Apple Faces $2 Million Fine over '4G' iPad Marketing in Australia

[Portaluk]

Why is there so many xenophobic comments attacking Australians.

Apple is just a company, albeit a very large powerful one, no matter how many people "love" its products and blindly follow it, it is not above the law of any country.
The fine against Apple, which reading between the lines Apple will not appeal against and has fully accepted, was issued by a court of law. Apple has therefore failed to adhere to the laws put in place to protect consumers from false advertising, if there was the slightest doubt then Apple would be appealing. The blame is 100% with Apple which Apple has accepted.

 

[FrizzleFryBen]

What started as a thread on a specific marketing error quickly descends into a showcase of American arrogance.

Sadly I agree. It's a shame that many Americans go strait to bigotry as they did in this thread. I'm not sure where the hatred for Australia came from all of the sudden. Although, if it was Kazakhstan, they would say the same things. Damn you Borat!

 

[Portaluk]

In my opinion...

I'm sure the iPads marketing campaign would have gone through the legal department before final approval by some senior executive. So either Apple knew they were misleading their customers or someone made a massive error of judgement.

Doesn't matter how small the fine is (relatively speaking), its a situation they shouldn't be in and internally an individual or some department will most likely be held accountable for its actions.

 

[kodeman53]

It's a shame that many Americans go strait to bigotry as they did in this thread.

Imagine the bigotry if this thread were about European soccer, but then that wouldn't provide the same opportunity to bash 'many Americans'. Talk about bigotry, look in the mirror.

 

[Lancer]

I'm a big Apple fan, been using the Mac for 20 years. Got an iPhone and getting a new iMac when they come out. But I do blame Apple, one little word 4G cost them $2 million. Does Apple think they can market a 4G product around the world that that only world in the US/Canada.

Also if it's such a problem to make a version that works in Australia and many other countries on the same frequency as us then how come their arch rival Samsung (and others) now have 4G phones and tablets on sale here, and they actually work at 4G speeds.

 

[WhoNet]

Next time I am down under, I'll treat everyone to a skippy burger at Burger King. [/QUOTE]

On a side note. Australia is the only country that Burger King is not called by
the Burger King name. In Australia it is known as Hungry Jacks. We love being
different.

 

[Abazigal]

Are you really that myopic? Really?

The iPad 3 works just fine on all of the LTE networks in Canada.

I think it is pretty idiotic that various countries around the world could not have worked together to agree upon one or two frequency bands for LTE globally and that Verizon LTE is somehow a different 700Mhz band than the 700Mhz band AT&T uses.

Sadly, I agree with you.

My country's 4G will not be compatible with the ipad either.

It doesn't help that my 3G is more like 2G, and the upcoming 4G is probably what 3G should have been.

I have no complaints though, as I bought the new ipad knowing fully well it would run only on 3G (it was even mentioned on the news). Seriously, how hard is it to do a little research before you commit to a purchase of a thousand dollars?

 

[alexgowers]

I still don't get why 4G isn't a worldwide standard, perhaps they should go further back and look at who made the operating frequency choices.

The ipad is a 4G device for certain 4G frequencies, unfortunately for apple advertising it as such when it's not compatible with all frequencies should and right be fined.

The type of small print advertising used here is illegal and should be stamped out no matter who you are and what rule you break, consumers are misled by big bold statements that should never exist! I mean I'm sure 99% of us have been duped by unlimited statements from ISPs or providers at some point. When clearly unlimited means infinite and is an advertising term that should never have been allowed in any context.

+1 for common sense.

 

[HangmanSwingset]

lol blame the carrier?? are you serious?

I'm saying that (most) carriers should adopt the same frequencies for their signals for worldwide compatibility purposes. I don't see much of a point in using a different frequency for the same technology. It would lower production costs of communications chips, along with relieving previously stated compatibility issues.

That being said, Apple should have known better to advertize it as '4G' when they knew there were compatibility issues. What I'm trying to say is that the compatibility issues should not have been there to begin with, so in reality it's both parties at fault.

Also, it is true that it is very difficult to get a worldwide standard going when cellular companies in different countries operate independently of each other. It's really difficult for every one of those to look around and choose what frequency is appropriate for their service. Eventually each one would have to settle for one or two frequencies. It should be easier, but sadly it's not.

 

[kdarling]

I still don't get why 4G isn't a worldwide standard, perhaps they should go further back and look at who made the operating frequency choices.

The same thing happened with UMTS-3G.

