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Apple Faces First Italian DMA Probe on iCloud Interoperability
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ProbablyDylan
macrumors 68040
Just encrypt whatever gets uploaded on the device side, like how the existing Advanced Data Protection already works.
Whatever host the user picks would just see gobbledygook.
surferfb
macrumors 68030
Apple doesn’t have a monopoly, as you yourself say, you use Android because of the restrictions Apple has instituted on its platform (for reasons many find perfectly valid that aren’t “they’re being anticompetitive”). If you don’t like Apple’s approach, you’re welcome to choose an alternative, as over 75% of EU users have.
I don’t get the jab about 2026? Like this is something out dated? Having a NAS in 2026 is more popular than it has ever been in the history of NAS.
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
The entire “argument” is mostly a strawman fallacy. So if some believe it is well reasoned, then let the strawman argument reign supreme.
surferfb
macrumors 68030
I really think the lock-in argument is overthinking it. Practically speaking, no one would use this. Which means they’re not actually locking in people to iCloud by not offering it.
From the broadest perspective, Apple’s calculus on “features for power users that create support/security complexity” always comes out against implementation of those features. And sure, that does often align with their business interests, but with these sorts of things there are real security and technical support concerns that you can’t just wave away and say “it’s just about the money.” As I often say on here, two things can be true at the same time - something can be better for most of Apple’s users AND it’s better for Apple’s bottom line.
Are there solutions to many of the security and support concerns? Sure. But why should Apple dedicate engineering resources to support something that 1) hardly anyone will use 2) they’d prefer users not do anyway and 3) has a real chance of introducing security or just “oops bricked the phone” issues if not done properly?
The trap people on MacRumors fall into over and over again is looking at Apple’s decisions through the lens of our own comfort level with technology - we’re power users who are technically savvy and know what we’re doing. That’s not Apple’s target customer (and never has been). People buy Apple products because of their reputation for being easy to use and “just working.”
Adding multiple options, forcing Apple to integrate with competitors and the like makes products more confusing to use and introduces failure modes Apple doesn’t control. It also adds complexity that goes against Apple’s brand promise of simplicity. So they oppose that sort of thing because it goes against their philosophy of how computers should work.
I really don’t think it’s conspiracy or anti-competitive behavior; it’s an extension of Apple’s longstanding (and coherent) philosophy that happens to often frustrate people many people who post on sites like MacRumors. We are genuinely not the customer they’re optimizing for, and the billions of people who are seem pretty happy with the tradeoff.
And it’s worth remembering that this philosophy has always been a part of Apple’s DNA. “Don’t let users back up to any random provider” is exactly the type of restriction Steve would have imposed if cloud backup had been a thing back when Michael Dell was telling people Apple should give the shareholders their money back.
From the broadest perspective, Apple’s calculus on “features for power users that create support/security complexity” always comes out against implementation of those features. And sure, that does often align with their business interests, but with these sorts of things there are real security and technical support concerns that you can’t just wave away and say “it’s just about the money.” As I often say on here, two things can be true at the same time - something can be better for most of Apple’s users AND it’s better for Apple’s bottom line.
Are there solutions to many of the security and support concerns? Sure. But why should Apple dedicate engineering resources to support something that 1) hardly anyone will use 2) they’d prefer users not do anyway and 3) has a real chance of introducing security or just “oops bricked the phone” issues if not done properly?
The trap people on MacRumors fall into over and over again is looking at Apple’s decisions through the lens of our own comfort level with technology - we’re power users who are technically savvy and know what we’re doing. That’s not Apple’s target customer (and never has been). People buy Apple products because of their reputation for being easy to use and “just working.”
Adding multiple options, forcing Apple to integrate with competitors and the like makes products more confusing to use and introduces failure modes Apple doesn’t control. It also adds complexity that goes against Apple’s brand promise of simplicity. So they oppose that sort of thing because it goes against their philosophy of how computers should work.
I really don’t think it’s conspiracy or anti-competitive behavior; it’s an extension of Apple’s longstanding (and coherent) philosophy that happens to often frustrate people many people who post on sites like MacRumors. We are genuinely not the customer they’re optimizing for, and the billions of people who are seem pretty happy with the tradeoff.
And it’s worth remembering that this philosophy has always been a part of Apple’s DNA. “Don’t let users back up to any random provider” is exactly the type of restriction Steve would have imposed if cloud backup had been a thing back when Michael Dell was telling people Apple should give the shareholders their money back.
uacd
macrumors 68000
This button. It exists in every OS to safely stop the operation of any drive, be it SSD, HDD, floppy, CD or flash device.
What it does exactly is that it stops the flow of power to the data storage device, so all the data is safely stored and no errors appear.
Frequent “force eject” without clicking on that first is very harmful for USB devices and can render them non-functional within less than half a year.
And Apple still has no such option in Files app in iOS. They don’t really care about our USB devices and that is particularly sad. They say “trust me bro” when it comes to data storage safety and that “modern USB devices handle hard eject just fine”, but what if I have old USB devices that don’t have those safety measures, like ancient HDDs that have some old info?
I’m tired of this DMA nonsense.
Let Apple be Apple. I’m buying their devices PRECISELY because of how they work and their specific tradeoffs (privacy, security, performance, ease of use vs. “interoperability”).
If you care about “interoperability” (oh you really want to save those $3/month, don’t you…) buy ****ing Android or Huawei or whatever unbelievably open (and broken) product you like.
