Apple Faces Yet Another Class Action Lawsuit Over 'Secretly Throttling' Older iPhones

[I7guy]

This has been described in detail numerous times. Often in direct response to you claiming ********....

Right so basically when a battery ages and is unable to provide the peak current something has to give. This will happen to every battery sooner or later and it happens in android also, except that android shuts down.

I’ve already said Apple could have handled this better. And as one of the affected ones, to my personal opinion, this was a non-issue to me. But YMMV.

 

[chatin]

Still running iOS 12 to avoid the throttle on my 8 Plus. Fast as new.

 

[ROGmaster]

It's not difficult, provided you rely on actual customer accounts of what happened on their phones rather than reading too much into an Apple release blurb. Not to mention Apple
.

Be serious man, now you are trying to convince me Apple was incoherent after they acknowledged and tried to fix the situation instead of simply admitting that you were wrong. Absolutely incredible.

Because shutdown issues have happened on other models but due to actual faulty batteries rather than the design issue that happened on the iPhone 6 series.

OK, it's irrelevant to make this mention. You can at least admit as much no?

 

[SheeerZ]

The so called geniuses at my local Apple store told my sister in law that they recommend a new phone as hers was slowing up and they did not mention anything about battery replacement, luckily she refused a new phone and got a new battery after talking to me. My 6S Maximum Capacity in the battery health in settings has been at 81% for the past 2 years funny how it won't creep below the 80% mark even though my battery is dead if i use it for 30 mins. Apple have been running the battery scam for years and years and I hope they lose all these cases.

I doubt it was geniuses... Most likely it was the FRS's that were talking to your sister but I get what you mean. Normally they should've ran a diagnostic which would show the battery health of the phone so if they overlooked it than that is there fault for sure.

 

[libertysat]

I think the only 2 things Apple did wrong was fail to inform us what & why it enabled the feature.
And to provide a toggle to turn it on/off

Otherwise this is BS in my opinion

 

[BootsWalking]

Be serious man, now you are trying to convince me Apple was incoherent after they acknowledged and tried to fix the situation instead of simply admitting that you were wrong. Absolutely incredible.

Apple's not incoherent. But they have a long history of misleading their users on this issue so I'm not sure why you persist on believing a blurb in their release notes over actual user experiences.

 

[ROGmaster]

Apple's not incoherent. But they have a long history of misleading their users on this issue so I'm not sure why you persist on believing a blurb in their release notes over actual user experiences.

When did they mislead their users after they were caught and they were trying to fix the situation?
Also unlike with the iphone 6 and 6s Apple pushed the throttling update to the iphone 7 before people stated to have serious shutdown problems so that's why we haven't seen widespread reports with iphone 7's randomly turning off. This is very basic logic.

I'm not sure why you persist on believing a blurb

Well nobody knows it's hardware and software better than apple so if they say that the iphone 7 and SE have the same battery problem the iphone 6 and 6s have there's no reason not to believe them. It's not like it helps them in any way the fact that they admit this, they are not doing themselves a favor so why would they lie about it?
Like they admitted that only starting with the iphone 8 and X they implemented a more advanced battery management system both at the SOC and software level so the phones can be throttled based on the situation(battery level or specific apps being used) and not globally like on their previews iphones, kind of like it works on Android for example.

 

[manu chao]

Still running iOS 12 to avoid the throttle on my 8 Plus. Fast as new.

You do realise that iOS 12 is the most current version of iOS?
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Do you understand, phones would power off with 80% battery level remaining. Or 50, or 63, or 26, all different ranges throughout the day. And the ONLY way to get them to power back on was to plug it into a wall and charger. Then it would come back on. Otherwise all you could do was see the battery charge image on a black screen.

MILLIONS of phones did this. They were defective and rather than admit this and recall, Apple tried throttling to such a degree that it avoided the shutdowns (and prompted upgrades).

How do you differentiate between a lousy design and a defective product?

 

[Lancer]

So do these individuals want a less stable iPhone, one they just doesn't work and the battery dies in a few hours or one that actually works?