People were worried that 3G devices wouldn't work in multiple countries, because of all the different frequency bands being used.

And, in fact, it was several years before we saw multi-band GSM phones that could work most anywhere.

I'm saying that (most) carriers should adopt the same frequencies for their signals for worldwide compatibility purposes. I don't see much of a point in using a different frequency for the same technology. It would lower production costs of communications chips, along with relieving previously stated compatibility issues.

The problem is the same as it was with 3G: the same frequenices aren't free at the same time, all around the world.

It's not the carriers' fault as much as with the governments of the world, and really, even more with legacy uses.

Heck, here in the US the 700 MHz band wasn't available for auction until we gave up analog TV signals.

 

[Adidas Addict]

F'kin criminal colony, who gives a crap what them inbreeders are moaning about?

 

[Asia8]

Australia has this funny little thing called "the law", it's there (in theory) to protect the people. This law is states that you must not use "false or misleading representations". This is very misleading, if 4G is available in Australia and the product says it supports 4G throughout the Australian marketing campaigns, when in actuality it does not work there in the fashion described, it is misleading.

They're not just getting the fine because of the "mistake", they're getting the fine because instead of an apology they decided to fight it denying they had misled Australian consumers and tried to battle it out. - they lost

The fine may not be much to Apple and may not be a whole lot to the Australian government, but it's putting a notice/reminder out there for all companies that it doesn't matter who you are, how big you are, or where you're from, that deceptive practices are not allowed in Australia.

I'm confident that if Apple tries it again the fine wont just be 2 million.

The fine has nothing to do with the company being apple, it just happens to be apple who was breaking the law this time and who tried to fight to the right to use misleading practices. - That just doesn't work

Read more about the law:
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2010C00623/Html/Volume_1#param377

If you really want to talk about injustice however, let's look at ugg boots, an age old type of Australian shoe. One American company - "Ugg Australia", has managed to do an international trademark on the word "ugg", a traditional Australian work so that in most countries Australians can no longer sell their ugg boots or uggs using the traditional terminology. For some stupid reason the American government upheld the trademark for the American company destroying international sales of this product for real Australians.

Even more stupidly, other countries seem to be holding up the trademark too.

 

[spl456]

apple messed up here. Selling a 4g device to the whole world that only works in 1 country? So the whole world is behind the us?

almost all 4g networks across the world work on slightly different frequencies.

if an australian or british company made a claim to something and it didn't work in the us because of a slight difference in technology, you lot we be the first to bitch about it and sue the companies for miss selling.

better still - support more frequencies? Or the one the rest of the major markets all use?

Bingo!

 

[afroAnt]

if an australian or british company made a claim to something and it didn't work in the us because of a slight difference in technology, you lot we be the first to bitch about it and sue the companies for miss selling.

Amen!!

 

[mttbsstt]

Missed the point.

"Analogy, is a BlueRay disc still a BlueRay disc if you don't have a BlueRay player, but instead only a DVD player?[/QUOTE]"

Not a true analogy, more accurate would be buying a bluRay disc and finding that for some reason your BluRay player was incompatible with it, you'd rightly be annoyed by this. The Australians have a 4G network, just currently not compatible with Apple's 4G devices, something that Apple was surely aware of but failed to make transparent.

As much as I love Apple it is a very unreasonable person who cannot admit that they dropped the ball in this case.

 

[dokujaryu]

Apple didn't do their research and make the new iPad work with it. To then advertise that it does is false advertising. There are consumer protection laws in place to prevent this.

LTE is not a 4G network by the definition of 4G by the governing body that defines such things, ITU-R. Neither is HSPA+ or DC-HSPA, but all of them are marketed as such. Just because it is "fast", you don't just automatically qualify to call it 4G. All of those technologies are built on 3GPP. So technically you should be suing every handset manufacturer and carrier in Australia that ever said anything about 4G. Be it 4G LTE or plain ol' 4G.

Or do you? It seems to me that everything that is HSPA+ and faster has been marketed as 4G. Why? Because ITU-R said that the candidate systems for 4G, which includes HSPA+ and LTE are "kinda sorta 4G". My theory is that they did this because their definition of 3G was far too broad for the marketing majors working at the telecom companies.

Fun fact: EDGE is considered 3G to ITU-R and is marketed as 2.5G when they want to say its good, and 2G when they want to make fun of a competitor. Maybe it's 2G LONG TERM EVOLUTION . What happens when I have a great EDGE signal and a ****** CDMA signal and EGDE is beating CDMA. Is EDGE now "real" 3G and CDMA actually more like 2.75G?