EU bureaucrats are computer-illiterate clowns that are only good at solemn sounding speeches about users privacy and fair markets. They are too dumb to realize that imposing such rules is only going to damage the users in the long run, especially on privacy and competitiveness grounds. Not to mention the damage to political relationships with other countries (where do you think Trump’s ideas for tariffs came from?).
Let Apple users enjoy Apple products. **** the DMA.
Written by an Italian citizen that loves Apple products.
Let Apple be Apple. I’m buying their devices PRECISELY because of how they work and their specific tradeoffs (privacy, security, performance, ease of use vs. “interoperability”).
If you care about “interoperability” (oh you really want to save those $3/month, don’t you…) buy ****ing Android or Huawei or whatever unbelievably open (and broken) product you like.
EU bureaucrats are computer-illiterate clowns that are only good at solemn sounding speeches about users privacy and fair markets. They are too dumb to realize that imposing such rules is only going to damage the users in the long run, especially on privacy and competitiveness grounds. Not to mention the damage to political relationships with other countries (where do you think Trump’s ideas for tariffs came from?).
Let Apple users enjoy Apple products. **** the DMA.
Written by an Italian citizen that loves Apple products.
I now remember that you misinterpret arguments, and twist them.
On a broader note, there seems to be a lot of arrogance on here, implying that regular users aren't as tech savvy as they are here, and that Tim needs to personally hold their hand. If iOS encrypted backups before uploading to third party clouds, then where's the security risk? It's pretty much just a case of where to place the backup file.
I've said this before, and I will say this again, they are not banning Apple services, or forcing you to use a third party service.
So your argument is consumers should have the freedom to choose between iOS and Android, but are too stupid to choose where they back up their data.
"People should or don’t choose backup to iCloud. Or you can roll your own." - you can't, which is why there's a probe.
I notice that if you disagree with anything, and you don't have a counter arguement you claim strawman.
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
No, you can and people do.
When there is a straw man I’ll call it out. And when someone agrees with a strawman, I’ll call that out as well.
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
My argument is that iCloud is a Apple proprietary product but Apple should provide hold for photos and messages.
Samplasion
macrumors 6502a
Then you can move outside the EU, if you haven't already. It's not like the EU has a monopoly over the world anyways...
The cycle:
- the EU is evil for bullying companies
- Companies begrudgingly comply
- Consumers rejoice
We saw it with roaming tariffs, USB-C adoption, 14 days cooling off period for online purchases, 2 year warranty, travel protections, …
There are two reasons for the backlash: greedy companies and politic movements who see a strong EU as a threat.
- the EU is evil for bullying companies
- Companies begrudgingly comply
- Consumers rejoice
We saw it with roaming tariffs, USB-C adoption, 14 days cooling off period for online purchases, 2 year warranty, travel protections, …
There are two reasons for the backlash: greedy companies and politic movements who see a strong EU as a threat.
Impressive strategy.
Why would you treat a headache when you can just cut off your own head?
I don't understand the EU mania to make all products homogenous and interchangeable. Yes, that makes a field perfectly competitive, but it stifles innovation. German beer is too good, can we force them to use recipe for Miller lite instead so that American swill can compete? Can we sanction Belgium for having good Pommes Frites and force them to use In-n-Out's recipe? What about cars? Can we force all European cars to be made to GM standards? It might hurt the Germans, but it sure would help the French and Italians, plus your Ferrari would have OnStar.
Samplasion
macrumors 6502a
Using Android is an option. Apple makes using Android unintuitive? And using Android gives Apple additional income?
zarmanto
macrumors 65816
I don't know if anyone has actually tried to put all of it together -- but it occurs to me that (technically) you probably can do this. It would be an involved process -- but we're talking about replacing an entire commercial service, so that should come as no surprise. The steps, as I see it, would include at least the following:
- Setup a computer front end to take the place of the iCloud service itself,
- If it's running Windows, you'll need to download and install the appropriate sync software from Apple or a third party, but if it's a Mac, you shouldn't need to install anything.
- Configure an iOS VPN to tunnel your iPhone into your home network, and adjust the VPN settings to enable "LAN Discovery",
- optional if you only want to sync when you're at home
- Connect the iPhone to the computer via USB, open the Sync window, and toggle on Sync over WiFi
- which should apply to the VPN use case as well, even though it's not technically a WiFi connection
- Mount a drive from your NAS on the computer, and add a sym link to the appropriate storage location on the computer to reroute your backups to the NAS.
And, the EU’s free to adopt a similar model! Difference is, while China has fostered tech companies that can do this sort of thing in their country, the EU drove out all the companies that could have done this for them. So, they’re stuck begging non-EU companies to do their bidding.
All those things come at a cost. A cost that is ultimately sustained by the people that use the products and services.
Also, you cherry-picked the less controversial. What about the stupid cookie banners that have infected the internet like a plague? What about the fake jobs that were created just to make sure that companies were GDPR-compliant? What about chat control???
They do already block many non-Apple websites, that’s nothing new. And, if Safari blocked a site I wanted to go to? Well, guess I’d be stuck as… just kidding, I’d choose to use a different browser. Lot of folks don’t like making choices apparently.
What monopolistic power is this? As the EU has not designated Apple as a monopoly. They designated them a Gatekeeper, but that’s because there’s no definition of monopoly in the EU legal framework that would fit Apple.