We all know as batteries get older they don't work as well, couple that with new versions of iOS and apps there becomes a point where an iPhone will not work. its still much better than the Android system and much more secure.

 

[laz232]

Pretty sure this has been debunked as hyperbole.

As a electronics design professional I disagree.*

I think there is plenty of indication that the use batteries with relatively poor lifetimes is a strategic decision to push yearly upgrades, and although never spelled out, I would not be surprised if this lack of attention to this aspect is willful as part of planned obsolesnce. Macbooks are not subject to the same yearly cycle and are also << smaller profit center for Apple, there is no need for similar shenanigans on the computer side of things.

Tim Cook on why iPhone sales were lower than expected:
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/01/letter-from-tim-cook-to-apple-investors/

"iPhone upgrades also were not as strong as we thought they would be. […] customers taking advantage of significantly reduced pricing for iPhone battery replacements. "


*I will add to this that although the battery capacity is still at ~90% with 350 cycles according to Coconut, my iPhone SE had a power shutdown event at 20% capacity this morning whilst I was out running (temperature outside about 16C), and yes, battery throttling is enabled.
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So do these individuals want a less stable iPhone, one they just doesn't work and the battery dies in a few hours or one that actually works?

We all know as batteries get older they don't work as well, couple that with new versions of iOS and apps there becomes a point where an iPhone will not work. its still much better than the Android system and much more secure.

We would like iPhones with high quality batteries that degrade less, don't need a SW "hack" to overcome the battery flaws due to the use of lower quality (cheaper) components.

I would also like battery replacements to cost less than the 125USD that Apple charges for a replacement in my country.

Then we would start to progress to a sustainable society, but that would stop the yearly iPhone churn, so Apple has little incentive to do this. They will probably start to turn around though, but make up for it (in their bottom line) by charging 2 grand for a phone...

 

[I7guy]

As a electronics design professional I disagree.*

I think there is plenty of indication that the use batteries with relatively poor lifetimes is a strategic decision to push yearly upgrades, and although never spelled out, I would not be surprised if this lack of attention to this aspect is willful as part of planned obsolesnce. Macbooks are not subject to the same yearly cycle and are also << smaller profit center for Apple, there is no need for similar shenanigans on the computer side of things.

Do you have a citation for your opinion, or is this just an opinion?

Tim Cook on why iPhone sales were lower than expected:
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/01/letter-from-tim-cook-to-apple-investors/

"iPhone upgrades also were not as strong as we thought they would be. […] customers taking advantage of significantly reduced pricing for iPhone battery replacements. "


*I will add to this that although the battery capacity is still at ~90% with 350 cycles according to Coconut, my iPhone SE had a power shutdown event at 20% capacity this morning whilst I was out running (temperature outside about 16C), and yes, battery throttling is enabled....

Yes, I have read it, but what does sales have to do with the premise of you assertion? I took advantage of the $29 also, but Apple replaced my batteries in two phones for free. Alas, three months later the 7 passed away and was replaced with an xr.

 

[laz232]

Do you have a citation for your opinion, or is this just an opinion?


Yes, I have read it, but what does sales have to do with the premise of you assertion? I took advantage of the $29 also, but Apple replaced my batteries in two phones for free. Alas, three months later the 7 passed away and was replaced with an xr.

Do you have a citation for your opinion, or is this just an opinion?


Yes, I have read it, but what does sales have to do with the premise of you assertion? I took advantage of the $29 also, but Apple replaced my batteries in two phones for free. Alas, three months later the 7 passed away and was replaced with an xr.

My (professional) opinion. Due do the process of "discovery" in lawsuits, paper (email) trails are now avoided vociferously.
"what does sales have to do with the premise of you assertion?"

TC gave guidance stating that sales are down down to the replacement program: i.e. people keep their devices longer when the batteries don't suddenly die on them at 30% charge or when their CPU performance gets throttled by 40%.
No doubt more people would keep on to their phones if the 29USD (50USD in my country) battery pricing was standard, or if the batteries lasted longer (in terms of cycle life), which is the main part of my argument: high quality, long life batteries are not in Apple's financial interest.