I have been of the opinion for a long time that the "G" moniker is now poisoned due to the poor handling by the ITU-R. As such, I feel that all "G" terminology should not be used to specify the expected speed of a mobile device. The expectation I have over a new "G" is that it is around 3x faster than the previous G. Had it been handled properly, the speed of HSPA+, especially in the 42mbit range, is plenty to qualify for 4G. The speeds of LTE in the +100mbit range seem more like a 5G network.

Instead, what has happened is marketing departments across the world have defined a term that you can't use properly because it will make your device seem slow, and you can't use improperly (like everyone else) or you get sued.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

LTE is not a 4G network by the definition of 4G by the governing body that defines such things, ITU-R. Neither is HSPA+ or DC-HSPA, but all of them are marketed as such. Just because it is "fast", you don't just automatically qualify to call it 4G. All of those technologies are built on 3GPP. So technically you should be suing every handset manufacturer and carrier in Australia that ever said anything about 4G. Be it 4G LTE or plain ol' 4G.

Might want to point out that they did change it to 4G after pressure from the Carriers. HSPA+ by the governing body is 4G. So is the current LTE tech.

 

[Frosticus]

I can understand the gripe that some people have regarding this as misdavertising (not all "4G" networks are the same etc.) however, I think Apple will be very careful for the floodgates to not open if they concede to paying these fines.

 

[dokujaryu]

Might want to point out that they did change it to 4G after pressure from the Carriers. HSPA+ by the governing body is 4G. So is the current LTE tech.

I explained my take on it in the very next paragraph. However, if you want, here is the actual quote from the document they released on the subject:

"As the most advanced technologies currently defined for global wireless mobile broadband communications, IMT-Advanced is considered as “4G”, although it is recognized that this term, while undefined, may also be applied to the forerunners of these technologies, LTE and WiMax, and to other evolved 3G technologies providing a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities with respect to the initial third generation systems now deployed. The detailed specifications of the IMT-Advanced technologies will be provided in a new ITU-R Recommendation expected in "

So any substantial level of improvement over the initial 3rd generation systems can be called 4G, you know, if you want. You know, becuase we haven't strictly defined 4G... even though... you know... we did define it at 1 Gbit/s peak bit rate. But because we can't even begin to deliver that until 2013... erm... yeah, sure, if it's faster than 3G in 2007, it's 4G.


If only ANSI was this accommodating!

 

[kd5jos]

Stoopid

Uh... What's your point? Their networks are not compatible with the new iPad, so there is no service in Australia that can connect with the iPad's 4G hardware. Thus, the iPad effectively doesn't have 4G. That's the point.

Stop. No, the iPad has 4G. PERIOD. I can point to the hardware, it is in the case soldered on the board. What this is, is a temper tantrum. I wonder how many articles that show, "when the new iPad is released, it will only be compatible with 4G in the US," existed before it was marketed in Australia. I know, consumers can not be expected to be intelligent enough to figure out that a tech will not work for them.

Just because it's a T.V.'s it'll work no matter what country it's in, right?

Either the term 4G means a grouping of technologies (covering every countries 4G), or everyone that is using it needs to be sued (Australian "4G" won't work in the U.S., therefore it isn't 4G).

The good news is 2 million dollars might as well be $2 to Apple.

And no, this isn't trolling, this is anger with stoopidity (so bad it gets 2 o's).

To further prove my point, that would be as stoopid as some one in the U.S. suing because there is no 4G service where they plan to use their iPad. Onus is on you to have a brain and NOT assume. But, I'm sure enough people will bitch that this won't be the case...

----------

"Analogy, is a BlueRay disc still a BlueRay disc if you don't have a BlueRay player, but instead only a DVD player?

"

Not a true analogy, more accurate would be buying a bluRay disc and finding that for some reason your BluRay player was incompatible with it, you'd rightly be annoyed by this. The Australians have a 4G network, just currently not compatible with Apple's 4G devices, something that Apple was surely aware of but failed to make transparent.

As much as I love Apple it is a very unreasonable person who cannot admit that they dropped the ball in this case.[/QUOTE]

The service (BluRay Disc) isn't compatible with the hardware (DVD player). It's an almost prefect analogy. Especially when the first is marketed as digital media, and the other is a digital media player. That's how vague the 4G "standard" is.

 

[WestonHarvey1]

I'm actually quite disgusted at the Americans posts on here about Australia. You are doing your country a disservice and making yourselves look incredibly narrow minded and racist.

