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

Why are wafers round rather than square?

 

[Justin Cymbal]

Diversification is key, I can’t believe how fast intel turned it around, a year or two ago, it was practically going out of business:

Intel’s best day since 1987 leads the US stock market to more records

A surge for Intel following a blowout profit report led the U.S. stock market to more records, while oil prices kept yo-yoing in the wait for what’s next with the Iran war.

apnews.com

 

[Will Co]

Why are wafers round rather than square?

If memory serves, it's because they are sliced or "pared" off a cylinder of silicon substrate, the substrate itself being cylindrical because the manufacturing process is one that involves spinning. I can't remember why, but I think probably to reduce waste and improve uniformity.

 

[Justin Cymbal]

Heavy demand for Mac mini and Mac Studio models - sought-after because of their suitability for running local AI models - is also said to have been another factor

I’m surprised that there is so much more demand for the Studio over the Mac Pro - even though it’s basically the same processor (M-Ultra) and enough of a disparity for Apple to warrant discontinuing it a month ago:

Mac Pro Discontinued: Reflecting on 20 Years of Apple's Desktop Tower

Apple this week announced that it has discontinued the Mac Pro, with new configurations no longer available and no further models planned. Below, we reflect on nearly two decades of the Mac Pro. 2006 to 2013 In August 2006, Apple introduced the original Mac Pro, which was an Intel-based...

www.macrumors.com

 

[Wanted797]

Oh no we don’t want to go back to intel x86 and they not even supported anymore what else should intel make a n-processor when they making theirs old junk x86 indent really get this

… this is about using their facilities to manufacture Apple chips. Not buying x86 chips.

 

[SuperSimp]

I'd love to see Intel making chips in the US again and companies like Apple support it. There are too many risks globally with the current setup (sadly).

 

[DBZmusicboy01]

AI is the biggest abomination to happen to mankind in the past 100 years 😤
It has destroyed the entire technological industry 💔 for many reasons and even YouTube is being flooded with many AI videos pretending to be real videos and lots of slop.

I don’t think there will be a Mac Mini refresh this year due to the huge shortage of chips. I think intel would be a great partner once again for the low end devices. But I do worry about it being on iPhone Pros and M series Mac Mini’s / Books
Mac Mini Neo would be fantastic for intel 👌🏻

 

[syklee26]

Can Intel make 5nm much less 2nm?

 

[SuperSimp]

AI is the biggest abomination to happen to mankind in the past 100 years 😤
It has destroyed the entire technological industry 💔 for many reasons and even YouTube is being flooded with many AI videos pretending to be real videos and lots of slop.

I don’t think there will be a Mac Mini refresh this year due to the huge shortage of chips. I think intel would be a great partner once again for the low end devices. But I do worry about it being on iPhone Pros and M series Mac Mini’s / Books
Mac Mini Neo would be fantastic for intel 👌🏻

I'm not so sure. Companies are finding out the hard way the impact of laying off their actual experienced, competent staff. Turns out them assigning heavier workloads to staff who aren't qualified still leaves them liable in court for when these things have real world impacts harming people. For that reason they're back tracking now and re-hiring.

AI is only as useful as the person whose hands its within and for the right person, with experience in tech, it can still boost efficiency and accuracy.

I agree with the YouTube AI slop.. at least Google is committed to coming down heavy on this and eventually will probably fix it. There have been some laughs along the way... ever hear of 'AI Fruit Love Island' on there? ...

 

[DanneP]

Oh no we don’t want to go back to intel x86 and they not even supported anymore what else should intel make a n-processor when they making theirs old junk x86 indent really get this

Of course Apple isn't going back to x86. It is obviously not what this is about.

Why are wafers round rather than square?

Because something called silicon ingots.

Can Intel make 5nm much less 2nm?

They are currently on their 18A process node and they have some new stuff for their 14A coming up in a couple of years or so, with a bit of luck Intel has made the right call and they might even get ahead of TSMC.

 

[JeffPerrin]

Lately, this whole thing reminds me of when Apple was left at IBM/Motorola's mercy in the 90's. I wonder if it will get to the point where Apple will need to consider buying/building/taking over a fab for their own... 🤔

 

[The_Gream]

Personally, though I know they are a business, I feel TSMC is doing Apple dirty. Apple has been one of their biggest customers, even supplying money to TSMC for R&D to expand their business, and companies like Nvidia who are riding/leading the AI train are taking the lion’s share of the production, but I haven’t heard of any investments from Nvidia on improving TSMC or any other chip manufacturer production abilities.