 

[I7guy]

My (professional) opinion. Due do the process of "discovery" in lawsuits, paper (email) trails are now avoided vociferously.
"what does sales have to do with the premise of you assertion?"

TC gave guidance stating that sales are down down to the replacement program: i.e. people keep their devices longer when the batteries don't suddenly die on them at 30% charge or when their CPU performance gets throttled by 40%.
No doubt more people would keep on to their phones if the 29USD (50USD in my country) battery pricing was standard, or if the batteries lasted longer (in terms of cycle life), which is the main part of my argument: high quality, long life batteries are not in Apple's financial interest.

I’m not disagreeing but wondering what the connection of sales in relation to your assertion.
1. Professional opinion...Apple used low quality batteries
2. Apple started a battery replacement program to replace low quality batteries
3 ergo...sales were down

Is that what you are saying g?

 

[manu chao]

I think there is plenty of indication that the use batteries with relatively poor lifetimes is a strategic decision to push yearly upgrades, and although never spelled out, I would not be surprised if this lack of attention to this aspect is willful as part of planned obsolesnce.

Really? Has anybody ever done a technical analysis of their batteries that confirmed this speculation of yours?

I know a lot of people always have to think that everything happens because it is part of some bigger plan, that the idea that a lot of crap just happens as an uncontrolled reaction of a complex system due to uncoordinated inputs let's them despair at the universe. But that is nothing but a coping mechanism of the human brain that you either let drive your thinking or accept as a distraction to best be ignored.

 

[loopy123]

Not sure “secretly throttled” needs to be in quotes. They didn’t tell anyone, right? So that’s the definition of a secret. They did slow them down, right? So that pretty much meets the definition of throttled right there.

No! I was not a secret. It was announced in the iOS 10.2.1 release notes. Perhaps not as clearly as some might like, but they did announce it.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208011#1021

 

[steve62388]

No! I was not a secret. It was announced in the iOS 10.2.1 release notes. Perhaps not as clearly as some might like, but they did announce it.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208011#1021

The notes were retrospectively changed.

 

[interessiert]

Usually I'm against these frivolous class actions, but SOMETHING is going on with older phones. I know my experience is anecdotal, but my 6s was recently running fine until iOS 12.31 (now on 12.4) and all of a sudden my battery is draining super fast. Battery was replaced by Apple less than two years ago, and battery health reports at 88%. This is without any change in my app/usage habits.

They keep doing something that negatively effects the battery performance of my older phone, and it's really pissing me off.

The clear reason for shorter battery time:
Because of the Qualcomm court cases Apple took away some of the Qualcomm patent features infringing patent law. These software features reduced electricity consumption (aside others e.g. features for faster search in Notices or Mail).

That's why since one of the earliest iOS 12.x the battery time is shortened obviously between 40% up to 60%, depending on the way of use. (Also the other functions became respectably worse...).

The scandal is, that Apple made an agreement with QUALCOMM – but as it seems just for the newer iPhone not the older ones (6/6s, 7, 8 and corresponding Plus versions). This is the famous Apple customer friendliness and best service. They hope we all buy new ones – right?!

This I wrote 19.05.13:
I wait till this "battery gate" is driven to surface – a big wave...
So we understand better the motive for Apple for the battery replacement program of 2018 and this advertising finally is pure cynicism of Apple company against customers... Ugly

 

[Neepman]

There is no way on this earth (or in the galaxy) you will ever be able to convince me that apple does not gimp out older iOS devices. About a billion ways to do it and unless there is a smoking gun internal communication or a turncoat engineer comes clean, we would never know.

 

[Altis]

Do you have a citation for your opinion, or is this just an opinion?

Really? Has anybody ever done a technical analysis of their batteries that confirmed this speculation of yours?

The proof is plain to see: Apple was heavily throttling devices with "healthy" batteries that they would not replace even at consumer expense.

If the device has to go into limp mode and not run as designed due to battery while the battery is "healthy", then there is a clear problem with the design.