Americans are taught from a very young age that it is not possible to be racist against white people. Good white American liberals wouldn't dare be caught saying something about a black person, but you'll hear them constantly stereotype about the intelligence of American Southerners, the dentistry of the British, how drunk Irish people get, and now apparently Australians aren't safe from them either.

 

[kd5jos]

You're right, and so what?

I'm an American. Apple screwed up and should be fined. US customers would ***** bricks if Apple launched a device that only worked as advertised on European frequencies.

You are right, I would be pissed that it worked only on Euro freq's. And to show how pissed I was, I wouldn't buy it. I WOULD NOT throw a temper tantrum, and sue Apple for not making a U.S. version.

I know this because I haven't sued game makers for not making an American version of a game, amateur radio manufacturing companies for not manufacturing a U.S. version, etc...

No, attacking someone for technical incompatibility, after NONE was promised (at least I haven't found anything that says, "works with Australian 4G"), and customers didn't do a little due diligence before purchase of a product... file it under stoopid REGARDLESS of where the court is.

And for the record, I love Australia. I had the pleasure of interacting with some Australian Spec Forces once. Those are some crazy bastards.

 

[danahn17]

On a side note. Australia is the only country that Burger King is not called by
the Burger King name. In Australia it is known as Hungry Jacks. We love being
different.

I'm pretty sure it's called Hungry Jack's not to be different but because when Burger King wanted to enter the Australian market, they found there was already a restaurant that had trademarked the Burger King name and therefore needed an alternative name.

Why is there so many xenophobic comments attacking Australians.

Sadly I agree. It's a shame that many Americans go strait to bigotry as they did in this thread. I'm not sure where the hatred for Australia came from all of the sudden.

Maybe it's not the Americans... but a bunch of New Zealanders stirring up some trouble. (random Flight of the Conchords reference) But seriously, I don't think most Americans are like that... what I've noticed is that whenever someone "attacks" Apple here (justified or not), all the Apple fanboys just fight back. Same thing happened with Samsung / Korea. So much insecurity... :T

 

[WestonHarvey1]

On a side note. Australia is the only country that Burger King is not called by
the Burger King name. In Australia it is known as Hungry Jacks. We love being
different.

I also get a kick out of how you call everything a "burger" even if it's chicken. And how all toppings are "salads".

The first time I went to an Australian Subway, the lady asked me "What salads?" and I was like, "No, uh, I don't want a salad I... ohhhhh"

 

[Asia8]

You are right, I would be pissed that it worked only on Euro freq's. And to show how pissed I was, I wouldn't buy it. I WOULD NOT throw a temper tantrum, and sue Apple for not making a U.S. version.

I know this because I haven't sued game makers for not making an American version of a game, amateur radio manufacturing companies for not manufacturing a U.S. version, etc...

No, attacking someone for technical incompatibility, after NONE was promised (at least I haven't found anything that says, "works with Australian 4G"), and customers didn't do a little due diligence before purchase of a product... file it under stoopid REGARDLESS of where the court is.

And for the record, I love Australia. I had the pleasure of interacting with some Australian Spec Forces once. Those are some crazy bastards.

I think you're missing the point, no one is throwing a temper tantrum, Australians aren't making a big fuss over this, it seems to be mostly Americans who are upset about this.

It's not that people are sueing apple over this, or are upset, apple broke Australian law and got fined, they took it to court to try and be able to continue misleading advertising and they lost. No one was suing apple, apple took up a legal case after they broke the law, they lost and paid the consequences.

Marketing of products in Australia can not be misleading, it has to be appropriate to the Australian market. Australia doesn't care about whether a product has compatibility with the USA version of 4G, because that's not Australia. The product is being marketed in Australia, for Australians as a 4G product. If it's not 4G compatible in Australia and is being advertised as a 4G compatible device without very specificly saying that it's only compatible with US + Canadian 4G services than it's considered misleading.

It's simple, if you don't want to be fined, don't break the law. If you don't want to lose more money, don't take up a court case against the consumer protection agency when you've clearly, with no grey areas, broken the law.

----------

I also get a kick out of how you call everything a "burger" even if it's chicken. And how all toppings are "salads".

The first time I went to an Australian Subway, the lady asked me "What salads?" and I was like, "No, uh, I don't want a salad I... ohhhhh"

Erm? I don't know where you're from, but in all countries I've been to burger refers to the bread style used to hold the contents together.

Salad is usually simply a mix of raw fresh vegetables.