Edit: (May 5th). Did a little searching. Apparently Nvidia made an investment last year of 5 billion. Apple made a 2 billion is 2014 and 25 billion last year. Nvidia has 30+ years of partnership with TSMC, but I wasn’t finding any other info for other investments.
Tim Cook is a supply chain guy. Apple has made multiple investments over the years to their supply chain, to secure their needs to meet customer depends. Some of them have been caught using hardware Apple paid for, being used to make competitor products.
I know I would have a bad taste in my mouth, if I had made investments into a supply chain partner, to then find out I can’t up production when demand was higher than expected because their long-term friend was using up the vast majority of the production without making similar investments to increase the potential volume like I did over the years when I was hit with production bottlenecks that my product demand created.

 

[paulvee]

AI is the biggest abomination to happen to mankind in the past 100 years 😤
It has destroyed the entire technological industry 💔 for many reasons and even YouTube is being flooded with many AI videos pretending to be real videos and lots of slop.

I don’t think there will be a Mac Mini refresh this year due to the huge shortage of chips. I think intel would be a great partner once again for the low end devices. But I do worry about it being on iPhone Pros and M series Mac Mini’s / Books
Mac Mini Neo would be fantastic for intel 👌🏻

What it has done to memory and storage prices is obscene. SSDs - 2.5 and NvME form factor - have more than quintupled, sometimes much more, just in the last year. It's shocking. There needs to be a corollary to Moore's law.

 

[Jonas Danielsson]

… this is about using their facilities to manufacture Apple chips. Not buying x86 chips.

… this is about using their facilities to manufacture Apple chips. Not buying x86 chips.

Yeah but this is what I don’t get… Intel years behind Apple Silicon, especially with TSMC in the mix. And if Intel actually has the know-how, why don’t they just make their own version like an Intel M5 or something?

 

[uacd]

AI is the biggest abomination to happen to mankind in the past 100 years 😤
It has destroyed the entire technological industry 💔 for many reasons and even YouTube is being flooded with many AI videos pretending to be real videos and lots of slop.

YouTube was slop ever since it was created.

AI is nothing but a human creation. It was trained on real examples of what humankind creates. And indeed, lots of stuff “real human artists” have created is nothing but slop, just not AI, but human ©️

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

If memory serves, it's because they are sliced or "pared" off a cylinder of silicon substrate, the substrate itself being cylindrical because the manufacturing process is one that involves spinning. I can't remember why, but I think probably to reduce waste and improve uniformity.

Thanks!

 

[DelayedGratificationGene]

Maybe this is a little nudge to TSMC too start prioritizing Apples needs before these ridiculous data center monstrosities needs. TSMC also needs to remember that the future of AI is the Edge(Apple) and not the Cloud(Nvidia).

 

[BBCWatcher]

Neither Intel nor Samsung can reliably provide the kind of production and scale that TSMC offers, so it's not clear how much, if anything, will come out of the discussions.

TSMC also reportedly cannot reliably provide the kind of production and scale Apple wants. That's why Apple is talking with Intel and Samsung.

 

[HaHaRich!]

Since Apple designs its own chips, as long as the fabricator can do it to spec at affordable yields, it doesn’t matter who makes the chips to anyone but the shareholders of the fab. Also, Apple doesn’t just make the M & A series processors and GPUs. With the Watch S series, Headphone H chips, and their new Cell and Networking (WiFi/ Bluetooth/ NFC/ etc) chips, being tied to one manufacturer is a significant logistical nightmare. Being able to shop around chip runs like they do screens would be a huge component help

 

[Will Co]

AI is the biggest abomination to happen to mankind in the past 100 years 😤
It has destroyed the entire technological industry 💔 for many reasons and even YouTube is being flooded with many AI videos pretending to be real videos and lots of slop....

In the UK, the BBC is today running an article on it's News website explaining wether people should use AI to help them make a decision about elections. Short answer, and obviously, "Nope". But it shows how concerned "the establishment" is that AI might be used to sway an election.

Ironically, the sort of people who are likely to consult AI before anything else are precisely the sort of people who will not read the BBC News website. But that's another story.

 

[HaHaRich!]

If memory serves, it's because they are sliced or "pared" off a cylinder of silicon substrate, the substrate itself being cylindrical because the manufacturing process is one that involves spinning. I can't remember why, but I think probably to reduce waste and improve uniformity.

Yup! Take incredibly clean sand, pour it into a tube and heat it until it melts. Then take hot molten silica sand and spin it around. The gunk in the sand gets spread to the outer edges, leaving the pure silicon closer to the center. Slice the tube to get round disks, that’s your wafer. Chop it up into squares, discard what you can’t sell, but you get “grades” of quality, almost like beef; again, purest stuff in the center is worth more, with some impurities in the middle ring, and hopefully most of the low quality stuff on the other edges.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Can Intel make 5nm much less 2nm?

Would Apple be entertaining having them make chips if Intel couldn't do them right?