I know a lot of people always have to think that everything happens because it is part of some bigger plan, that the idea that a lot of crap just happens as an uncontrolled reaction of a complex system due to uncoordinated inputs let's them despair at the universe. But that is nothing but a coping mechanism of the human brain that you either let drive your thinking or accept as a distraction to best be ignored.

By contrast, there are people who will defend such dirty practices and try to deny them existing, either due to willful ignorance or financial interest (cough.. shareholders).

It's easy and cheap to try to belittle valid and evidence-based concerns, to bully those who speak up into silence. Now you're trying to make it look like they're victim to a psychological failing.

But let's put it like this: if Apple did not think that what they did would lead to increased sales as they secretly knee-capped countless devices, while covering the fact that the battery was unable to meet the power needs to operate the device normally while pretending the battery is "healthy" -- then they would have to be incredibly incompetent.

 

[I7guy]

The proof is plain to see: Apple was heavily throttling devices with "healthy" batteries that they would not replace even at consumer expense.

If the device has to go into limp mode and not run as designed due to battery while the battery is "healthy", then there is a clear problem with the design.



By contrast, there are people who will defend such dirty practices and try to deny them existing, either due to willful ignorance or financial interest (cough.. shareholders).

It's easy and cheap to try to belittle valid and evidence-based concerns, to bully those who speak up into silence. Now you're trying to make it look like they're victim to a psychological failing.

But let's put it like this: if Apple did not think that what they did would lead to increased sales as they secretly knee-capped countless devices, while covering the fact that the battery was unable to meet the power needs to operate the device normally while pretending the battery is "healthy" -- then they would have to be incredibly incompetent.

That “proof” sets a low bar for what proof is. What is a healthy battery and how does one know the battery is “healthy”, does the cycle count prove the battery is healthy. Maybe the battery was subject to excess heat and it degraded. Don’t think a general answer will answer that.

 

[Altis]

That “proof” sets a low bar for what proof is. What is a healthy battery and how does one know the battery is “healthy”, does the cycle count prove the battery is healthy. Maybe the battery was subject to excess heat and it degraded. Don’t think a general answer will answer that.

Apple has their own diagnostics to determine if the battery is "Healthy". If it is, they refused to replace it, even at customer expense.

Yet the device had to be severely throttled due to poor battery performance.

In what world can you consider the battery "healthy" if the device cannot operate normally due to poor battery? Don't worry -- I'm sure your shares will survive.

 

[I7guy]

Apple has their own diagnostics to determine if the battery is "Healthy". If it is, they refused to replace it, even at customer expense.

Yet the device had to be severely throttled due to poor battery performance.

In what world can you consider the battery "healthy" if the device cannot operate normally due to poor battery? Don't worry -- I'm sure your shares will survive.

This entire ship has sailed and sailed and the horse put out mercilessly. Apple could have handled this better. We will see how the lawsuits make out. (Believe me I’m not worried about the stock price)

 

[chatin]

You do realise that iOS 12 is the most current version of iOS?

12.1 Throttles iPhone 8 and plus.

 

[manu chao]

12.1 Throttles iPhone 8 and plus.

And 12.2 (or 12.3 ?) adds the option to switch off that throttling.
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The proof is plain to see: Apple was heavily throttling devices with "healthy" batteries that they would not replace even at consumer expense.

And given how evil they are and how much they want to push you towards upgrading, they did the same with all iPhone models before the iPhone 6. Or wait, that only came with iOS 12.1 .... Hm, something must be wrong with that theory.

 

[TracesOfArsenic]

Usually I'm against these frivolous class actions, but SOMETHING is going on with older phones. I know my experience is anecdotal, but my 6s was recently running fine until iOS 12.31 (now on 12.4) and all of a sudden my battery is draining super fast. Battery was replaced by Apple less than two years ago, and battery health reports at 88%. This is without any change in my app/usage habits.

They keep doing something that negatively effects the battery performance of my older phone, and it's really pissing me off.

Dude, same phone, same experience (although my battery is 83%). It was night and day after the update.